You know what this team we have now needs as a final piece?? One of Devin Booker or Klay Thompson. I do like C.Lee and J.Holiday but if we could put a knock down shooter at SG we'd be a very good team, C.Lee was supposed to be our 3-D guy but he hasn't been that yet besides his defense has been pretty good but i've seen him pass up open 3 point shots and i don't understand why he's not shooting more 3 balls. I saw not to long ago that Klay was supposedly on the trade block but have no idea if true but i would offer them pretty much whatever besides KP for him even though i'm sure KP is exactly who they'd want and i love me some D.Booker to.
newyorker4ever wrote:You know what this team we have now needs as a final piece?? One of Devin Booker or Klay Thompson. I do like C.Lee and J.Holiday but if we could put a knock down shooter at SG we'd be a very good team, C.Lee was supposed to be our 3-D guy but he hasn't been that yet besides his defense has been pretty good but i've seen him pass up open 3 point shots and i don't understand why he's not shooting more 3 balls. I saw not to long ago that Klay was supposedly on the trade block but have no idea if true but i would offer them pretty much whatever besides KP for him even though i'm sure KP is exactly who they'd want and i love me some D.Booker to.
So Booker and Klay are kinda bad examples. Both Lee and Holiday are shooting 42% from 3s. Booker coming in this year at 28% (career 33%) and Klay is at 34% (career 42%).
Both Lee and Holiday just need to find their mojo on 2 point shots.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:This notion that "Since the present won't yield a desirable result, then "Tank" for a better tomorrow"....Is interesting, but this is not how we are constructed.
The only "bad" contract we have might be Noah. The only way I consider a "tank" is if come trade deadline a team, or combo of such makes a strong push for some of our players in return for potential type assets.
By that, someone wants Derrick rose for a big push and has assets, then I would consider it. For example, a lottery pick. Sounds silly, but if we are not playoff bound, or on the bubble, and deem Rose not resignable for a myriad of reasons, then I agree.
or If the Deandre Jordan is slow to recover from an injury and they want Noah, and Willy is able to step in, then Im OK.
I suppose there are lots of tangibles.
Agreed, you just don't tank to tank. Teams try it every year, most fail. We lucked into KP for a variety of factors. Usually luck is involved with adding young talent and turning it into wins. We need to stay the course and build continuity. It's a better situation for KP. We have our draft picks and can draft good players whether we tank or not.
And we didn't go into the season with tanking on our mind. We were trying to win that year.
martin wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:You know what this team we have now needs as a final piece?? One of Devin Booker or Klay Thompson. I do like C.Lee and J.Holiday but if we could put a knock down shooter at SG we'd be a very good team, C.Lee was supposed to be our 3-D guy but he hasn't been that yet besides his defense has been pretty good but i've seen him pass up open 3 point shots and i don't understand why he's not shooting more 3 balls. I saw not to long ago that Klay was supposedly on the trade block but have no idea if true but i would offer them pretty much whatever besides KP for him even though i'm sure KP is exactly who they'd want and i love me some D.Booker to.
So Booker and Klay are kinda bad examples. Both Lee and Holiday are shooting 42% from 3s. Booker coming in this year at 28% (career 33%) and Klay is at 34% (career 42%).
Both Lee and Holiday just need to find their mojo on 2 point shots.
I like our guards. They can play 2 way ball and our guards haven't even hit stride yet. I don't think any of them have hit peak yet. Plus we still have Baker and maybe down the line Randle comes back. The more these guys are playing together under Jeff the more comfortable they're looking. We have to remember this is still only 13 games into the season.
Knicks67 wrote:Vmart wrote:I agree we can never have enough unicorns. If the next 10 games doesn't produce a 7-3 record I don't see the reason not to tank. The Knicks still need that other player to go with KP6. I don't see Melo being around after his contract ends. Which after that we will have just KP.
Not many contenders are built on the back of one player, it takes a pair even trio of good quality players. If this means going to find those players for Kristaps in the draft I'm all for it. I'd also ship Melo for young talent before he does leave to get something back (if he's leaving you can talk to him and have him lift the clause perhaps).
I don't think he is leaving. He has waited for teammates that can play at a high level for a long time and likes new york. Not sure what he would bring at the deadline in 2019 but that is pretty far in the future.
CrushAlot wrote:Knicks67 wrote:Vmart wrote:I agree we can never have enough unicorns. If the next 10 games doesn't produce a 7-3 record I don't see the reason not to tank. The Knicks still need that other player to go with KP6. I don't see Melo being around after his contract ends. Which after that we will have just KP.
