Knicks · 36 win team (page 1)

BRIGGS @ 11/2/2016 9:45 PM
Well need to rely on beating teams who are worse???? Than us no chance to consistently beat good teams
arkrud @ 11/2/2016 11:27 PM
We cannot beat good teams period.
Can we beat bad teams?
If not - we are golden... with Rose off the books and top 5 pick we finally can became a real NBA team next year.
franco12 @ 11/3/2016 1:07 AM
arkrud wrote:We cannot beat good teams period.
Can we beat bad teams?
If not - we are golden... with Rose off the books and top 5 pick we finally can became a real NBA team next year.

I'm worried that isn't enough. Phil and his triangle have to go. I like some of his moves - some have been garbage

smackeddog @ 11/3/2016 3:35 AM
Cancel the season- no team in nba history has ever gotten better after 4 games
BRIGGS @ 11/3/2016 3:48 AM
smackeddog wrote:Cancel the season- no team in nba history has ever gotten better after 4 games

No need to cancel season--but this will go no where

smackeddog @ 11/3/2016 4:02 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Cancel the season- no team in nba history has ever gotten better after 4 games

No need to cancel season--but this will go no where

So are we the only team that won't get better after 4 games, or is it every team in the nba that are what they are at this point?

knickscity @ 11/3/2016 4:07 AM
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Cancel the season- no team in nba history has ever gotten better after 4 games

No need to cancel season--but this will go no where

So are we the only team that won't get better after 4 games, or is it every team in the nba that are what they are at this point?

36 wins would be an improvement, so there is time and games on the team's side.

Bonn1997 @ 11/3/2016 7:09 AM
knickscity wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Cancel the season- no team in nba history has ever gotten better after 4 games

No need to cancel season--but this will go no where

So are we the only team that won't get better after 4 games, or is it every team in the nba that are what they are at this point?

36 wins would be an improvement, so there is time and games on the team's side.


Yeah, I was thinking 36 seems generous. Based on point differentials and strength of schedule, BBall Ref ranks us 30th out of 30 teams right now.
Nalod @ 11/3/2016 10:04 AM
Trump will win Connecticut!
Cubs in 7! Bank on that!
Knicks will start slow. 9 new players, three are starters and a new coach.
PG missed half of training camp. He was not even on the sidelines to watch.
Shocking.
Knixkik @ 11/3/2016 10:17 AM
Nalod wrote:Trump will win Connecticut!
Cubs in 7! Bank on that!
Knicks will start slow. 9 new players, three are starters and a new coach.
PG missed half of training camp. He was not even on the sidelines to watch.
Shocking.

We are 1-3 against 4 playoff teams. We could easily be 0-4. We haven't played a team we are 'supposed' to beat yet. The way we are losing is the frustrating thing, but 1-3 should have been expected.
shinmen @ 11/3/2016 10:40 AM
I agree, there has to be perspective. The majority here feels like the knicks will be around 500 by the end of the season with growing pain at the beginning due to a building chemistry and rough schedule.
However it's not as much the losses as the way they lose. You're not supposed to lose by 20 even if you're the sixers.
Nalod @ 11/3/2016 10:45 AM
Detroit is 3-2 and not deemed a pushover. They played at home as well.
Nobody is happy about losing, but at best most thought a low playoff seed.

only 78 more games to prove themselves!!!

anrst @ 11/3/2016 1:29 PM
this is an isiah thomas type team. just parts. no fit. no plan.
crzymdups @ 11/3/2016 7:28 PM
anrst wrote:this is an isiah thomas type team. just parts. no fit. no plan.

I think the parts fit with the starters. DRose need to distribute better, so does Melo, but the pieces make sense.

The bench does not make sense though, which is a big problem.

