Knicks · Welcome Ron Baker . . . (page 2)

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Sorry everyone . . . but this just KILLS me.

All of this supposed sex appeal of Rose and Jennings because they have
quickness and can "break down" the defense by going to the basket.

SCREW that (!)

15 guys playing like Noah and Vujacic and Baker is what I want to see (!)

so, not for nothing, but I think the long term in-season plan is for Rose to play just like Baker but with the added athleticism etc. That's the coach's job.

that's the coach's job? what if the player in question is not particularly coachable?

rose doesn't have the bbiq to do what baker does, nor the jump shot to do what baker does, nor the court vision to do what baker does. the game clearly is slowing down for baker, while it will never slow down for rose.

The way Rose will be used is not like a Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr or Fisher. This offense is much more of a fit for what Rose does well.

nixluva, to quote orange hitler: WRONG!! NO!!!

You're gonna have to prove your point in this case! Why is Hornacek's Offense not a better fit for Rose than a Pure Triangle?

you are tail wagging the dog on that question. do you see what you did there? please say yes.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Sorry everyone . . . but this just KILLS me.

All of this supposed sex appeal of Rose and Jennings because they have
quickness and can "break down" the defense by going to the basket.

SCREW that (!)

15 guys playing like Noah and Vujacic and Baker is what I want to see (!)

so, not for nothing, but I think the long term in-season plan is for Rose to play just like Baker but with the added athleticism etc. That's the coach's job.

that's the coach's job? what if the player in question is not particularly coachable?

rose doesn't have the bbiq to do what baker does, nor the jump shot to do what baker does, nor the court vision to do what baker does. the game clearly is slowing down for baker, while it will never slow down for rose.

The way Rose will be used is not like a Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr or Fisher. This offense is much more of a fit for what Rose does well.

nixluva, to quote orange hitler: WRONG!! NO!!!

You're gonna have to prove your point in this case! Why is Hornacek's Offense not a better fit for Rose than a Pure Triangle?

From Rose

Derrick Rose is confident he’ll easily pick up Jeff Hornacek’s reduced triangle.

With only two more full practices before the season opener in Cleveland, Rose outlined how Phil Jackson’s system has been removed from New York’s open offense – and therefore less complicated to learn despite being absent for over two weeks.

“We're running an up tempo type of game. On out of bounds plays, that's when we're throwing in the triangle,” he said. “On just dead balls, so it's very simple.”

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Sorry everyone . . . but this just KILLS me.

All of this supposed sex appeal of Rose and Jennings because they have
quickness and can "break down" the defense by going to the basket.

SCREW that (!)

15 guys playing like Noah and Vujacic and Baker is what I want to see (!)

so, not for nothing, but I think the long term in-season plan is for Rose to play just like Baker but with the added athleticism etc. That's the coach's job.

that's the coach's job? what if the player in question is not particularly coachable?

rose doesn't have the bbiq to do what baker does, nor the jump shot to do what baker does, nor the court vision to do what baker does. the game clearly is slowing down for baker, while it will never slow down for rose.

The way Rose will be used is not like a Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr or Fisher. This offense is much more of a fit for what Rose does well.

nixluva, to quote orange hitler: WRONG!! NO!!!

You're gonna have to prove your point in this case! Why is Hornacek's Offense not a better fit for Rose than a Pure Triangle?

From Rose

Derrick Rose is confident he’ll easily pick up Jeff Hornacek’s reduced triangle.

With only two more full practices before the season opener in Cleveland, Rose outlined how Phil Jackson’s system has been removed from New York’s open offense – and therefore less complicated to learn despite being absent for over two weeks.

“We're running an up tempo type of game. On out of bounds plays, that's when we're throwing in the triangle,” he said. “On just dead balls, so it's very simple.”

THANKS CRUSH!!! Wasn't this the entire point of bringing in Hornacek???

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Sorry everyone . . . but this just KILLS me.

All of this supposed sex appeal of Rose and Jennings because they have
quickness and can "break down" the defense by going to the basket.

SCREW that (!)

15 guys playing like Noah and Vujacic and Baker is what I want to see (!)

so, not for nothing, but I think the long term in-season plan is for Rose to play just like Baker but with the added athleticism etc. That's the coach's job.

that's the coach's job? what if the player in question is not particularly coachable?

rose doesn't have the bbiq to do what baker does, nor the jump shot to do what baker does, nor the court vision to do what baker does. the game clearly is slowing down for baker, while it will never slow down for rose.

The way Rose will be used is not like a Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr or Fisher. This offense is much more of a fit for what Rose does well.

nixluva, to quote orange hitler: WRONG!! NO!!!

You're gonna have to prove your point in this case! Why is Hornacek's Offense not a better fit for Rose than a Pure Triangle?

