Will, position, leverage and angles. Having the will and knowledge of the rest will make you a very good defender. Of course you will also need adequate lateral movement with good hips. If you can't turn your hips fluidly then defense will be hard.
EnySpree wrote:KP4Life wrote:if you look at the greatest on-ball defenders seems to possess bother elite athleticism AND skill/will. Think about it, Kawai Leonard, Paul George, Lebron, Winslow. All incredible athletes, but then you got guys like Rose, who were never really great on-ball defenders, even before his injury. It makes no sense to me, I guess he just doesn't have the mind for it. But then a guy like Kirk Heinrich or even Stockton, both average athletes, but were very good defenders.
It's very puzzling to me. I actually enjoy playing defense when I play basketball. Its the best way to get in shape by far, way harder on cardio then offense. I'm just a average to below average athlete so it's super hard for me to stay in front of drives.
Where do guys like Bruce Bowen, Alvin Robertson, Metta World peace, raja bell, John starks, Derek Harper, Tony Allen etc fit in the discussion?
Like the point you made with Hinrich and Stockton... it's not about athleticism. Guys got to have the desire and they have to know how to position themselves hide their shortcomings
All the guys you mentioned were good athletes, maybe not ELITE athletes, but good none the less. Hennrich and Stockton were average atheltetes for the nba, imo. But they are rare outliers, being good defenders. Yes, its possible for a guy to make up for his lack of athleticism and still be a good defenders, but it's way harder and rarer.
I hate to turn this into a black vs white guy sort of thing, but lets be honest, how many elite white guard defenders have there been in the last 30 years? Not that many. Point being a great defenders (on-ball at least) requires a certain level of athleticism to be good at.
What I don't get is how a guy like Rose can be so athletic and be a shit defender. I guess it's that he just doesn't have bball IQ for it. 
I agree w a lot of the posts about desire. And I'll add mental fortitude to be consistent thru the game to be effective but boring
But all the he discussion about on ball or one on one troubles me
It's like saying what makes someone good one on one on offense or iso
Sure it's great if you have a team full of superstars but that ain't going to happen
More effective to play team D --consistently every possession-- w a goal to force the other team to take tougher shots, harder passes etc. over the course of the game you'll be effective e
Celts won w good effective D from bird mchale and ainge
More recently GS has been effective w several guys not being your first choice for D
It is all that but best defenders play their heart out with their mind. Get 5 guys play like that, team go long way.
Defense is predominantly effort - of course otherworldly athleticism can great some amazing defenders. Kawhi is a great defender because of his wing span and massive hands.
But even guys who give good effort can be made to look like bad defenders if the whole team isn't on the same page. Needs to be five guys on a string.
NYKBocker wrote:Will, position, leverage and angles. Having the will and knowledge of the rest will make you a very good defender. Of course you will also need adequate lateral movement with good hips. If you can't turn your hips fluidly then defense will be hard.
Yea DEDICATION to conditioning is another good one.
NBA defense is mostly mental. It's all about situational defensive strategy. Offenses today are going to force you to make decisions as a defense. Curry gets a double down screen, are you going to chase it and give him daylight or just switch it? Then they flow right into Curry/Dray PNR, gotta double curry on that and give Green the short roll and hope your rim protector plays it perfectly but Green will probably go to the line. Or you can switch again and put a PF onto Steph 1 on 1. Or you can drop your big and fight over but Steph will probably attack and just nail a floater. It's all about exposing a teams weakness and deciding what you are willing to give up. Help defense and rotations are more important than sticking the guy with the ball.
Desire. As has been mentioned, you talk to 10 basketball trainers, and 95% of what they harp on is offensive moves, shots, drives to the basket, sealing off in the low post, etc etc etc. None of these people will show you clips on their site about defensive drills. And from what I've seen, it's an AAU disease. Everyone wants to dunk or hit the three.
I play pick up with a bunch of BoingVert steroidal maniacs... they spend all their down time practicing tomahawks, 30 foot and longer threes, and alley oops. All energy is spent on offense. I'm 54 and not one of them bothers to play any defense.
Defense is simple; take charge of the offensive possession. Make the ball react to you, don't wait to react to the ball. That simple concept freaks most players out. Get a hand in their face, you don't need to leave your feet on every pump fake and move to the basket. Stick a hand in their face and it normally disrupts their shot. It also takes a tremendous amount of energy to do all this consistently. The few players I've seen that exert some energy on defense are constantly looking for the noisy block into the fourteenth row. Like boxing out, following your shot, and constantly moving without the ball, defense is the boring, grind it out part of the game.
A freak athlete can be a great defender. It's a choice though. MJ used to say, "all that dunking takes a lot of energy".
gunsnewing wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Will, position, leverage and angles. Having the will and knowledge of the rest will make you a very good defender. Of course you will also need adequate lateral movement with good hips. If you can't turn your hips fluidly then defense will be hard.
Yea DEDICATION to conditioning is another good one.
Yup. Also, defense really is just making your opponent uncomfortable and do things he does not normally do. For guys like Sprewell..you force him left. For guys like Rose..you force him to shoot outside shots. For KP..you get really physical with him. Just figure what the other guy wants to do and take that away.
KP4Life wrote:reason I ask is cause I'm baffled a guy with derrick roses athleticism is a bad defender. Staying in front of a guy takes speed,doesn't it? I mean, by that logic Ricky Rubio should be a worse defender than derrick because he's def less athletic. But its not true, Rubio is a much better defender. Maybe derrick just doesn't have the mind for it? Being able to predict a players moves and remember his tendencies. Maybe its just a lack of will?
"Effort" is the word i'd use.
Of course it's both but you need the athleticism. There are a lot of great college players who worked that asses off, but can't play in the NBA because they are not athletic enough and usually it's more of a liability on defense than offense.
Someone used Larry Bird as an example of a good defender who was not a great athlete. Larry was a good defender on that team but he had a few big advantages:
1) He wore guys out trying to shut him down.
2) The celtics played great team defense and he had great defenders around him that covered a lot of his short comings.
I think if he was a lessor offensive player and played on a team with less great defenders around him his defense would been sub par.
Attitude, effort and skill are all needed - but athleticism is a must for a really good defender.
Since I'm a 2 way player, i figured I entertain this subject. The answer is both.
But with today's rules, lock down defense on guards are becoming extinct. Also some players understand where their money comes from, so they play a little harder on offense and less on defense.