But I think the starters can make sense in time - the Memphis game showed that, as did parts of the Detroit game.

knicks1248 @ 11/3/2016 9:10 PM
Is the triangle to blame for Knicks’ horrible defense, too?
James Harden with an easy bucket against the Knicks. Photo: Getty Images
MORE ON:
NEW YORK KNICKS

Knicks spiraling out of control as Rose, Noah return to Chicago

2 charged with killing former Knicks draft pick found dead in SUV

Derrick Rose's low-key role in Cubs' triumphant year

56 most significant droughts in sports — 6 are NY-area teams
Leave it to new Knicks shooting guard Courtney Lee to come up with one of the more interesting theories of the past three years on why Phil Jackson’s teams haven’t defended well.

Following another inept defensive outing against the Rockets on Wednesday, when the Garden crowd booed the Knicks in their second home game, Lee suggested that in practice the players are defending against triangle sets and therefore don’t get a long look at a standard pace-and-space, pick-and-rolling club such as the Rockets.

The implication is they need to change up practice or have a scout team for the starters to go against.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––


«
i


“We run the triangle, we practice against it a lot,” Lee said after the 118-99 slaughter in which the Knicks gave up 68 first-half points. “I think we need to practice against pick and rolls, practice against other looks and whatnot and get accustomed, get comfortable with that.

“Because that’s what other teams are running. They’re coming in here, they’re spacing the floor and doing that and we’re not getting stops.”

To date, Lee is best known as a Knick for being the student in Phil Jackson’s 15-minute triangle tutorial in front of reporters after Monday’s practice.

Lee’s remarks also came after coach Jeff Hornacek came down harder on the club than at any point in preseason or the opening three games. In preseason, the Knicks allowed 107 points per game — second-worst in the league. In the regular season, they are ranked 28th in defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions), considered the most accurate barometer.

Hornacek said players are too easily looking for a help defender instead of focusing on their primary defensive assignment.

Modal Trigger
Jeff Hornacek huddles with Knicks against Rockets.Photo: AP
“It’s not like we haven’t done defense in practice,” Hornacek said. “Guys are offensive-minded guys, but we have to play both ends. Defense has been taught and preached. It’s half of practice every time. Sometimes guys just have to take it upon yourself to stop somebody. Not look for help.”

Hornacek is without his his defensive coordinator from Phoenix, Mike Longabardi, who jumped to Cleveland after he got fired by the Suns last season. Hornacek was interested in hiring Longabardi for the Knicks, but he had signed a multi-year deal with the Cavaliers. Hornacek’s staff here doesn’t have a defensive coach per se.

Now Hornacek seems on the defensive, even stating the players aren’t following “the scouting report’’ the assistants are delivering to them. The big problem is three starters, Derrick Rose, Carmelo Anthony and Kristaps Porzingis (other than shot-blocking), aren’t instinctive players on defense.

At least Joakim Noah and Rose should know the opponent’s tendencies Friday in Chicago.

Other observations:

Modal Trigger
Maurice Ndour defends the Rockets’ Eric GordonPhoto: Getty Images
— Rose certainly has proven he can blast to the rim, but he’s not making his mates better or finding enough guys on kick-outs. James Harden had more assists in one game (15) than Rose has through four games (10). He has talked about figuring out how to set up guys in triangle sets. It may be an effect of missing 16 days of preseason to attend his civil sexual assault trial.

— Maurice Ndour saw action for the second straight game, posting 18:37. Hornacek feels he’s a defense-first guy. Meanwhile, Hornacek reduced struggling Lance Thomas’ minutes to just 9:43. Rookie Mindaugus Kuzminskas was only brought in for garbage time – the final 5:56, in which he scored six points, or six more than Noah

triangle will be the death of phil

knicks1248 @ 11/3/2016 9:50 PM
[
markvmc @ 11/3/2016 9:59 PM
36 sounds about right.
BRIGGS @ 11/3/2016 11:38 PM
markvmc wrote:36 sounds about right.

1 year in 15 years we had a dcent team while we outspent every team in professional sports by a wide margin per win Were good at getting the J Noahs of the world and overpaying them when its obvious they are way way way past their prime.

