Knicks · I like hornaceks rotation (page 1)

Even though he plays different guys at different times, and his rotation is locked down. He doesn't just play guys for the sake of giving them playing time, he doenst yank guys out when their hot, or the team is flowing.

That use to kill me with Fisher and Rambis train of thought. They use to play guys so they wont be rusty, playing 12 guys 6 minutes into the game even though we would have the lead and flowing.

Now we make rotation adjustments because of match ups

I like Willy for KP as the first substitution. Willy plays big and KP gets to run with the second unit. I agree about his rotations. He isn't locked into guys. I was hoping for the Jennings/Rose backcourt in the fourth but it didn't make sense with Charlotte's size.

CrushAlot wrote:I like Willy for KP as the first substitution. Willy plays big and KP gets to run with the second unit. I agree about his rotations. He isn't locked into guys. I was hoping for the Jennings/Rose backcourt in the fourth but it didn't make sense with Charlotte's size.

Exactly, he didn't put noah in because he's a starter with a big contract. Its just seems like he's much more in control of what he wants to do, and has shown the ability to adjust on the fly, or in the 2nd half.

Yes, Hornacek has been great. He sees things that work in games and sticks with them. Too often in previous seasons we have had something that works and go away from it. The NBA is all about making team adjust to stop what you're throwing at them and Hornacek is really good at that.

I have been much happier with hornacek. Phil corrected his mistake

We have a real nba coach.... that is all. Go Knicks

It seems that what has been working is Noah on the bench, KP at the five and Melo at the four. I know it won't happen but I'd trade Noah for a small forward (Crabbe?)and move KP and Melo to their best positions. We'd still have O'quinn, Willy and Plumlee (who can play) to back up KP in the middle.

crzymdups wrote:Yes, Hornacek has been great. He sees things that work in games and sticks with them. Too often in previous seasons we have had something that works and go away from it. The NBA is all about making team adjust to stop what you're throwing at them and Hornacek is really good at that.

Do u realize now why Fischer sucked and was in over his head? Or do you need me to explain in further detail?

BigRedDog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Yes, Hornacek has been great. He sees things that work in games and sticks with them. Too often in previous seasons we have had something that works and go away from it. The NBA is all about making team adjust to stop what you're throwing at them and Hornacek is really good at that.

Do u realize now why Fischer sucked and was in over his head? Or do you need me to explain in further detail?

I thought Fisher was a decent coach. I am starting to like Hornacek better. But if you're trying to act like they had the same talent level on their roster, please explain to me in further detail how Jose Calderon and Langston Galloway are the same level of PG as Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings. Go ahead. I'll wait here. Talent level makes a difference. I like how this is all about how I thought Fisher was a decent coach and not how people here were trying to justify hiring Rambis as head coach. OR about the guys who pulled out the advanced stats to tell us how Calderon was better than DRose. Please, make this about how I thought Fisher was a decent coach. Please do.

Before the season started everyone kept saying that we were a top heavy team, great starters but questionable bench. Well Hornacek has used our bench very skillfully, and now it's obvious that our bench matches pretty much with any other NBA teams reserves. Jennings, Holiday, Kuz, Willy ! That makes a very solid 9 player rotation, 10 with KyleO. I am impressed

crzymdups wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Yes, Hornacek has been great. He sees things that work in games and sticks with them. Too often in previous seasons we have had something that works and go away from it. The NBA is all about making team adjust to stop what you're throwing at them and Hornacek is really good at that.

Do u realize now why Fischer sucked and was in over his head? Or do you need me to explain in further detail?

I thought Fisher was a decent coach. I am starting to like Hornacek better. But if you're trying to act like they had the same talent level on their roster, please explain to me in further detail how Jose Calderon and Langston Galloway are the same level of PG as Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings. Go ahead. I'll wait here. Talent level makes a difference. I like how this is all about how I thought Fisher was a decent coach and not how people here were trying to justify hiring Rambis as head coach. OR about the guys who pulled out the advanced stats to tell us how Calderon was better than DRose. Please, make this about how I thought Fisher was a decent coach. Please do.

We had a solid roster last season under fisher, definitely a 7 to 8th seed.

This year were closer to 4th seed

Our defense has also gotten a little better now the Rambis took over

knicks1248 wrote:Our defense has also gotten a little better now the Rambis took over

Kurt Rambideau? lol. The D seemed to have turned the corner after their big meeting. Whatever the reason, Im glad the defense is starting to wake up. Like to revisit this issue after the season when there is more info on Rambis's contribution to the team. Hard to gauge right now.

