Knicks · Melo vs. Bernard at the same age (page 1)
========Games played==========Rebound avg.=============Wins per season=============+++++++++Pt average
Melo----------215====================7.0===================42, 36, 53 Total:131================26.25
King----------208====================5.2===================48, 48, 24 Total:120================26.5
Signature Knick Moments....
King:
"He almost single-handely led the Knicks to their first-round series win over the Detroit Pistons in 1984 as he posted over 40 points in four games and 36 in the other. King averaged 34.8 ppg in the '84 playoffs as New York reached the Eastern Conference semifinals, where it lost to Boston in seven games.
In 1984-85, King was the main attraction in the Big Apple and beyond. He led the NBA in scoring (32.9 ppg) and provided a memorable heat wave in the middle of winter.
Melo: Led league in scoring! Won a playoff series.
Why do this? I long thought about Kings bloated cred with knick fans which was a wonderful brief run and we tend to think that torrid streak was for his whole knick career. Don't get me wrong, I loved it but we tend to romance it. Melo we tend to do the opposite. Melo has not provided many "Knick" moments largely because we have not played many important games. Much of bernard's were individual efforts. He carried the team on his back and beat detroit nearly single handed! Melo, came to a depleted squad that under achieved. King's first season was a wonderful suprise, while the last a 24 win season.
Im not saying we should love on Melo. King came to us undervaled while we payed dearly for Melo. Melo in my view has held up his end of the deal and does what he always did, score points. King had a very inconsistent career with alcohol problems and some small altercations with the law. He was really "coming home" and really stepped up. Thats why we loved him. Melo star was always up for debate, his numbers solid and really had no substance or legal problems.
Very different paths to the knicks, but similar results over all. Expectations played a big part of the legacies.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Nalod wrote:Melo came via trade to play last 26 games. King 3 full seasons, then blew out the knee 6 games in. Both were Knicks at same age.
========Games played==========Rebound avg.=============Wins per season=============+++++++++Pt averageMelo----------215====================7.0===================42, 36, 53 Total:131================26.25
King----------208====================5.2===================48, 48, 24 Total:120================26.5
Signature Knick Moments....King:
"He almost single-handely led the Knicks to their first-round series win over the Detroit Pistons in 1984 as he posted over 40 points in four games and 36 in the other. King averaged 34.8 ppg in the '84 playoffs as New York reached the Eastern Conference semifinals, where it lost to Boston in seven games.
In 1984-85, King was the main attraction in the Big Apple and beyond. He led the NBA in scoring (32.9 ppg) and provided a memorable heat wave in the middle of winter.Melo: Led league in scoring! Won a playoff series.
Why do this? I long thought about Kings bloated cred with knick fans which was a wonderful brief run and we tend to think that torrid streak was for his whole knick career. Don't get me wrong, I loved it but we tend to romance it. Melo we tend to do the opposite. Melo has not provided many "Knick" moments largely because we have not played many important games. Much of bernard's were individual efforts. He carried the team on his back and beat detroit nearly single handed! Melo, came to a depleted squad that under achieved. King's first season was a wonderful suprise, while the last a 24 win season.Im not saying we should love on Melo. King came to us undervaled while we payed dearly for Melo. Melo in my view has held up his end of the deal and does what he always did, score points. King had a very inconsistent career with alcohol problems and some small altercations with the law. He was really "coming home" and really stepped up. Thats why we loved him. Melo star was always up for debate, his numbers solid and really had no substance or legal problems.
Very different paths to the knicks, but similar results over all. Expectations played a big part of the legacies.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
I never saw Kind life. It is ancient history to me.
On paper they are very similar players.
I like Melo as a person, as a businessman, as public figure, and celebrity.
I do not like his style of play. It is boring to me and helpless.
But it is very entertaining for other fans. May be majority of them.
Melo makes money for himself, the owner, the organization.
So he is not out of place in NBA business.
But this means nothing to me personally.
Nalod wrote:Melo came via trade to play last 26 games. King 3 full seasons, then blew out the knee 6 games in. Both were Knicks at same age.
========Games played==========Rebound avg.=============Wins per season=============+++++++++Pt averageMelo----------215====================7.0===================42, 36, 53 Total:131================26.25
King----------208====================5.2===================48, 48, 24 Total:120================26.5
Signature Knick Moments....King:
"He almost single-handely led the Knicks to their first-round series win over the Detroit Pistons in 1984 as he posted over 40 points in four games and 36 in the other. King averaged 34.8 ppg in the '84 playoffs as New York reached the Eastern Conference semifinals, where it lost to Boston in seven games.
In 1984-85, King was the main attraction in the Big Apple and beyond. He led the NBA in scoring (32.9 ppg) and provided a memorable heat wave in the middle of winter.Melo: Led league in scoring! Won a playoff series.
Why do this? I long thought about Kings bloated cred with knick fans which was a wonderful brief run and we tend to think that torrid streak was for his whole knick career. Don't get me wrong, I loved it but we tend to romance it. Melo we tend to do the opposite. Melo has not provided many "Knick" moments largely because we have not played many important games. Much of bernard's were individual efforts. He carried the team on his back and beat detroit nearly single handed! Melo, came to a depleted squad that under achieved. King's first season was a wonderful suprise, while the last a 24 win season.Im not saying we should love on Melo. King came to us undervaled while we payed dearly for Melo. Melo in my view has held up his end of the deal and does what he always did, score points. King had a very inconsistent career with alcohol problems and some small altercations with the law. He was really "coming home" and really stepped up. Thats why we loved him. Melo star was always up for debate, his numbers solid and really had no substance or legal problems.