From Rose

Derrick Rose is confident he’ll easily pick up Jeff Hornacek’s reduced triangle.

With only two more full practices before the season opener in Cleveland, Rose outlined how Phil Jackson’s system has been removed from New York’s open offense – and therefore less complicated to learn despite being absent for over two weeks.

“We're running an up tempo type of game. On out of bounds plays, that's when we're throwing in the triangle,” he said. “On just dead balls, so it's very simple.”

THANKS CRUSH!!! Wasn't this the entire point of bringing in Hornacek???

Okay, I'll concede this, if you insist.

"Out of bounds plays" . . . are 50% of each game.

So Rose and the Knicks will only suck from incompetence in
the Triangle . . . 50% of the time.

There. Are you satisfied (?)

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Sorry everyone . . . but this just KILLS me.

All of this supposed sex appeal of Rose and Jennings because they have
quickness and can "break down" the defense by going to the basket.

SCREW that (!)

15 guys playing like Noah and Vujacic and Baker is what I want to see (!)

so, not for nothing, but I think the long term in-season plan is for Rose to play just like Baker but with the added athleticism etc. That's the coach's job.

that's the coach's job? what if the player in question is not particularly coachable?

rose doesn't have the bbiq to do what baker does, nor the jump shot to do what baker does, nor the court vision to do what baker does. the game clearly is slowing down for baker, while it will never slow down for rose.

The way Rose will be used is not like a Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr or Fisher. This offense is much more of a fit for what Rose does well.

nixluva, to quote orange hitler: WRONG!! NO!!!

You're gonna have to prove your point in this case! Why is Hornacek's Offense not a better fit for Rose than a Pure Triangle?

From Rose

Derrick Rose is confident he’ll easily pick up Jeff Hornacek’s reduced triangle.

With only two more full practices before the season opener in Cleveland, Rose outlined how Phil Jackson’s system has been removed from New York’s open offense – and therefore less complicated to learn despite being absent for over two weeks.

“We're running an up tempo type of game. On out of bounds plays, that's when we're throwing in the triangle,” he said. “On just dead balls, so it's very simple.”

THANKS CRUSH!!! Wasn't this the entire point of bringing in Hornacek???

Okay, I'll concede this, if you insist.

"Out of bounds plays" . . . are 50% of each game.

So Rose and the Knicks will only suck from incompetence in
the Triangle . . . 50% of the time.

There. Are you satisfied (?)

Good answer, Malcolm . . .

Malcolm wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

Malcolm wrote:Sorry everyone . . . but this just KILLS me.

All of this supposed sex appeal of Rose and Jennings because they have
quickness and can "break down" the defense by going to the basket.

SCREW that (!)

15 guys playing like Noah and Vujacic and Baker is what I want to see (!)

so, not for nothing, but I think the long term in-season plan is for Rose to play just like Baker but with the added athleticism etc. That's the coach's job.

that's the coach's job? what if the player in question is not particularly coachable?

rose doesn't have the bbiq to do what baker does, nor the jump shot to do what baker does, nor the court vision to do what baker does. the game clearly is slowing down for baker, while it will never slow down for rose.

The way Rose will be used is not like a Paxton, Armstrong, Kerr or Fisher. This offense is much more of a fit for what Rose does well.

nixluva, to quote orange hitler: WRONG!! NO!!!

You're gonna have to prove your point in this case! Why is Hornacek's Offense not a better fit for Rose than a Pure Triangle?

From Rose

Derrick Rose is confident he’ll easily pick up Jeff Hornacek’s reduced triangle.

With only two more full practices before the season opener in Cleveland, Rose outlined how Phil Jackson’s system has been removed from New York’s open offense – and therefore less complicated to learn despite being absent for over two weeks.

“We're running an up tempo type of game. On out of bounds plays, that's when we're throwing in the triangle,” he said. “On just dead balls, so it's very simple.”

THANKS CRUSH!!! Wasn't this the entire point of bringing in Hornacek???

Okay, I'll concede this, if you insist.

"Out of bounds plays" . . . are 50% of each game.

So Rose and the Knicks will only suck from incompetence in
the Triangle . . . 50% of the time.

There. Are you satisfied (?)

Just because Rose may not be GREAT running the Triangle doesn't mean the Knicks will suck running it. Exactly what do you think Rose is going to do that would mess it up so much that the Knicks would "suck from incompetence"?

The Triangle isn't about one player!!! So this notion that Rose would somehow "torpedo" the offense when they run Side Triangle seems a bit overstated. The PG in Side Triangle is not the focal point of the action. The Post player is the focal point. If Rose feeds the post and cuts to the corner as is normally how a side Triangle goes he's not likely to mess anything up doing that. If Rose ends up in a Pinch Post look he's in a 2 man game where he is used to running that kind of action. The hardest part is the read coming up the floor before the "moment of truth".

