Knicks · Rose and Jennings: UNACCEPTABLE (page 2)

RicanHavok wrote:

Frankie says "Im suing!"

I am a bit concerned that Rose is going to take more shots than KP. There is really zero reason for that - for both health and contract reasons.
I say he has a year to show he can be a real PG. We simply don't need to rely on him heavily (regularly) for scoring. We have Melo and KP and I'd
really like to see both Rose and Jennings, focus on getting the team going. I have hope for Jennings, Rose has been what he is for a while now...

Difficult to go too hard on Rose because he has missed so much time... I needed to see him setting up players a little better than he did, though.

You need to get Lee and KP in a shooting groove...they, more than Carmello, depend on a good PG.

We had no kind of game in the post, and I saw KP open down low a number of times and he never got the ball. Noah should be a good center to play the Triangle off of...if other things aren't working, there are worse things than working the offense through him.

Cavs are a small team, and we did not take advantage of this fact, IMO.

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

arkrud wrote:

dk7th wrote:Last night's statline for these two players-- both on one-year audition contracts-- indicate that we can expect more of the same from them.

I have said repeatedly that Rose cannot take more shots than KP6.... and he took 17 shots to KP6's 13. Rose also had 1 assist and 4 turnovers.

UNACCEPTABLE

Jennings shoots 1-7, including 0-4 from the 3-point line

UNACCEPTABLE

There was zero-- zip, nada, zilch-- offensive cohesion and no discernible triangle being run last night because guess what: neither rose nor ennings know how to participate in it. they are merely drive and kick, inefficient guards. this sort of play TORPEDOES THE OFFENSE AND HURTS MORALE

UNACCEPTABLE

hornacek looked very disappointed and sad last night-- why? he may have realized that

YOU CAN'T SIT BETWEEN TWO STOOLS

either run the triangle with players who actually can or scrap it and allow these two clowns to "lead" the team to the lottery.

Running triangle with Rosennings or let them do what they used to do will have the same outcome.
So as soon as we have them for a year why not to try to enhance their games?
We are losing nothing with this 2.
This year outcome is Melo and Phil problem as their windows are closing.
Knicks are not going anywhere this year anyways.
So it should be used to develop young players and continue with establishing winning culture.

i agree, but as you know, a majority of pollyanna posters predict a playoff run with this team. i have said 38 wins is likelier. this year should be about kp6's development, and grooming kuzminskas, hernangomez, and baker to be able to become established.

Thinking that investing 90 million in two starters should equal a stealth tanking season after 1 "jayvee" game.
UNACCEPTABLE

Thinking 3 rookies with 1 game of "jayvee" NBA experience should be the focal point of this season.
UNACCEPTABLE

Constantly opining about the first actual real, legitimate offensive threat the franchise has had at PG in anyone's distant memory, while still wearing your moral papacy.
UNACCEPTABLE

Word jerking yourself into oblivion over a player most of the media has reported could become SMOTY in Jennings.
UNACCEPTABLE

ha...good ones.

This was just one game, Triangle should be removed completely , the only issue i see is that Rose & Melo needs to get other players going first. Than Take over when needed alot of selfish basketball being played. The teams only problem is defense what i did see is this team can score. Jeff Has to work on tighting the roster a Bit only 10 Players should be in rotation to bring offensive cohesion. I also saw that kuzminskas is a great scorer and Holiday also will contribute .
Brandon Jennings
Justin Holiday
Cheese
Lance Thomas
Porzingis

This should be our Small but uptempo lineup.

dk7th wrote:Last night's statline for these two players-- both on one-year audition contracts-- indicate that we can expect more of the same from them.

I have said repeatedly that Rose cannot take more shots than KP6.... and he took 17 shots to KP6's 13. Rose also had 1 assist and 4 turnovers.

UNACCEPTABLE

Jennings shoots 1-7, including 0-4 from the 3-point line

UNACCEPTABLE

There was zero-- zip, nada, zilch-- offensive cohesion and no discernible triangle being run last night because guess what: neither rose nor ennings know how to participate in it. they are merely drive and kick, inefficient guards. this sort of play TORPEDOES THE OFFENSE AND HURTS MORALE

UNACCEPTABLE

hornacek looked very disappointed and sad last night-- why? he may have realized that

YOU CAN'T SIT BETWEEN TWO STOOLS

either run the triangle with players who actually can or scrap it and allow these two clowns to "lead" the team to the lottery.

we need a sticky rant thread. A thread to blow off steam and "Changes".
I also suggest Briggs gets his own thread. A place where he can "Discover" what he perceives as under the radar guys in college not known by scouts and lineup changes.