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our defense has also gotten a little better now the Rambis took over

Kurt Rambideau? lol. The D seemed to have turned the corner after their big meeting. Whatever the reason, Im glad the defense is starting to wake up. Like to revisit this issue after the season when there is more info on Rambis's contribution to the team. Hard to gauge right now.

would we have the info to gauge it then? I mean we can really only guess. However when you listen to JH does this sound like a guy frustrated by Phil's meddling? Crazy the places people take small slivers of info. All we can really judge and gauge is big picture, and that picture right now is the GM gave this coach a solid mix of talent, skill, vet and youth. The coach is doing a nice job getting it to gel, managing the personalities and getting the play on the court to continually improve. There may be setbacks.. but so far so good IMO

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our defense has also gotten a little better now the Rambis took over

Kurt Rambideau? lol. The D seemed to have turned the corner after their big meeting. Whatever the reason, Im glad the defense is starting to wake up. Like to revisit this issue after the season when there is more info on Rambis's contribution to the team. Hard to gauge right now.

would we have the info to gauge it then? I mean we can really only guess. However when you listen to JH does this sound like a guy frustrated by Phil's meddling? Crazy the places people take small slivers of info. All we can really judge and gauge is big picture, and that picture right now is the GM gave this coach a solid mix of talent, skill, vet and youth. The coach is doing a nice job getting it to gel, managing the personalities and getting the play on the court to continually improve. There may be setbacks.. but so far so good IMO

We would have an entire season of seeing what this defense can do. Its how Thibodeau got a head coaching gig. No one had to take a guess about his contribution to the Celtics championship team.

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our defense has also gotten a little better now the Rambis took over

Kurt Rambideau? lol. The D seemed to have turned the corner after their big meeting. Whatever the reason, Im glad the defense is starting to wake up. Like to revisit this issue after the season when there is more info on Rambis's contribution to the team. Hard to gauge right now.

I tried to point this out before but Rambis took over the Lakers Defense and they went on to win Titles. It may seem funny to some but He's done this before.

The Lakers' DEFENSIVE funnel vision

Rambis was given task of improving team's defense, and his ideas, predicated on forcing the ball to one side of the court, are working
November 28, 2008|Mike Bresnahan | Bresnahan is a Times staff writer.

Kurt Rambis' pizza is getting cold.

It's been sitting there, sausage, mushrooms and mozzarella, all but ignored because the Lakers' defensive coach is on a roll.

The black ballpoint pen is flying as Rambis draws up defensive schemes, scrawling out Xs and O's on the wax paper that covers a table at an Italian bistro.

He talks about steals, blocked shots and overloading one side of the court. He emphasizes the necessity to jump into passing lanes to intercept skip passes. He talks and draws, and then, finally, he eats. His work is done . . . at least on paper.

It was a given that the Lakers would score gobs of points this season, but Coach Phil Jackson wanted to put a stop to all the points being dropped on them (the team's defensive rank last season: 18th).

So Jackson gathered his coaches before training camp and told them he was appointing a defensive coach, something he hadn't done in his previous 18 years of coaching in the NBA.

"We didn't want to announce it and make a big deal about it like Boston did with their guy," Jackson said. "But Kurt is real good at this and he's willing."

Ah, yes. Boston.

The Celtics' defensive coach, Tom Thibodeau, made numerous headlines for his shut-it-down success last season, creating a template for championship-caliber teams via an unforgiving defense.

The Lakers could have used such a thing in the Finals, when the Celtics ended the Lakers' fairy tale by crushing them with Paul Pierce's slow, methodical, back-'em-down-the-lane style.

It has created a slow burn in the Lakers for, oh, about 164 days since their 131-92 humiliation in Game 6 of the Finals.

The Lakers began working on the new defense during training camp and continue to practice it almost every day. The results have been a boon.

The Lakers (12-1) are third in the league in opponents' shooting percentage (42.2%), sixth in points given up (92.7 a game), and first in point differential (14.3 a game).

The players have eaten it up, finding an appetite for steals (a league-best 10.4 a game) and blocked shots (6.2 a game, sixth-best in the league) that matches their zest for alley-oop dunks and three-on-one breaks.

"The thought process is that you want to win a championship. In order to beat a Boston, you've got to be a better defensive team than Boston," Kobe Bryant said. "If you want to hoist that trophy at the end of the year, we've got to be a great defensive team. That's the only way to get it done."

Rambis, in his seventh season as a Lakers assistant coach, had been in Jackson's ear for a while, pointing out an opportunity to take advantage of the NBA rule changes in 2001 that allowed zone defenses. Jackson ultimately relented over the summer.

"Kurt's been pestering me for a year or so about doing some things defensively that I was reluctant to do," Jackson said. "I come from the old school where you play man [defense], and you have that man and that's your primary goal."