The moment of truth is the moment when the ball handler pushing the ball encounters defensive pressure . Therefore, the triangle calls the "line of truth" the imaginary line across the floor three feet in front of the defensive player guarding the ball handler.

http://thetriangleoffense.blogspot.com/2...

Rose has played one preseason game in total so far for the Knicks. How are there conclusions on Rose triangle *struggles*. Is this just educated guessing?

Regardless JH wants to push the ball and push the pace as well as get penitration into the lane. Rose will excellent at those areas and offers balance.

Good for "Meatballs"!

welcome to the team...

i always liked his grit and toughness at wichita st. i think hard working individuals should be rewarded

with that said i hope he never gets to see meaningful minutes. if that happens that means something went terribly wrong

Very pleased, but not surprised about Baker making the team. As far as I know, he might have been the first undrafted FA in the NBA after the past draft ended. There had to be some in the organization who really like him...we were just lucky that he wasn't drafted, because he should have been.

Slow start in SL, but you could clearly see he had game, and as the SL went on, he seemed more comfortable. He also seemed to hold his own in the pre-season games I saw.

Guy is just a tough heady player who has an idea about how to play on both sides of the court. Perfect glue guy from what I have seen, and a much better passer than I was expecting to see when we drafted him.

Happy we kept him.

Baker is your prototype gym rat who seems increasingly at ease on the court He can shoot the J but has superior instincts passing well before the D reacts. He will probably be in the rotation and should be. He's also strong and is just fast enough to play some hard nosed D. Now when John Wall comes flying by we will find out how good his D is but then again Jennings and Rosenwill play matador D as well. I can see Lee Thomas NDour run with Kp and Noah and shutting teams down. Guess that why they kept Holiday as well. Rose/Melo/Kuz and Jennings are offensive players essentially while OQuinn Plumlee and Willy H will bang but are not defined by either their offensive or defensive prowess yet.

callmened wrote:welcome to the team...

i always liked his grit and toughness at wichita st. i think hard working individuals should be rewarded

with that said i hope he never gets to see meaningful minutes. if that happens that means something went terribly wrong

what do you have in mind?

WaltLongmire wrote:...we were just lucky that he wasn't drafted, because he should have been.

I'm not sure that's true.

This is what Knicks need to take advantage of: just as there are lots of
players that are useless in the Triangle . . . there are some players that
are only useful in the Triangle.

Baker may be someone who isn't competitive in the NBA in general . . . but
who's great in the Triangle.

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:welcome to the team...

i always liked his grit and toughness at wichita st. i think hard working individuals should be rewarded

with that said i hope he never gets to see meaningful minutes. if that happens that means something went terribly wrong

what do you have in mind?

nothing against him. if the 15th man on any team is getting significant mins, it usually means something bad happened (ie injuries to the starters and backups)

folks like to cheer for bench guys making the team. thats cool. i never really understood that cuz i hope they dont get to play. if my 13-15th guy on my team is playing significant/meaningful mins then something went wrong. thats why i never really cared who made the team at the end of the bench

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:welcome to the team...

i always liked his grit and toughness at wichita st. i think hard working individuals should be rewarded

with that said i hope he never gets to see meaningful minutes. if that happens that means something went terribly wrong

what do you have in mind?

nothing against him. if the 15th man on any team is getting significant mins, it usually means something bad happened (ie injuries to the starters and backups)

folks like to cheer for bench guys making the team. thats cool. i never really understood that cuz i hope they dont get to play. if my 13-15th guy on my team is playing significant/meaningful mins then something went wrong. thats why i never really cared who made the team at the end of the bench

how do you arrive at 13th-15th man on this particular knicks team

He had a good chance to make this roster and I'm glad he played well and earned the spot. IF I had to pick a real glaring weakness on the Knicks roster its outside shooting. Knicks are way behind the top NBA teams on their shooting and that's where they will really struggle this year IMO. At least Baker can fill a role, but I think they will need a lot more in that regard.

Knicks roster is filled with inefficient shooters who will be dominating the ball.

VDesai wrote:He had a good chance to make this roster and I'm glad he played well and earned the spot. IF I had to pick a real glaring weakness on the Knicks roster its outside shooting. Knicks are way behind the top NBA teams on their shooting and that's where they will really struggle this year IMO. At least Baker can fill a role, but I think they will need a lot more in that regard.

Knicks roster is filled with inefficient shooters who will be dominating the ball.

KP, Melo and Lee in the starting lineup is plenty of shooting. Rose is not a deep threat but obviously does other things that should open up shots for KP, Melo and Lee. Holiday is starting to get his rhythm back and looks like he'll be at least decent shooting the ball. Sasha is streaky so there will be times where he's a real plus and others where he's less effective. Having a kid like Baker does help even if he's not likely to be a kid that sees a lot of minutes.

