Knicks · Knicks are rarely running the triangle... (page 1)
to me that tells me that phil is letting coach hornecek run the show and i like that!!!
CrushAlot wrote:He definitely seems to have autonomy. Also, I thought the Machine would be in the rotation over Holiday if Phil was pushing his style of play on the coach. Hornacek was impressive tonight. I think he was a huge addition to the Knicks.
I was complaining in the summer that the Media was overlooking the impact of Hornacek!!! Very few analysts went into detail about him or even factored Hornacek into the equation. I felt that was a major oversight.
Hornacek is a legit B Ball mind and I felt his schemes and philosophy could be a good mix with this talent. I really look forward to seeing more of what he does with this team going forward.
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:He definitely seems to have autonomy. Also, I thought the Machine would be in the rotation over Holiday if Phil was pushing his style of play on the coach. Hornacek was impressive tonight. I think he was a huge addition to the Knicks.I was complaining in the summer that the Media was overlooking the impact of Hornacek!!! Very few analysts went into detail about him or even factored Hornacek into the equation. I felt that was a major oversight.
Hornacek is a legit B Ball mind and I felt his schemes and philosophy could be a good mix with this talent. I really look forward to seeing more of what he does with this team going forward.
Hornecek can coach. my question was whether phil would allow him to work
callmened wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:He definitely seems to have autonomy. Also, I thought the Machine would be in the rotation over Holiday if Phil was pushing his style of play on the coach. Hornacek was impressive tonight. I think he was a huge addition to the Knicks.I was complaining in the summer that the Media was overlooking the impact of Hornacek!!! Very few analysts went into detail about him or even factored Hornacek into the equation. I felt that was a major oversight.
Hornacek is a legit B Ball mind and I felt his schemes and philosophy could be a good mix with this talent. I really look forward to seeing more of what he does with this team going forward.
Hornecek can coach. my question was whether phil would allow him to work
Funny thing is Phil wasn't really interfering with his coaches all along. He let Fish do his thing and Rambis only got chastised when he was running players into the ground. Jeff said all along that Phil was letting them do what they wanted for the most part.
The Triangle is more of a fallback rather than a prominent part of the offense. Jeff has so many things in his arsenal and even when they use Triangle I expect it will be more conceptual than a pure form of it.
nixluva wrote:I was really concerned that the triangle was a sticking point for Phil when he and Kurt held the triangle workshop last spring. I also was pretty sure Kurt was going to be the coach this year. I am really excited about Jeff. I think he was a great hire.callmened wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:He definitely seems to have autonomy. Also, I thought the Machine would be in the rotation over Holiday if Phil was pushing his style of play on the coach. Hornacek was impressive tonight. I think he was a huge addition to the Knicks.I was complaining in the summer that the Media was overlooking the impact of Hornacek!!! Very few analysts went into detail about him or even factored Hornacek into the equation. I felt that was a major oversight.
Hornacek is a legit B Ball mind and I felt his schemes and philosophy could be a good mix with this talent. I really look forward to seeing more of what he does with this team going forward.
Hornecek can coach. my question was whether phil would allow him to work
Funny thing is Phil wasn't really interfering with his coaches all along. He let Fish do his thing and Rambis only got chastised when he was running players into the ground. Jeff said all along that Phil was letting them do what they wanted for the most part.
The Triangle is more of a fallback rather than a prominent part of the offense. Jeff has so many things in his arsenal and even when they use Triangle I expect it will be more conceptual than a pure form of it.
dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.
Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
EnySpree wrote:They rarely run the triangle when they win and they run it too much when they lose...
You just have to play fast in this league, the longer you wait to shoot, the tougher it gets to get a easy shot.
nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
game 1 he had a usage of 31.2 and an assist rate of 7.9 with 17 shots and 47.5%TS. they got blown out.
game 2 he had a usage of 19.6 and an assist rate of 14.4 with 13 fgas and 46.8%TS. the knicks won.
it's not so much an obsession as it is a clear formula for winning. i predict there will be a reasonably close correlation between the numbers in my signature and the knicks reaching the playoffs... so far as making the playoffs is desirable. even so, the knicks should be targeting a point guard next summer as the number one priority. this season should be more about developing a team for the future, a future that won't involve melo or rose.
