Running big lineups with two bigs and Melo at the 3 won't work in the modern NBA
Starting lineup could be:
DRose
CLee
Holiday
Melo
KP
They need the spacing, the ball movement, the quickness on the perimeter with 3 smaller guys who can defend. The shooting upgrade from Noah to Holiday doesn't hurt either.
Mike Breen even just said on the broadcast: "We've talked about it, at this stage in his career, Melo is better suited for the 4."
i am far from a melo hater, but he is killing the team offensively. sure he can score on any given possession (and he does) but the ball stops moving when it gets to him, it's slowing down the offense and to many guys are standing around watching. this year has been especially bad, i can't attribute it to him being a year older, but im wondering if oldman time has caught up to him... it usually happens out of nowhere and with the way he's been moving this year, it certainly looks like it to me.
crzymdups wrote:Running big lineups with two bigs and Melo at the 3 won't work in the modern NBA Starting lineup could be:
DRose
CLee
Holiday
Melo
KP
They need the spacing, the ball movement, the quickness on the perimeter with 3 smaller guys who can defend. The shooting upgrade from Noah to Holiday doesn't hurt either.
Yep they are playing 2 centers and a PF
KP's best game of the season came with Noah on the bench a lot, too 24pts 11rebs
Justin Holiday tonight -
25min 6/7min 16pts 4rebs 2stls +30
crzymdups wrote:KP's best game of the season came with Noah on the bench a lot, too 24pts 11rebs
It was noticeable. But last year he didn't rebound as well without Lopez. One of Melo, KP or Noah probably needs to play on the second unit to balance the team.
CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:KP's best game of the season came with Noah on the bench a lot, too 24pts 11rebs
It was noticeable. But last year he didn't rebound as well without Lopez. One of Melo, KP or Melo probably needs to play on the second unit to balance the team.
I think you can stagger minutes... KP had his season high in rebounds tonight in the game he played center most and the night Noah played his fewest minutes of the season... don't think that's all a coincidence...
crzymdups wrote:CrushAlot wrote:crzymdups wrote:KP's best game of the season came with Noah on the bench a lot, too 24pts 11rebs
It was noticeable. But last year he didn't rebound as well without Lopez. One of Melo, KP or Melo probably needs to play on the second unit to balance the team.
I think you can stagger minutes... KP had his season high in rebounds tonight in the game he played center most and the night Noah played his fewest minutes of the season... don't think that's all a coincidence...
It's not. Noah will take many of his rebounds. When KP plays center, his rebound numbers will go up.
I dont care I just want to win. Im sick of talking about losing all these years. Play the F line up that wins I dont care if Noah has hurt feelings hes also got 75mm reasons not to frown.
crzymdups wrote:
Yeah this has been noticeable for many years. That's one of the many reasons the Noah contract was terrible. Our best option now is to make him a $70 mil bench player.
Melo can't play the 3 anymore, he has slowed and the position has evolved..He was covering a 6'4" player in Powell a few games ago and couldn't keep up..Guys like Powell used to be a shooting guard...We have a team of player playing out of position..Melo is out of position, KP is out of position and Rose may actually be a two...
I dont have a problem with Melo starting at the 3... this is the personnel we have. However the topic is undeniable that Melo is a better 4 at this point than a 5. I mean its 10 games in and I think we are still sorting what we have and what pieces work together.
Holiday looked great, and he offers a really nice defensive look especially when he's on the floor with Lee. That being said expecting what you got from him last night is not realistic.
Right now the ideal rotations seem
3 of these: Rose/Jennings/Lee/Holiday
2 of these: Melo/KP/Noah/Willy
Spot/Fringe: Kuz/Sasha/NDour/Baker/KOQ
offensively he can play either position. But to be honest he doesn't abuse the 3s with his size/strength like he used to. He's more prone to face the basket and dribble into traffic or jab step 6 times but not really move and then shoot a jumper.
Defensively he's more of a liability at this point as a 3
Team seems to thrive when he's at the 4. I would play him there if i were calling the shots
Chandler wrote:offensively he can play either position. But to be honest he doesn't abuse the 3s with his size/strength like he used to. He's more prone to face the basket and dribble into traffic or jab step 6 times but not really move and then shoot a jumper.Defensively he's more of a liability at this point as a 3
Team seems to thrive when he's at the 4. I would play him there if i were calling the shots
Yeah, he gets blocked so often when he tries to take a smaller guy inside now. He's really best as a stretch 4 at this point - he shouldn't even really go inside as much as he once did. He doesn't have the lift down there and he's a hair slow - his shots get swatted all the time now.
But really I'm talking about the defensive side of the ball - Melo can't run out to the three point line chasing SF anymore. KP can't do it for PF either - how many times have we seen KP a step or two slow chasing his man out to the 3pt line.