VDesai wrote:He had a good chance to make this roster and I'm glad he played well and earned the spot. IF I had to pick a real glaring weakness on the Knicks roster its outside shooting. Knicks are way behind the top NBA teams on their shooting and that's where they will really struggle this year IMO. At least Baker can fill a role, but I think they will need a lot more in that regard.

Knicks roster is filled with inefficient shooters who will be dominating the ball.

this should mean that baker will see meaningful minutes then.

dk7th wrote:

VDesai wrote:He had a good chance to make this roster and I'm glad he played well and earned the spot. IF I had to pick a real glaring weakness on the Knicks roster its outside shooting. Knicks are way behind the top NBA teams on their shooting and that's where they will really struggle this year IMO. At least Baker can fill a role, but I think they will need a lot more in that regard.

Knicks roster is filled with inefficient shooters who will be dominating the ball.

this should mean that baker will see meaningful minutes then.

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:welcome to the team...

i always liked his grit and toughness at wichita st. i think hard working individuals should be rewarded

with that said i hope he never gets to see meaningful minutes. if that happens that means something went terribly wrong

what do you have in mind?

nothing against him. if the 15th man on any team is getting significant mins, it usually means something bad happened (ie injuries to the starters and backups)

folks like to cheer for bench guys making the team. thats cool. i never really understood that cuz i hope they dont get to play. if my 13-15th guy on my team is playing significant/meaningful mins then something went wrong. thats why i never really cared who made the team at the end of the bench

how do you arrive at 13th-15th man on this particular knicks team

sorry for not making myself clear. basically i dont really care or pay attention to the 11-15th man. if that player (whether its baker, plumlee or who ever) is playing significant minutes that means something went wrong. teams usually build a squad with 3-5 guys off the bench. if a team has to use more than 3-5 guys off the bench for a significant period of time that means there was some type of injury or someone in the rotation sucks. thats usually a bad sign to me. so while im happy for baker and others who made the team i typically dont even give them much thought

i highly doubt baker gets significant minutes. i think theyll try holiday and sasha before that happens.

i actually dont care who plays...if baker gets the chance to show he can play and belong (like galloway did) then id be happy for him. all im saying is i just dont expect it.

overall - the 11-15th players on a team typically dont contribute much

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:

dk7th wrote:

callmened wrote:welcome to the team...

i always liked his grit and toughness at wichita st. i think hard working individuals should be rewarded

with that said i hope he never gets to see meaningful minutes. if that happens that means something went terribly wrong

what do you have in mind?

nothing against him. if the 15th man on any team is getting significant mins, it usually means something bad happened (ie injuries to the starters and backups)

folks like to cheer for bench guys making the team. thats cool. i never really understood that cuz i hope they dont get to play. if my 13-15th guy on my team is playing significant/meaningful mins then something went wrong. thats why i never really cared who made the team at the end of the bench

how do you arrive at 13th-15th man on this particular knicks team

sorry for not making myself clear. basically i dont really care or pay attention to the 11-15th man. if that player (whether its baker, plumlee or who ever) is playing significant minutes that means something went wrong. teams usually build a squad with 3-5 guys off the bench. if a team has to use more than 3-5 guys off the bench for a significant period of time that means there was some type of injury or someone in the rotation sucks. thats usually a bad sign to me. so while im happy for baker and others who made the team i typically dont even give them much thought

i highly doubt baker gets significant minutes. i think theyll try holiday and sasha before that happens.

i actually dont care who plays...if baker gets the chance to show he can play and belong (like galloway did) then id be happy for him. all im saying is i just dont expect it.

overall - the 11-15th players on a team typically dont contribute much

right. of course i approach the situation differently from you, ie. without presumptions as to who is in the rotation and who isn't. red holzman played 12 guys regularly, and if i am not mistaken so does popovich. one reason was that back in the holzman era almost everybody had four years of college so they were easier to coach, and were really basketball players in addition to being athletes.

nowadays there's too much drafting of athletes with very little basketball skill, and a huge number of assisant coaches that try to mold these guys into actual basketball players on the fly.

by contrast popovich and buford were among the earliest adopters of looking outside the usa for players with basketball skills and years of real coaching. seems to me what the knicks are doing under jackson is much the same: look outside the ncaa/aau conveyor belt to find guys who actually have been properly coached and create the kind of depth required for deep playoff runs. heck, even kuzminskas felt he wasn't ready for the nba and he is almost 27.

so what i am saying is i would not be too presumptuous about who is going to be in the rotation. however, if i were to suggest one thing to hornacek, it would be that hornacek look for the best possible fit with players who are versatile and multiskilled, ie what Walt Frazier calls "complete players." baker is one of those guys.

guess who i think isn't?