Not many contenders are built on the back of one player, it takes a pair even trio of good quality players. If this means going to find those players for Kristaps in the draft I'm all for it. I'd also ship Melo for young talent before he does leave to get something back (if he's leaving you can talk to him and have him lift the clause perhaps).
I don't think he is leaving. He has waited for teammates that can play at a high level for a long time and likes new york. Not sure what he would bring at the deadline in 2019 but that is pretty far in the future.
I don't know why some are down on Melo as much as they are. They can't even tell you who we'd draft that would be a better player or give us a better chance at a Title. It's all fantasy at this point.
We've got a lot of season left to see what this roster can do. Plenty of time to see if this can work or not.
martin wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:You know what this team we have now needs as a final piece?? One of Devin Booker or Klay Thompson. I do like C.Lee and J.Holiday but if we could put a knock down shooter at SG we'd be a very good team, C.Lee was supposed to be our 3-D guy but he hasn't been that yet besides his defense has been pretty good but i've seen him pass up open 3 point shots and i don't understand why he's not shooting more 3 balls. I saw not to long ago that Klay was supposedly on the trade block but have no idea if true but i would offer them pretty much whatever besides KP for him even though i'm sure KP is exactly who they'd want and i love me some D.Booker to.
So Booker and Klay are kinda bad examples. Both Lee and Holiday are shooting 42% from 3s. Booker coming in this year at 28% (career 33%) and Klay is at 34% (career 42%).
Both Lee and Holiday just need to find their mojo on 2 point shots.
Yeah but we all know that both D.Booker and Klay are better shooters than those numbers and Lee hasn't really even attempted all that many 3's. You don't think we'd be a better team with either one of those guys as our starting SG over C.Lee? I love Lee and Holiday but i'd jump all over upgrading at SG with one of Klay/Devin
Knicks67 wrote:Vmart wrote:I agree we can never have enough unicorns. If the next 10 games doesn't produce a 7-3 record I don't see the reason not to tank. The Knicks still need that other player to go with KP6. I don't see Melo being around after his contract ends. Which after that we will have just KP.
Not many contenders are built on the back of one player, it takes a pair even trio of good quality players. If this means going to find those players for Kristaps in the draft I'm all for it. I'd also ship Melo for young talent before he does leave to get something back (if he's leaving you can talk to him and have him lift the clause perhaps).
I thought after hearing all last year on here about trading Melo that i wouldn't have to keep hearing it this year but here we go again so here i go again...MELO IS NOT GONNA WAIVE HIS NO TRADE CLAUSE, HE WANTS TO PLAY IN NEW YORK AND BE A NEW YORK KNICK AND HE'S DEFINITELY NOT GONNA LEAVE NOW THAT PHIL HAS GOT THIS TEAM IN SUCH A GOOD PLACE AND SHOULD BE IN A EVEN BETTER PLACE NEXT SEASON.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW??????
KP4Life wrote:do we all agree we should just tank? This next draft is very good. It just makes sense to tank, sadly. We need to look to the future guys. Lets get us a Josh Jackson or Fultz. The draft can completely change a teams future. What if we didn't tank and get KP? We would be in an even worse position now then before.
This really is the one of the most ridiculous/ moronic posts ever. Not the fact that in the future depending on injuries and or record something you might look at ( after 50 games?) but after 20-22 games??? What are you f'in kidding me? So we go 6-4 or 5-5 now we are going to tank the rest of the season? Really??? And how do we do that? Trade Melo? Not going anywhere right now. Rose ? Just trade him after 22 games? Jennings? Lee? Noah? Just not play these guys? You get 10 new guys, 2 main guys miss trying camp and now after 22 games we are TANKING for the SEASON??? What a dumbazz post. Jeez!!!
Great, yet another tank thread. Can't all you I love the lottery losers just move to inner city Philadelphia and stay there?
newyorker4ever wrote:You know what this team we have now needs as a final piece?? One of Devin Booker or Klay Thompson. I do like C.Lee and J.Holiday but if we could put a knock down shooter at SG we'd be a very good team, C.Lee was supposed to be our 3-D guy but he hasn't been that yet besides his defense has been pretty good but i've seen him pass up open 3 point shots and i don't understand why he's not shooting more 3 balls. I saw not to long ago that Klay was supposedly on the trade block but have no idea if true but i would offer them pretty much whatever besides KP for him even though i'm sure KP is exactly who they'd want and i love me some D.Booker to.
I agree 100% we need a sg who is a 40% 3point shooter, the problem is we need that and everyone currently on the roster, you can't take away from one part of the roster to add to another part
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:I've been as big a fan of rebuilding the right way - but I liked what I saw against Atlanta and the other games as well.Maybe Phil has something. I do like that the players spoke up about the BS triangle.