Maybe Jeff Hornaceck should be GM. Hes still young and knows the game today more than Phil. Why did we bring back Steve Mills He scked the first time and he scks now--hes just not good.

nixluva @ 11/3/2016 11:45 PM
crzymdups wrote:
anrst wrote:this is an isiah thomas type team. just parts. no fit. no plan.

I think the parts fit with the starters. DRose need to distribute better, so does Melo, but the pieces make sense.

The bench does not make sense though, which is a big problem.

But I think the starters can make sense in time - the Memphis game showed that, as did parts of the Detroit game.


Yeah a lot of this is a bit overstated. Yes the team has had a couple of putrid games but you can see how they COULD play much better if they get on the same page and develop some chemistry.

I do think that trying to force a strict Triangle is a mistake. This team is not ready to play like that exclusively. If I'm Jeff I would refuse to go out like that. I'd start putting in more of my own stuff cuz it makes no sense to have your own modern system that players like but hold it back just to try and make the players learn the Triangle at this point. If Rose and Noah were there for the entire preseason perhaps it would've made a huge difference but even then I still wouldn't run a primarily Triangle dominant offense with these players.

We have a bunch of guys that are natural PnR players and now for some reason Jeff isn't running PnR at the level he said he wanted to coming into the season. That doesn't make any sense. This is not to say you totally abandon the Triangle but there's really no reason to not be using all the stuff that Jeff ran that Steve Kerr was so impressed with that he said he stole some of his plays and was inspired by what he saw Jeff doing and brought that similar approach to GS.

THIS IS THE GUY I THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING!!!

Part of what built Kerr's confidence and model for the job was watching Jeff Hornacek, his former 1988-89 Suns teammate, take over Phoenix last season and guide the Suns to a 48-34 season.

"Jeff and I are pretty similar personalities," Kerr said. "There's a lot of fire inside, but pretty calm and laid-back at the same time. I think players appreciate that. You don't want a huge emotional ride every single day, but you've got to have some direction and some fire. So I looked at Jeff and the job he did last year and the success he had, and I drew inspiration from that. I still watch him and watch his team with a lot of respect. They do a lot of really innovative things offensively, and they play hard."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nb...

BRIGGS @ 11/4/2016 12:54 AM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
anrst wrote:this is an isiah thomas type team. just parts. no fit. no plan.

I think the parts fit with the starters. DRose need to distribute better, so does Melo, but the pieces make sense.

The bench does not make sense though, which is a big problem.

But I think the starters can make sense in time - the Memphis game showed that, as did parts of the Detroit game.


Yeah a lot of this is a bit overstated. Yes the team has had a couple of putrid games but you can see how they COULD play much better if they get on the same page and develop some chemistry.

I do think that trying to force a strict Triangle is a mistake. This team is not ready to play like that exclusively. If I'm Jeff I would refuse to go out like that. I'd start putting in more of my own stuff cuz it makes no sense to have your own modern system that players like but hold it back just to try and make the players learn the Triangle at this point. If Rose and Noah were there for the entire preseason perhaps it would've made a huge difference but even then I still wouldn't run a primarily Triangle dominant offense with these players.

We have a bunch of guys that are natural PnR players and now for some reason Jeff isn't running PnR at the level he said he wanted to coming into the season. That doesn't make any sense. This is not to say you totally abandon the Triangle but there's really no reason to not be using all the stuff that Jeff ran that Steve Kerr was so impressed with that he said he stole some of his plays and was inspired by what he saw Jeff doing and brought that similar approach to GS.

THIS IS THE GUY I THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING!!!

Part of what built Kerr's confidence and model for the job was watching Jeff Hornacek, his former 1988-89 Suns teammate, take over Phoenix last season and guide the Suns to a 48-34 season.