The Lakers now use a lot of zone principles and try to keep the ball on one side of the court.

They put pressure on the ballhandler to try to force him to a particular side and then often overload the area by sending an extra defender to stand down near the post, essentially shifting the defense from man-to-man to zone.

Skip passes to the undermanned side can hurt the Lakers, but their defense has been quick to jump into passing lanes and create turnovers.

Crucial to their defensive success is extreme pressure on the ballhandler. Without that pressure, the ballhandler can see the court and find open teammates.

"We've got guys that have the capability of being a very disruptive defensive team," Rambis said. "We tried to give them goals to start training camp. They should be among the league leaders in defensive field-goal percentage, rebounds, shot blocks, steals, point differential. If you're among the league leaders in those categories, you're going to give yourself a chance to win."

The dramatic changes in personnel since last year's training camp have definitely helped.

Kwame Brown no longer patrols the middle -- er, tries to patrol the middle -- after being replaced by the younger and longer Andrew Bynum, who is gaining experience and confidence by the day.

Next to Bynum is fellow 7-footer Pau Gasol, who is fairly fluid for his size and is back to his natural position of power forward after playing center in Bynum's absence last season.

Bryant is an eight-time member of the All-Defensive team. The antagonistic, rangy forward Trevor Ariza is healthy after an injury-marred end to last season.

Word is spreading around the league.

"Their defense is much better than it was last year," New Orleans Coach Byron Scott said. "I think they learned from the Boston Celtics that you have to play defense to win championships. They really have done a heck of a job just getting after people, closing the lanes down and forcing people to shoot jump shots. When you get by them, you've got two 7-footers back there contesting shots."

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/28/...

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I like Willy for KP as the first substitution. Willy plays big and KP gets to run with the second unit. I agree about his rotations. He isn't locked into guys. I was hoping for the Jennings/Rose backcourt in the fourth but it didn't make sense with Charlotte's size.

Exactly, he didn't put noah in because he's a starter with a big contract. Its just seems like he's much more in control of what he wants to do, and has shown the ability to adjust on the fly, or in the 2nd half.

He is the anti Woodson, he can think and make decisions of his own.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our defense has also gotten a little better now the Rambis took over

Kurt Rambideau? lol. The D seemed to have turned the corner after their big meeting. Whatever the reason, Im glad the defense is starting to wake up. Like to revisit this issue after the season when there is more info on Rambis's contribution to the team. Hard to gauge right now.

would we have the info to gauge it then? I mean we can really only guess. However when you listen to JH does this sound like a guy frustrated by Phil's meddling? Crazy the places people take small slivers of info. All we can really judge and gauge is big picture, and that picture right now is the GM gave this coach a solid mix of talent, skill, vet and youth. The coach is doing a nice job getting it to gel, managing the personalities and getting the play on the court to continually improve. There may be setbacks.. but so far so good IMO

We would have an entire season of seeing what this defense can do. Its how Thibodeau got a head coaching gig. No one had to take a guess about his contribution to the Celtics championship team.

Well there is some context. Thibs has been in a position to succeed. He ran a defense and had KG to anchor it. He also had one of the premier head coaches to work under. In Chi he had a prime Noah, and MVP Rose and some other very good pieces. Minn is 5-10. There is no magic wand. You gotta have the players and the support.

i don't know about you guys but after watching kuz on defense Kuz really gave batum problems. Kuz locked him down with his long wingspan. Add the fact KUZ can spread the floor on offense and be a real mismatch he only had two points but kept the defense honest... Kuz the closer always a positive impact that can't be ignored when on the floor.

I feel the same way about willy. Im not giving up on Noah because he is like a coach and he grabs boards big time. Noah is great at energizing the starting unit. But with that said you would have to think though with the emergence of willy becoming the better fit that when Noah is eligible to be traded it would be foolish of us not to see his worth. I'd call the T wolves,Portland,teams in need of a vocal leader. If the return is minimal just keep him, Noah isn't really hurting the team being a guide for willy and O'quinn.

I will say charlotte really forced hornys hand early to pull Noah, His lack of offensive ability really allows teams to double team at will to stop the scorers. They just leave him wide open all the time. Noah should set high post screens and just role to under the basket if teams leave him to double Melo,KP,Rose he's open for the dunk.

All of what I said would not be if willy was struggling. He's really out preforming Noah, beating Noah out for major minutes.

Going back to Kuz he too has out preformed LT and I would also look to move LT.

One of the best off-season moves was hiring Hornacek. I hope he stays here for a long time.

The rotations are better now, they were god awful for the first 10 games hut i hiv3 hornacek a pass because obviously he was experimenting. I think hes got it right now.