If they are 5 & 5 over the next ten, you don't blow it up.
Maybe if they are 2 & 8, you start to consider it, but they are starting to make moves in the right direction.
Its early, but slowly they are starting to look like the team that the rose colored glass wearing fans think can win 40-50 games.
I've never understood this type of comment. There are several types of ways to rebuild and not one of them is the exact, gold standard solution.
What I mean by the right way is the opposite of what Dolan has done for the last 15 years where we trade youth and picks for broken down players that we think will magically transform us into Champions.
I wasn't a fan of the Noah contract or the rose trade. I would rather have held onto what we had, and perhaps added a player like Jennings and some of the Euro players that came in. And then yes, had perhaps growing pains and stunk this year, but landed a real good draft pick and added another KP like talent.
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:I've been as big a fan of rebuilding the right way - but I liked what I saw against Atlanta and the other games as well.Maybe Phil has something. I do like that the players spoke up about the BS triangle.
If they are 5 & 5 over the next ten, you don't blow it up.
Maybe if they are 2 & 8, you start to consider it, but they are starting to make moves in the right direction.
Its early, but slowly they are starting to look like the team that the rose colored glass wearing fans think can win 40-50 games.
I've never understood this type of comment. There are several types of ways to rebuild and not one of them is the exact, gold standard solution.
What I mean by the right way is the opposite of what Dolan has done for the last 15 years where we trade youth and picks for broken down players that we think will magically transform us into Champions.
I wasn't a fan of the Noah contract or the rose trade. I would rather have held onto what we had, and perhaps added a player like Jennings and some of the Euro players that came in. And then yes, had perhaps growing pains and stunk this year, but landed a real good draft pick and added another KP like talent.
ADD ANOTHER KP LIKE TALENT????
Dude guys like KP come around once in a life time, you think phil would have been able to sustain his job or his reputation if he has another lottery season. That would be 4 straight in the biggest market in the world..
jrodmc wrote:Great, yet another tank thread. Can't all you I love the lottery losers just move to inner city Philadelphia and stay there?
Says the guy who probably has a Ewing Jersey and picked up a KP6 Jersey.
Vmart wrote:jrodmc wrote:Great, yet another tank thread. Can't all you I love the lottery losers just move to inner city Philadelphia and stay there?
Says the guy who probably has a Ewing Jersey and picked up a KP6 Jersey.
I would think that is a staple for all Knick fans.
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:I've been as big a fan of rebuilding the right way - but I liked what I saw against Atlanta and the other games as well.Maybe Phil has something. I do like that the players spoke up about the BS triangle.
If they are 5 & 5 over the next ten, you don't blow it up.
Maybe if they are 2 & 8, you start to consider it, but they are starting to make moves in the right direction.
Its early, but slowly they are starting to look like the team that the rose colored glass wearing fans think can win 40-50 games.
I've never understood this type of comment. There are several types of ways to rebuild and not one of them is the exact, gold standard solution.
What I mean by the right way is the opposite of what Dolan has done for the last 15 years where we trade youth and picks for broken down players that we think will magically transform us into Champions.
I wasn't a fan of the Noah contract or the rose trade. I would rather have held onto what we had, and perhaps added a player like Jennings and some of the Euro players that came in. And then yes, had perhaps growing pains and stunk this year, but landed a real good draft pick and added another KP like talent.
Our main mistake over the past 15yrs was trading unprotected first rounders. Doesn't matter how you choose to rebuild (teams have had success and failure with every method), if you keep your picks you're insured if it all goes horrifically wrong.
knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:I've been as big a fan of rebuilding the right way - but I liked what I saw against Atlanta and the other games as well.Maybe Phil has something. I do like that the players spoke up about the BS triangle.
If they are 5 & 5 over the next ten, you don't blow it up.
Maybe if they are 2 & 8, you start to consider it, but they are starting to make moves in the right direction.
Its early, but slowly they are starting to look like the team that the rose colored glass wearing fans think can win 40-50 games.
I've never understood this type of comment. There are several types of ways to rebuild and not one of them is the exact, gold standard solution.
What I mean by the right way is the opposite of what Dolan has done for the last 15 years where we trade youth and picks for broken down players that we think will magically transform us into Champions.
I wasn't a fan of the Noah contract or the rose trade. I would rather have held onto what we had, and perhaps added a player like Jennings and some of the Euro players that came in. And then yes, had perhaps growing pains and stunk this year, but landed a real good draft pick and added another KP like talent.
ADD ANOTHER KP LIKE TALENT????
Dude guys like KP come around once in a life time, you think phil would have been able to sustain his job or his reputation if he has another lottery season. That would be 4 straight in the biggest market in the world..
