Phil Jackson's smaller moves have worked out much better than his bigger ones. He defenitely knows how to get talent out of a draft or scouting situation with limited money. This may be his true strength. O'Quinn's play this year has been much better. More importantly it shows that Phil knows talent. He's been extremely limited with resources when it comes to young players. He hasn't had much at his disposal in draft picks. The one draft pick he had he nailed for a homerun in Porzingis. He's gotten very solid pieces in Lance Thomas, O'Quinn, Hernangomez and Holiday for very cheap.
Too much has been made about Jackson's inability to run the franchise and crashing it into the ground. The way I see it, summer 2017, Knicks have a maximum slot available for a star PG or a star running mate to pair with Porzingis and Melo. The Rose deal has not hurt us at all even if Rose does not play like an all-star as a Knick. He's an expiring contracr and we got Holiday out of the deal as well.
The one move that Phil may ultimately regret big time is the Noah contract. Noah's not been able to make an impact for us defensively or on offense. O'Quinn stepped in for him and the offense looked better with a scoring threat like him. O'Quinn was also very active on defense. O'Quinn makes less than $5 million a year vs Noah's $18 million. I like Noah's competitive spirt but we need to find a better role for him. I know it's only been 13 games but I don't see him a starter next to KP and Melo next 2 years. O'Quinn is younger, plays with more energy. I think Noah should come off the bench.
Starters
O'Quinn
Porzingis
Melo
Lee
Rose
Bench
Hernangomez/Noah
Porzingis/Melo
Thomas/Kuzminskas
Holiday
Jennings
Closing lineup
Porzingis
Melo
Holiday/Lee
Rose
Jennings
nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson's smaller moves have worked out much better than his bigger ones. He defenitely knows how to get talent out of a draft or scouting situation with limited money. This may be his true strength. O'Quinn's play this year has been much better. More importantly it shows that Phil knows talent. He's been extremely limited with resources when it comes to young players. He hasn't had much at his disposal in draft picks. The one draft pick he had he nailed for a homerun in Porzingis. He's gotten very solid pieces in Lance Thomas, O'Quinn, Hernangomez and Holiday for very cheap. Too much has been made about Jackson's inability to run the franchise and crashing it into the ground. The way I see it, summer 2017, Knicks have a maximum slot available for a star PG or a star running mate to pair with Porzingis and Melo. The Rose deal has not hurt us at all even if Rose does not play like an all-star as a Knick. He's an expiring contracr and we got Holiday out of the deal as well.
The one move that Phil may ultimately regret big time is the Noah contract. Noah's not been able to make an impact for us defensively or on offense. O'Quinn stepped in for him and the offense looked better with a scoring threat like him. O'Quinn was also very active on defense. O'Quinn makes less than $5 million a year vs Noah's $18 million. I like Noah's competitive spirt but we need to find a better role for him. I know it's only been 13 games but I don't see him a starter next to KP and Melo next 2 years. O'Quinn is younger, plays with more energy. I think Noah should come off the bench.
Starters
O'Quinn
Porzingis
Melo
Lee
Rose
Bench
Hernangomez/Noah
Porzingis/Melo
Thomas/Kuzminskas
Holiday
Jennings
Closing lineup
Porzingis
Melo
Holiday/Lee
Rose
Jennings
I think you have made fair points. I feel Phil has done better with the smaller moves. Obviously his biggest move is drafting KP and he deserves credit for that. However as much as I like Noah and wanted him here that contract was not a good idea. I would have been more happy with a 2 year deal. The Hernangomez deal was also a real good move. I really like this young man. he is tough, smart ,and has a good motor.
Honestly I'd rather start Willy, more upside in the long run and OQuinn is playing well in his current role.
lets not go overboard. Although Noah has not lived up to double double expectations, he could still get there. all i know is that we better not have a flu-son chandler'ish winter for him, else i'll be pissed at that 17 mill. i doubt it considering he played in chicago.
Noah gives us 65 games and playoffs, he is worth it.
Don't fret on the future, it takes care of itself.
I think this is probably the biggest success of his tenure here - finding diamonds in the rough. Forget about just this season's small acquisition, look at the guys we didn't resign in the off season and other minor transactions... Westchester actually appears to be a legitimate minor league system. Miami and San Antonio always seem to find ballers under rocks... seems Phil has that ability too
Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
Cartman718 wrote:lets not go overboard. Although Noah has not lived up to double double expectations, he could still get there. all i know is that we better not have a flu-son chandler'ish winter for him, else i'll be pissed at that 17 mill. i doubt it considering he played in chicago.
lol, totally forgot about the human anti-immune system Tyson Chandler.
Knixkik wrote:Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
I'm trying to assess that in context: available salary cap, record, etc. 2 Years ago Knicks came off of a 17 game win season and got AA, DWill, Rolo, KOQ, Serephin? Last year at 32 wins and CLee, Noah, Jennings, Cuz?
Do big name free agents go to teams under .500?
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
I'm trying to assess that in context: available salary cap, record, etc. 2 Years ago Knicks came off of a 17 game win season and got AA, DWill, Rolo, KOQ, Serephin? Last year at 32 wins and CLee, Noah, Jennings, Cuz?