I think the main reason for this change would be speed on defense. Spacing on offense is a close second.
crzymdups wrote:Chandler wrote:offensively he can play either position. But to be honest he doesn't abuse the 3s with his size/strength like he used to. He's more prone to face the basket and dribble into traffic or jab step 6 times but not really move and then shoot a jumper.Defensively he's more of a liability at this point as a 3
Team seems to thrive when he's at the 4. I would play him there if i were calling the shots
Yeah, he gets blocked so often when he tries to take a smaller guy inside now. He's really best as a stretch 4 at this point - he shouldn't even really go inside as much as he once did. He doesn't have the lift down there and he's a hair slow - his shots get swatted all the time now.
But really I'm talking about the defensive side of the ball - Melo can't run out to the three point line chasing SF anymore. KP can't do it for PF either - how many times have we seen KP a step or two slow chasing his man out to the 3pt line.
I think the main reason for this change would be speed on defense. Spacing on offense is a close second.
agree re Melo. It's speed coupled with a real lack of desire to shut his man down consistently. He's happy to trade baskets (or at least shot attempts). The great ones (e.g., Leonard, Lebron, etc.) want to dominate on both ends, they're that competitive
KP can guard 4 or 5 but his technique at 4 (or even 3) needs work. He's way too upright. He alreay has a huge height advantage. He needs to bend more have a quicker base and be tougher to get around. If he can accomplish that he'll be a terror because he's already so damn coordinated and if that's coupled with those spider arms of his he'll be cutting down passing lanes etc. right now, he's playing too cute. He's sagging too much and hoping to close out and block shots. That doesn't work consistently. A little pump fake and a side step and you're wide open
IMO it's not so much that Melo looks better at the 4 but rather the TEAM operates better when they play smaller and space the floor with perimeter oriented players. So you add Holiday and there's one more quick, agile player who can shoot from the perimeter and defend with range and quickness. Melo is still being Melo. The rest of the team is playing differently tho.
This is not Triangle!
Jeff going with a smaller lineup and then also going to a Spread offense with PnR is a huge move back to his roots. I was calling for this and it was good to see it actually happen. He still can use some of the Principles of the Triangle like Pinch Post, Give and Go stuff without having to give up the Spacing and 3pt shooting he wants.
I think Part of KP's defensive issues may have to do with an ongoing lower back problem. If your back hurts you aren't going to bend and get low very much. It'll be interesting to see if he improves once his back is healthier.
All those in favor of not whining like petulant beeyatches when Melo breaks down playing the 4 night in and night out, raise your foam finger.
All those who think our 200lb wunderkind unicorn is going to last all season playing the five, please send in your red wine for the next Stat bath KP will be taking to magically extend his back and knees and feet. I'm sorry, and I know it was all of just a few months ago, but where did KP end his season? Oh yeah, the bench. In a suit. A really nice suit, too. And don't give me any sheehit about him playing if we had been in playoff contention at the time.
Can they both switch positions for a while? Sure. Wholesale, all year long changes like this? Eff No.
jrodmc wrote:All those in favor of not whining like petulant beeyatches when Melo breaks down playing the 4 night in and night out, raise your foam finger.All those who think our 200lb wunderkind unicorn is going to last all season playing the five, please send in your red wine for the next Stat bath KP will be taking to magically extend his back and knees and feet. I'm sorry, and I know it was all of just a few months ago, but where did KP end his season? Oh yeah, the bench. In a suit. A really nice suit, too. And don't give me any sheehit about him playing if we had been in playoff contention at the time.
Can they both switch positions for a while? Sure. Wholesale, all year long changes like this? Eff No.
Jeff said that he can see using it a bit more but not full time and I think that should be the consensus about Melo and KP at the 4 n 5 spots. You don't need to do it all the time. It can be a smart tactical move when teams go small and you need a spark.
It's also true that this team can play well in a traditional alignment. It's just gonna take time to make the right adjustments and I trust that Jeff and his staff will come up with the right adjustments. Noah isn't the 1st or only big that isn't a shooting threat. As I mentioned before, GS and Bogut were able to make it work and Jeff had Plumlee in the mix in PHX. Jeff knows how to make it work with a guy like Noah. They just have to make some adjustments.
crzymdups wrote:Running big lineups with two bigs and Melo at the 3 won't work in the modern NBA Starting lineup could be:
DRose
CLee
Holiday
Melo
KP
They need the spacing, the ball movement, the quickness on the perimeter with 3 smaller guys who can defend. The shooting upgrade from Noah to Holiday doesn't hurt either.
there are no more sf/pf/c...your either a fwd or a guard, the positions are interchangeable
it's all base on match-ups