4 straight after 15 straight? I think he would get a pass, though his insistence on running the triangle when it seems players in today's NBA don't have the skills for that system - and then turning over the roster completely year after year doesn't help.
knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:I've been as big a fan of rebuilding the right way - but I liked what I saw against Atlanta and the other games as well.Maybe Phil has something. I do like that the players spoke up about the BS triangle.
If they are 5 & 5 over the next ten, you don't blow it up.
Maybe if they are 2 & 8, you start to consider it, but they are starting to make moves in the right direction.
Its early, but slowly they are starting to look like the team that the rose colored glass wearing fans think can win 40-50 games.
I've never understood this type of comment. There are several types of ways to rebuild and not one of them is the exact, gold standard solution.
What I mean by the right way is the opposite of what Dolan has done for the last 15 years where we trade youth and picks for broken down players that we think will magically transform us into Champions.
I wasn't a fan of the Noah contract or the rose trade. I would rather have held onto what we had, and perhaps added a player like Jennings and some of the Euro players that came in. And then yes, had perhaps growing pains and stunk this year, but landed a real good draft pick and added another KP like talent.
ADD ANOTHER KP LIKE TALENT????
Dude guys like KP come around once in a life time, you think phil would have been able to sustain his job or his reputation if he has another lottery season. That would be 4 straight in the biggest market in the world..
KP like - available every year in the top five of the draft usually. I'm not saying another 7'3" player with crazy skills - but some young player who is going to be a starter for years to come, who can produce above average at his position. And yes, its a roll of the dice every year.
franco12 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:I've been as big a fan of rebuilding the right way - but I liked what I saw against Atlanta and the other games as well.Maybe Phil has something. I do like that the players spoke up about the BS triangle.
If they are 5 & 5 over the next ten, you don't blow it up.
Maybe if they are 2 & 8, you start to consider it, but they are starting to make moves in the right direction.
Its early, but slowly they are starting to look like the team that the rose colored glass wearing fans think can win 40-50 games.
I've never understood this type of comment. There are several types of ways to rebuild and not one of them is the exact, gold standard solution.
What I mean by the right way is the opposite of what Dolan has done for the last 15 years where we trade youth and picks for broken down players that we think will magically transform us into Champions.
I wasn't a fan of the Noah contract or the rose trade. I would rather have held onto what we had, and perhaps added a player like Jennings and some of the Euro players that came in. And then yes, had perhaps growing pains and stunk this year, but landed a real good draft pick and added another KP like talent.
ADD ANOTHER KP LIKE TALENT????
Dude guys like KP come around once in a life time, you think phil would have been able to sustain his job or his reputation if he has another lottery season. That would be 4 straight in the biggest market in the world..
KP like - available every year in the top five of the draft usually. I'm not saying another 7'3" player with crazy skills - but some young player who is going to be a starter for years to come, who can produce above average at his position. And yes, its a roll of the dice every year.
do you follow the draft? Guys like KP come out every year? No they dont. You also assume that we make the perfect pic which is not realistic either. The best franchises in the NBA whiff in the draft. It happens. There is a window here with Melo, KP and the ability to add some pieces to make the playoffs and hopefully more. They went that route. Always easy to say I dont like this guy or that guy and we should have stood pat.
Vmart wrote:jrodmc wrote:Great, yet another tank thread. Can't all you I love the lottery losers just move to inner city Philadelphia and stay there?
Says the guy who probably has a Ewing Jersey and picked up a KP6 Jersey.
Vmart - We tanked for 5 years to get Ewing? Phil tanked for 5 years to get KP6? My point is about the stupidity of the Hinkie model of tanking as a way of life.
It's not about being in the lottery once every 10 years, it's about destroying your franchise 10 games into the season to stockpile more. Lather, rinse, repeat. Count up all those Sixer wins these past 5 years while they're stockpiling all those picks. Where's MCW?
And by the way, how many years are there exactly between 1985 and 2015?
And I didn't buy a KP jersey yet. 
Backbone of 11-2 spurs are now Kwahi who was taken @ 15th pick and Lamarcus Aldridge (Eddy reference) signed as free agent.
How Spurs get 15th pick? Drafted George Hill at 26th , developed him, then traded him for the pick.
Tony Parker was 28th pick. Manu, 56th pick. Patience and intelligence pays off.
Willy was a great pick. Maybe we trade him for a first rounder if we like. If Plum can fill that role, then Willy becomes tradable.
If Plum develops, maybe we can do the same.
This is how smart teams work. Fans can't see this cuz its not starphuchedly possible. We want to make immediate changes. Its what fans do.