To what? I don't know.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
game 1 he had a usage of 31.2 and an assist rate of 7.9 with 17 shots and 47.5%TS. they got blown out.
game 2 he had a usage of 19.6 and an assist rate of 14.4 with 13 fgas and 46.8%TS. the knicks won.it's not so much an obsession as it is a clear formula for winning. i predict there will be a reasonably close correlation between the numbers in my signature and the knicks reaching the playoffs... so far as making the playoffs is desirable. even so, the knicks should be targeting a point guard next summer as the number one priority. this season should be more about developing a team for the future, a future that won't involve melo or rose.
You're describing the results but that has NOTHING to do with the intent. I'm telling you that Rose has since DAY ONE expressed a desire to be a team player and I see no excuse for the attitude you've been taking towards Rose. It's freaking annoying as hell an unwarranted. Give it a f'n rest already!!! Two f'n games in and you're on the war path. SMFH!
knicks1248 wrote:EnySpree wrote:They rarely run the triangle when they win and they run it too much when they lose...You just have to play fast in this league, the longer you wait to shoot, the tougher it gets to get a easy shot.
I was being sarcastic.
I didn't see a difference in the way the Knicks played from game one to game two. The Knicks played a team with less talent and experience. On paper we should have beat Memphis and we did. Guys will continue to get shaper though. I look forward to every game for that reason
EnySpree wrote:knicks1248 wrote:EnySpree wrote:They rarely run the triangle when they win and they run it too much when they lose...You just have to play fast in this league, the longer you wait to shoot, the tougher it gets to get a easy shot.
I was being sarcastic.
I didn't see a difference in the way the Knicks played from game one to game two. The Knicks played a team with less talent and experience. On paper we should have beat Memphis and we did. Guys will continue to get shaper though. I look forward to every game for that reason
So true.
The team they played was far inferior.
We also had way more energy at home.
The Rose/Noah/Lee additions to the lineup looked a little more comfortable with each other.
Strategically though it was same. We run Triangle of the game slows down and the point guards can't get a quick scoring chance going. Noah in particular is fantastic in the Triangle. It's still at the early point of where they can be. I think coach knows he will need a 3 headed offense - fast breaking, early pick and rolls and Triangle.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
game 1 he had a usage of 31.2 and an assist rate of 7.9 with 17 shots and 47.5%TS. they got blown out.
game 2 he had a usage of 19.6 and an assist rate of 14.4 with 13 fgas and 46.8%TS. the knicks won.it's not so much an obsession as it is a clear formula for winning. i predict there will be a reasonably close correlation between the numbers in my signature and the knicks reaching the playoffs... so far as making the playoffs is desirable. even so, the knicks should be targeting a point guard next summer as the number one priority. this season should be more about developing a team for the future, a future that won't involve melo or rose.
Noah played poorly in the first game and very well in the second game. Rose usage was high and low due to Noahs play. When Noah was balling in the Memphis game it reduced the need for Rose to have the ball in his hands since Noah was making the right reads with the ball in his. Noahs playmaking ability really reduces the dependence on Rose and Melo to do so. They can focus on there defined skill set.
Rose can push and penitrate, hopefully be patient enough to pull back if the defense recovers rather then force it.
Melo can catch and shoot off of Noah and Rose. And get his isos when nessesary.
Noah can do what Noah does.
KP can do what KP does.
We def need to make sure that Lee is heavily involved early. The other guys will get their opportunities no problem. If we get Lee going like last game then we have to much fire power.
nyknickzingis wrote:EnySpree wrote:knicks1248 wrote:EnySpree wrote:They rarely run the triangle when they win and they run it too much when they lose...You just have to play fast in this league, the longer you wait to shoot, the tougher it gets to get a easy shot.
I was being sarcastic.
I didn't see a difference in the way the Knicks played from game one to game two. The Knicks played a team with less talent and experience. On paper we should have beat Memphis and we did. Guys will continue to get shaper though. I look forward to every game for that reason
So true.
The team they played was far inferior.
We also had way more energy at home.
The Rose/Noah/Lee additions to the lineup looked a little more comfortable with each other.Strategically though it was same. We run Triangle of the game slows down and the point guards can't get a quick scoring chance going. Noah in particular is fantastic in the Triangle. It's still at the early point of where they can be. I think coach knows he will need a 3 headed offense - fast breaking, early pick and rolls and Triangle.