"Jeff and I are pretty similar personalities," Kerr said. "There's a lot of fire inside, but pretty calm and laid-back at the same time. I think players appreciate that. You don't want a huge emotional ride every single day, but you've got to have some direction and some fire. So I looked at Jeff and the job he did last year and the success he had, and I drew inspiration from that. I still watch him and watch his team with a lot of respect. They do a lot of really innovative things offensively, and they play hard."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nb...

nixluva--they coach in many cases are as good as the players. There is a lot of things wrong personnel wise and its been evident as weve been blowout 3 times pre eason 3 times regular season. Really if we get smoked out tomorrow --Id honestly think about changing some of these players whether it be line up or even trade. You cant continue to get blown out and say oh well be good--nope we better bring it from now on and show some pride. We were not even competitive at home against Rockets.

nixluva @ 11/4/2016 1:40 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
anrst wrote:this is an isiah thomas type team. just parts. no fit. no plan.

I think the parts fit with the starters. DRose need to distribute better, so does Melo, but the pieces make sense.

The bench does not make sense though, which is a big problem.

But I think the starters can make sense in time - the Memphis game showed that, as did parts of the Detroit game.


Yeah a lot of this is a bit overstated. Yes the team has had a couple of putrid games but you can see how they COULD play much better if they get on the same page and develop some chemistry.

I do think that trying to force a strict Triangle is a mistake. This team is not ready to play like that exclusively. If I'm Jeff I would refuse to go out like that. I'd start putting in more of my own stuff cuz it makes no sense to have your own modern system that players like but hold it back just to try and make the players learn the Triangle at this point. If Rose and Noah were there for the entire preseason perhaps it would've made a huge difference but even then I still wouldn't run a primarily Triangle dominant offense with these players.

We have a bunch of guys that are natural PnR players and now for some reason Jeff isn't running PnR at the level he said he wanted to coming into the season. That doesn't make any sense. This is not to say you totally abandon the Triangle but there's really no reason to not be using all the stuff that Jeff ran that Steve Kerr was so impressed with that he said he stole some of his plays and was inspired by what he saw Jeff doing and brought that similar approach to GS.

THIS IS THE GUY I THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING!!!

Part of what built Kerr's confidence and model for the job was watching Jeff Hornacek, his former 1988-89 Suns teammate, take over Phoenix last season and guide the Suns to a 48-34 season.

"Jeff and I are pretty similar personalities," Kerr said. "There's a lot of fire inside, but pretty calm and laid-back at the same time. I think players appreciate that. You don't want a huge emotional ride every single day, but you've got to have some direction and some fire. So I looked at Jeff and the job he did last year and the success he had, and I drew inspiration from that. I still watch him and watch his team with a lot of respect. They do a lot of really innovative things offensively, and they play hard."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nb...

nixluva--they coach in many cases are as good as the players. There is a lot of things wrong personnel wise and its been evident as weve been blowout 3 times pre eason 3 times regular season. Really if we get smoked out tomorrow --Id honestly think about changing some of these players whether it be line up or even trade. You cant continue to get blown out and say oh well be good--nope we better bring it from now on and show some pride. We were not even competitive at home against Rockets.


I understand what you're trying to say but I disagree. This isn't about the actual talent, but rather how it's being used. How these players have absorbed or not absorbed what they've been coached. I think Jeff needs to be Jeff and not move closer to being Phil/Rambis. What it looks like to me is that the Knicks are playing more of a Phil/Rambis style as opposed to doing the things he was successful doing.

Remember that Jeff INSPIRED Kerr. The way Jeff was coaching his teams was NOTHING like what we've seen so far. The so called BLEND is all wrong right now. Jeff talked about pushing the pace and EARLY OFFENSE. He talked about more PnR and a spread floor. THe spacing has been bad and they aren't running enough PnR. It's just not what Jeff likes to do.

When you watched MDA he was 100% running his offense. It was 100% PURE and uncut. Jeff can't do that here with Phil in charge, but surely he can run MUCH more of his stuff than this. That's what we were promised.

Page 1 of 2