Nixluva should have his own thread as well for the positive spin, and Malcolm one just for all things Triangle.

Im really not being that sarcastic. There are redundant subjects but its also very well discussed so let there be a place to do it.
Too many threads dilute the site. Of course, too few is not good either.
Martin knows what's best........

BTW, Jennings is who he is so lets not get too disappointed.
Rose WAS Westbrook and while he appears to be on his way back, he has to get more live action, time with team, and time to practice some.

i refuse to overreact to one game - the FIRST game at the defending champs on the road during their ring ceremony

yes there were some problems and concerns but i dont think the knicks should overreact

Nalod wrote:

dk7th wrote:Last night's statline for these two players-- both on one-year audition contracts-- indicate that we can expect more of the same from them.

I have said repeatedly that Rose cannot take more shots than KP6.... and he took 17 shots to KP6's 13. Rose also had 1 assist and 4 turnovers.

UNACCEPTABLE

Jennings shoots 1-7, including 0-4 from the 3-point line

UNACCEPTABLE

There was zero-- zip, nada, zilch-- offensive cohesion and no discernible triangle being run last night because guess what: neither rose nor ennings know how to participate in it. they are merely drive and kick, inefficient guards. this sort of play TORPEDOES THE OFFENSE AND HURTS MORALE

UNACCEPTABLE

hornacek looked very disappointed and sad last night-- why? he may have realized that

YOU CAN'T SIT BETWEEN TWO STOOLS

either run the triangle with players who actually can or scrap it and allow these two clowns to "lead" the team to the lottery.

we need a sticky rant thread. A thread to blow off steam and "Changes".
I also suggest Briggs gets his own thread. A place where he can "Discover" what he perceives as under the radar guys in college not known by scouts and lineup changes.

Nixluva should have his own thread as well for the positive spin, and Malcolm one just for all things Triangle.

Im really not being that sarcastic. There are redundant subjects but its also very well discussed so let there be a place to do it.
Too many threads dilute the site. Of course, too few is not good either.
Martin knows what's best........

nah i don't think so, old chap. the reason why i started this thread is that last night we saw clearly what i have been saying since june, which is that neither rose nor jennings are coachable and are not going to help the team win. i also have been saying that hornacek cannot afford to sit between two stools in terms of what kind of offense to run, and last night the offense was a total unmitigated mess. coaching and reps are not going to change that-- i'll believe it when io see it-- and asking rose or jennings to push the ball actually ends up torpedoing whatever offense hornacek wants to run because they lack the skills and bbiq to do anything other than what we saw last night, ie pushing the ball but jacking up bad shots, pushing the ball but not making good passes, pushing the ball and not seeing the floor, and pushing the ball but leaving their feet to pass.

and then there's their simply atrocious defense that only translates to more losses.

dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:

dk7th wrote:Last night's statline for these two players-- both on one-year audition contracts-- indicate that we can expect more of the same from them.

I have said repeatedly that Rose cannot take more shots than KP6.... and he took 17 shots to KP6's 13. Rose also had 1 assist and 4 turnovers.

UNACCEPTABLE

Jennings shoots 1-7, including 0-4 from the 3-point line

UNACCEPTABLE

There was zero-- zip, nada, zilch-- offensive cohesion and no discernible triangle being run last night because guess what: neither rose nor ennings know how to participate in it. they are merely drive and kick, inefficient guards. this sort of play TORPEDOES THE OFFENSE AND HURTS MORALE

UNACCEPTABLE

hornacek looked very disappointed and sad last night-- why? he may have realized that

YOU CAN'T SIT BETWEEN TWO STOOLS

either run the triangle with players who actually can or scrap it and allow these two clowns to "lead" the team to the lottery.

we need a sticky rant thread. A thread to blow off steam and "Changes".
I also suggest Briggs gets his own thread. A place where he can "Discover" what he perceives as under the radar guys in college not known by scouts and lineup changes.

Nixluva should have his own thread as well for the positive spin, and Malcolm one just for all things Triangle.