And that's good basketball
newyorknewyork wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
game 1 he had a usage of 31.2 and an assist rate of 7.9 with 17 shots and 47.5%TS. they got blown out.
game 2 he had a usage of 19.6 and an assist rate of 14.4 with 13 fgas and 46.8%TS. the knicks won.it's not so much an obsession as it is a clear formula for winning. i predict there will be a reasonably close correlation between the numbers in my signature and the knicks reaching the playoffs... so far as making the playoffs is desirable. even so, the knicks should be targeting a point guard next summer as the number one priority. this season should be more about developing a team for the future, a future that won't involve melo or rose.
Noah played poorly in the first game and very well in the second game. Rose usage was high and low due to Noahs play. When Noah was balling in the Memphis game it reduced the need for Rose to have the ball in his hands since Noah was making the right reads with the ball in his. Noahs playmaking ability really reduces the dependence on Rose and Melo to do so. They can focus on there defined skill set.
Rose can push and penitrate, hopefully be patient enough to pull back if the defense recovers rather then force it.
Melo can catch and shoot off of Noah and Rose. And get his isos when nessesary.
Noah can do what Noah does.
KP can do what KP does.We def need to make sure that Lee is heavily involved early. The other guys will get their opportunities no problem. If we get Lee going like last game then we have to much fire power.
statistically you can't make that argument based on usage. noah's usage was 4.3% and rose's was 31.2%. in other words noah barely touched the ball. based on the eye test the entire team looked discombobulated and that discombobulation was due to rose being ball-dominant and reckless, with melo also contributing to the hysteria. the fact that he barely had the ball in his hands the first 6 minutes against memphis-- when the knicks built a nice lead-- is evidence that hornacek told him to calm down and share the ball.
dk7th wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
game 1 he had a usage of 31.2 and an assist rate of 7.9 with 17 shots and 47.5%TS. they got blown out.
game 2 he had a usage of 19.6 and an assist rate of 14.4 with 13 fgas and 46.8%TS. the knicks won.it's not so much an obsession as it is a clear formula for winning. i predict there will be a reasonably close correlation between the numbers in my signature and the knicks reaching the playoffs... so far as making the playoffs is desirable. even so, the knicks should be targeting a point guard next summer as the number one priority. this season should be more about developing a team for the future, a future that won't involve melo or rose.
Noah played poorly in the first game and very well in the second game. Rose usage was high and low due to Noahs play. When Noah was balling in the Memphis game it reduced the need for Rose to have the ball in his hands since Noah was making the right reads with the ball in his. Noahs playmaking ability really reduces the dependence on Rose and Melo to do so. They can focus on there defined skill set.
Rose can push and penitrate, hopefully be patient enough to pull back if the defense recovers rather then force it.
Melo can catch and shoot off of Noah and Rose. And get his isos when nessesary.
Noah can do what Noah does.
KP can do what KP does.We def need to make sure that Lee is heavily involved early. The other guys will get their opportunities no problem. If we get Lee going like last game then we have to much fire power.
statistically you can't make that argument based on usage. noah's usage was 4.3% and rose's was 31.2%. in other words noah barely touched the ball. based on the eye test the entire team looked discombobulated and that discombobulation was due to rose being ball-dominant and reckless, with melo also contributing to the hysteria. the fact that he barely had the ball in his hands the first 6 minutes against memphis-- when the knicks built a nice lead-- is evidence that hornacek told him to calm down and share the ball.
Noah's usage was low because he wasn't really engaged in the first game. He and Tristan Thompson both seemed out of it.
dk7th wrote:So playing the world champions in the game 1 and Memphis in game 2 had nothing to do with the results? It was strictly Rose and his usage rate?nixluva wrote:dk7th wrote:they're running it some. maybe they aren't running it a bunch because rose joined the team two weeks late, and that he admitted it's a bit difficult to understand. whatever. so long as he doesn't have a usage rate of 30% and takes fewer than 13 shots the knicks will fare better.Rose NEVER intended to have a high usage rate here and he's stated that since DAY ONE! You are the only one who is obsessed with this notion.
game 1 he had a usage of 31.2 and an assist rate of 7.9 with 17 shots and 47.5%TS. they got blown out.
game 2 he had a usage of 19.6 and an assist rate of 14.4 with 13 fgas and 46.8%TS. the knicks won.it's not so much an obsession as it is a clear formula for winning. i predict there will be a reasonably close correlation between the numbers in my signature and the knicks reaching the playoffs... so far as making the playoffs is desirable. even so, the knicks should be targeting a point guard next summer as the number one priority. this season should be more about developing a team for the future, a future that won't involve melo or rose.
You see how a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous in the wrong hands.