Do big name free agents go to teams under .500?
exactly...even boston didn't really attract anyone big name in the FA market
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
I'm trying to assess that in context: available salary cap, record, etc. 2 Years ago Knicks came off of a 17 game win season and got AA, DWill, Rolo, KOQ, Serephin? Last year at 32 wins and CLee, Noah, Jennings, Cuz?
Do big name free agents go to teams under .500?
no, unless they are a notch below franchise player, but get paid like a franchise player
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
I'm trying to assess that in context: available salary cap, record, etc. 2 Years ago Knicks came off of a 17 game win season and got AA, DWill, Rolo, KOQ, Serephin? Last year at 32 wins and CLee, Noah, Jennings, Cuz?
Do big name free agents go to teams under .500?
Not typically. But when Phil arrived, he was supposed to be the exception to the rule. Not saying it was fair. It was his name and money he was paid. But if you take all that out of it, few can argue that he hasn't done a solid job here. He has only added draft pick and has done well in the draft.
From what I see--this team is better without Noah. You dont have to guard Noah past a few feet--the other guys not so much.
I still LOVE the addition of Noah cuz he has the right approach to the game. He's intense. He works hard and gives everything he has. He rebounds, defends and passes the ball and does whatever the team needs. The young bigs on this team have no doubt learned a lot already from Noah IMO. They do speak of him very positively.
We all know Noah isn't the future, but Phil was buying his INTANGIBLES as much as his actual playing ability. At some point winning teams need guys like Noah or David West or aging KG's in order to show the young players how it's done. I think Phil rightly put a high price on that part of the formula for winning. You think Noah would be a good influence for the Sixers?
BRIGGS wrote:From what I see--this team is better without Noah. You dont have to guard Noah past a few feet--the other guys not so much.
Were they better 2 games ago beating Detroit when Noah had 15 boards, 3 assists and 3 blocks in 25 minutes? Were they better then?
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:From what I see--this team is better without Noah. You dont have to guard Noah past a few feet--the other guys not so much.
Were they better 2 games ago beating Detroit when Noah had 15 boards, 3 assists and 3 blocks in 25 minutes? Were they better then?
Not to mention the Chicago game.
It should be matchup dependent, but he will be valuable some games.
Ask the Warriors how much they miss Bogut this year (and in games 5, 6 and 7 of the Finals) - even though he played only 20 minutes for the Warriors, he was still very valuable to have some games. I think Noah will be the same.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
I'm trying to assess that in context: available salary cap, record, etc. 2 Years ago Knicks came off of a 17 game win season and got AA, DWill, Rolo, KOQ, Serephin? Last year at 32 wins and CLee, Noah, Jennings, Cuz?
Do big name free agents go to teams under .500?
Not typically. But when Phil arrived, he was supposed to be the exception to the rule. Not saying it was fair. It was his name and money he was paid. But if you take all that out of it, few can argue that he hasn't done a solid job here. He has only added draft pick and has done well in the draft.
Not sure why we are grading on a different scale for Phil, for me that's just the media spitting out crap and having it stick.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:Noah probably wasn't a smart move for the money considering Porzingis should play center and O'Quinn and Willy have both been solid when given time. But Noah is still this team's emotional leader and his value will show at different times during the season and during his tenure with the Knicks. He has a role here, regardless of whether he is starting or not. I agree that Phil has been solid with the smaller value signings. And had he not made the mistake he admitted to when turning down Jae Crowder as part of the Dallas deal for Calderon, it would add even more to this argument. He was hired to build a culture that would attract big names. He hasn't done that. We didn't expect his best work as a President would be the draft and diamond in the rough pickups.
I'm trying to assess that in context: available salary cap, record, etc. 2 Years ago Knicks came off of a 17 game win season and got AA, DWill, Rolo, KOQ, Serephin? Last year at 32 wins and CLee, Noah, Jennings, Cuz?
Do big name free agents go to teams under .500?
Not typically. But when Phil arrived, he was supposed to be the exception to the rule. Not saying it was fair. It was his name and money he was paid. But if you take all that out of it, few can argue that he hasn't done a solid job here. He has only added draft pick and has done well in the draft.
Not sure why we are grading on a different scale for Phil, for me that's just the media spitting out crap and having it stick.
Agreed. Which is why i think he has done a nice job. Some hiccups, but good overall.
You guys still need to give this team time cause they're not playing as a team as much as they should be in another 15-20 games or so. J.Hornacek is doing a good job of choosing when to play his guys and there's been times that both Noah and Rose are sitting on the bench for much longer than you normally see starters sit for when JH is playing the matchups. I love having Noah here and he brings soooo much more to a team then what you see in games and neither him or Rose have their legs under them yet so i know it's tough to be patient but this team is still coming together.
Noah might be trade bait come February.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:From what I see--this team is better without Noah. You dont have to guard Noah past a few feet--the other guys not so much.
Were they better 2 games ago beating Detroit when Noah had 15 boards, 3 assists and 3 blocks in 25 minutes? Were they better then?
Drummond walked all over Noah in that game.