Im really not being that sarcastic. There are redundant subjects but its also very well discussed so let there be a place to do it.
Too many threads dilute the site. Of course, too few is not good either.
Martin knows what's best........

nah i don't think so, old chap. the reason why i started this thread is that last night we saw clearly what i have been saying since june, which is that neither rose nor jennings are coachable and are not going to help the team win. i also have been saying that hornacek cannot afford to sit between two stools in terms of what kind of offense to run, and last night the offense was a total unmitigated mess. coaching and reps are not going to change that-- i'll believe it when io see it-- and asking rose or jennings to push the ball actually ends up torpedoing whatever offense hornacek wants to run because they lack the skills and bbiq to do anything other than what we saw last night, ie pushing the ball but jacking up bad shots, pushing the ball but not making good passes, pushing the ball and not seeing the floor, and pushing the ball but leaving their feet to pass.

and then there's their simply atrocious defense that only translates to more losses.

Its your belief. ANd last nite you were correct.

Rose has this nasty habit of leaving his feet to pass.
Rose in his MVP year was Westbrook. Neither is championship material until they find that missing piece.

If they continue as they did last nite, they will not fare well this season.
Capt' obvious can see that!!! I'll throw in: "If they don't out score their opponent every game they will not win!"

"Old Chap"? LOL

Nalod wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:

dk7th wrote:Last night's statline for these two players-- both on one-year audition contracts-- indicate that we can expect more of the same from them.

I have said repeatedly that Rose cannot take more shots than KP6.... and he took 17 shots to KP6's 13. Rose also had 1 assist and 4 turnovers.

UNACCEPTABLE

Jennings shoots 1-7, including 0-4 from the 3-point line

UNACCEPTABLE

There was zero-- zip, nada, zilch-- offensive cohesion and no discernible triangle being run last night because guess what: neither rose nor ennings know how to participate in it. they are merely drive and kick, inefficient guards. this sort of play TORPEDOES THE OFFENSE AND HURTS MORALE

UNACCEPTABLE

hornacek looked very disappointed and sad last night-- why? he may have realized that

YOU CAN'T SIT BETWEEN TWO STOOLS

either run the triangle with players who actually can or scrap it and allow these two clowns to "lead" the team to the lottery.

we need a sticky rant thread. A thread to blow off steam and "Changes".
I also suggest Briggs gets his own thread. A place where he can "Discover" what he perceives as under the radar guys in college not known by scouts and lineup changes.

Nixluva should have his own thread as well for the positive spin, and Malcolm one just for all things Triangle.

Im really not being that sarcastic. There are redundant subjects but its also very well discussed so let there be a place to do it.
Too many threads dilute the site. Of course, too few is not good either.
Martin knows what's best........

nah i don't think so, old chap. the reason why i started this thread is that last night we saw clearly what i have been saying since june, which is that neither rose nor jennings are coachable and are not going to help the team win. i also have been saying that hornacek cannot afford to sit between two stools in terms of what kind of offense to run, and last night the offense was a total unmitigated mess. coaching and reps are not going to change that-- i'll believe it when io see it-- and asking rose or jennings to push the ball actually ends up torpedoing whatever offense hornacek wants to run because they lack the skills and bbiq to do anything other than what we saw last night, ie pushing the ball but jacking up bad shots, pushing the ball but not making good passes, pushing the ball and not seeing the floor, and pushing the ball but leaving their feet to pass.

and then there's their simply atrocious defense that only translates to more losses.

Its your belief. ANd last nite you were correct.

Rose has this nasty habit of leaving his feet to pass.
Rose in his MVP year was Westbrook. Neither is championship material until they find that missing piece.

If they continue as they did last nite, they will not fare well this season.
Capt' obvious can see that!!! I'll throw in: "If they don't out score their opponent every game they will not win!"

"Old Chap"? LOL

it's not about being right, it's about pattern recognition based on stats and the eye test, identifying probable performance, and coming up with a solution, no matter how politically incorrect.

westbrook had that missing piece, who left because that missing piece recognized what i said was the problem: westbrook doesn't know how to play with others, or better: FOR others. and all that driving to the hoop means losses unless you can finish at a 60% or greater clip.

i love that meme, old bean!

dk7th wrote:. . . last night we saw clearly what i have been saying since june, which is that neither rose nor jennings are coachable and are not going to help the team win. i also have been saying that hornacek cannot afford to sit between two stools in terms of what kind of offense to run, and last night the offense was a total unmitigated mess. coaching and reps are not going to change that-- i'll believe it when io see it-- and asking rose or jennings to push the ball actually ends up torpedoing whatever offense hornacek wants to run because they lack the skills and bbiq to do anything other than what we saw last night, ie pushing the ball but jacking up bad shots, pushing the ball but not making good passes, pushing the ball and not seeing the floor, and pushing the ball but leaving their feet to pass.

100% agreement. Jackson is going to have to step in eventually and make this all clear . . .

Like evey scoring pg in the league, they hate the triangle and can not thrive in it period. No pg in the league would act more than 3 assist pg in the triangle.

I want rose to have a balance, some games he may shoot 18 times, I'm ok with that, just not every game. He has to do that to put pressure on opposing guards, wear them out, make them wrk, we pitched about calerdon never shooting,and putting no kind if pressure in defense, no your complaint rose is shooting to much in a pg driven league..

Cmon dk,you know better

earthmansurfer wrote:I am a bit concerned that Rose is going to take more shots than KP. There is really zero reason for that - for both health and contract reasons.
I say he has a year to show he can be a real PG. We simply don't need to rely on him heavily (regularly) for scoring. We have Melo and KP and I'd
really like to see both Rose and Jennings, focus on getting the team going. I have hope for Jennings, Rose has been what he is for a while now...

To the extent that Rose's driving/penetration opens looks for KP+Melo, he should do it, not with an inclination to stuff his stats for next contract, but with the clear plan to improve team scoring overall. Whatever points he puts down are still a contributing factor to wins, so we'll take it. Last night he had a lot of layup miss turnovers, which is not acceptable. He also did not seem intent to distribute the ball much, also unacceptable, although possibly a facet of missing pre-season.

Moonangie wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:I am a bit concerned that Rose is going to take more shots than KP. There is really zero reason for that - for both health and contract reasons.
I say he has a year to show he can be a real PG. We simply don't need to rely on him heavily (regularly) for scoring. We have Melo and KP and I'd
really like to see both Rose and Jennings, focus on getting the team going. I have hope for Jennings, Rose has been what he is for a while now...

To the extent that Rose's driving/penetration opens looks for KP+Melo, he should do it, not with an inclination to stuff his stats for next contract, but with the clear plan to improve team scoring overall. Whatever points he puts down are still a contributing factor to wins, so we'll take it. Last night he had a lot of layup miss turnovers, which is not acceptable. He also did not seem intent to distribute the ball much, also unacceptable, although possibly a facet of missing pre-season.

You guys are absolutely contradicting yourselves because you complain the Lee, lance,melo, Jennings were missing wide open shots, and then say Rose shot too much. So basically you want him to pass to players that are brickin shots, then wonder why he had 1 assist.

Scorers stop passing when there teammates brick shots. It's ok for kyrie to toast us for 30 points, but rose should pass more..smdh

Moonangle - I pretty much agree regarding the drives. It is clear it is a skill set of Rose. His injuries arose in large part from those finishes, so I doubt we see him as agressive in the past, but he can still blow by people, if the layup is there, take it, if not, dish.

knicks1248 - Nah, just saying Rose needs to have a better FG% with fewer shots. In the end, fewer shots for Rose than KP in general, not as an absolute of course.
It is going to take some time for the team to Jell. Cleveland has been together for a while and just one the chip, no big disappointment here.

It was nice to see some transition points for Rose and he looked good getting to the rim. He still needs to get his legs back.

But, there is no excuse to play stupid basketball. Jennings is fucking out of control at all times. He doesn't know how to shoot the ball, he's always off balance. He showed some decent passing instincts in the preseason, but the two of them were missing easy screen and rolls and pick and pop opportunities. That just can't happen.

It was nice to see some transition points for Rose and he looked good getting to the rim. He still needs to get his legs back.

But, there is no excuse to play stupid basketball. Jennings is fucking out of control at all times. He doesn't know how to shoot the ball, he's always off balance. He showed some decent passing instincts in the preseason, but the two of them were missing easy screen and rolls and pick and pop opportunities. That just can't happen.

MS wrote:It was nice to see some transition points for Rose and he looked good getting to the rim. He still needs to get his legs back.

But, there is no excuse to play stupid basketball. Jennings is fucking out of control at all times. He doesn't know how to shoot the ball, he's always off balance. He showed some decent passing instincts in the preseason, but the two of them were missing easy screen and rolls and pick and pop opportunities. That just can't happen.

Might be the reason 29 teams pass on him

This needed its own thread? Wasn't the game thread spammed enough last night with the Jennings/Rose critique. Jennings looked really bad. Rose looks healthy, really fast and rusty.

CrushAlot wrote:This needed its own thread? Wasn't the game thread spammed enough last night with the Jennings/Rose critique. Jennings looked really bad. Rose looks healthy, really fast and rusty.

This is the closest to being right he's been in a few years. Cmon... let the dude just run with it and have his moment.