Very different paths to the knicks, but similar results over all. Expectations played a big part of the legacies.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...
Great stuff nalod, this is brilliant comparative analysis and a hard factual truth that many here are either unable or unwilling to accept.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nba...
So they are very close.
And 59 is a very a good mark.
This list is obviously highlights individual skills.
Melo choose to cash his skills into money and fame not in winning on NBA level.
It is hard to get both.
With Melo, after the league medical staff finalize the Melo trade to NY, MSG double the price of seat tickets before Melo put on his first Knicks Jersey LMAO
Kemet wrote:Ha Ha .. u can not measure Melo to a Super Star Bernard King .. After Kings first season performance as a Knicks the wins gave MSG the power to double the price on seat tickets. Bernard King made us a playoff team.
With Melo, after the league medical staff finalize the Melo trade to NY, MSG double the price of seat tickets before Melo put on his first Knicks Jersey LMAO
Melo has had a better career than king.
Kemet wrote:Ha Ha .. u can not measure Melo to a Super Star Bernard King .. After Kings first season performance as a Knicks the wins gave MSG the power to double the price on seat tickets. Bernard King made us a playoff team.
With Melo, after the league medical staff finalize the Melo trade to NY, MSG double the price of seat tickets before Melo put on his first Knicks Jersey LMAO
Melo took the Knicks to the playoffs his first three years here.
ActionJackson wrote:Nalod wrote:Melo came via trade to play last 26 games. King 3 full seasons, then blew out the knee 6 games in. Both were Knicks at same age.
========Games played==========Rebound avg.=============Wins per season=============+++++++++Pt averageMelo----------215====================7.0===================42, 36, 53 Total:131================26.25
King----------208====================5.2===================48, 48, 24 Total:120================26.5
Signature Knick Moments....King:
"He almost single-handely led the Knicks to their first-round series win over the Detroit Pistons in 1984 as he posted over 40 points in four games and 36 in the other. King averaged 34.8 ppg in the '84 playoffs as New York reached the Eastern Conference semifinals, where it lost to Boston in seven games.
In 1984-85, King was the main attraction in the Big Apple and beyond. He led the NBA in scoring (32.9 ppg) and provided a memorable heat wave in the middle of winter.Melo: Led league in scoring! Won a playoff series.
Why do this? I long thought about Kings bloated cred with knick fans which was a wonderful brief run and we tend to think that torrid streak was for his whole knick career. Don't get me wrong, I loved it but we tend to romance it. Melo we tend to do the opposite. Melo has not provided many "Knick" moments largely because we have not played many important games. Much of bernard's were individual efforts. He carried the team on his back and beat detroit nearly single handed! Melo, came to a depleted squad that under achieved. King's first season was a wonderful suprise, while the last a 24 win season.Im not saying we should love on Melo. King came to us undervaled while we payed dearly for Melo. Melo in my view has held up his end of the deal and does what he always did, score points. King had a very inconsistent career with alcohol problems and some small altercations with the law. He was really "coming home" and really stepped up. Thats why we loved him. Melo star was always up for debate, his numbers solid and really had no substance or legal problems.
Very different paths to the knicks, but similar results over all. Expectations played a big part of the legacies.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/team...Great stuff nalod, this is brilliant comparative analysis and a hard factual truth that many here are either unable or unwilling to accept.
+1 this is a great post, Nalod.
Vmart wrote:Did you guys ever wonder what King was playing with. Honestly everyone except for King were back ups. Cartwright was his best teammate. Who was later a role player for the Bulls.
Melo's first season here, the second best guy on their playoffs roster was Jared Jeffries. Toney Douglas and Billy Walker got major minutes.
crzymdups wrote:Vmart wrote:Did you guys ever wonder what King was playing with. Honestly everyone except for King were back ups. Cartwright was his best teammate. Who was later a role player for the Bulls.Melo's first season here, the second best guy on their playoffs roster was Jared Jeffries. Toney Douglas and Billy Walker got major minutes.
The times he had any talent whatsoever we made the playoffs and Amare was hurt against Indy & punched a fire extinguisher against Miami sooooo
crzymdups wrote:Kemet wrote:Ha Ha .. u can not measure Melo to a Super Star Bernard King .. After Kings first season performance as a Knicks the wins gave MSG the power to double the price on seat tickets. Bernard King made us a playoff team.
With Melo, after the league medical staff finalize the Melo trade to NY, MSG double the price of seat tickets before Melo put on his first Knicks Jersey LMAOMelo took the Knicks to the playoffs his first three years here.
That's a bit of spinning. His first year here the team had a slightly better record before he joined the team. I wouldn't go along with the idea that one guy takes the team to the playoffs anyway even if the guy has a really high PPG average. In the good years (especially the 54 win year) we've had many important players.
Vmart wrote:Did you guys ever wonder what King was playing with. Honestly everyone except for King were back ups. Cartwright was his best teammate. Who was later a role player for the Bulls.
Wow, you really should use the smilies when being sarcastic. Or self-deprecating.
Weren't you one of the tkf/d7kth groupies shooting this whole argument down for Melo here?
How about playing with Chris Smith? Landry "Parabola" Fields? Broken Camby Dammit! Fishlips! Toney Dougless?
Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Kemet wrote:Ha Ha .. u can not measure Melo to a Super Star Bernard King .. After Kings first season performance as a Knicks the wins gave MSG the power to double the price on seat tickets. Bernard King made us a playoff team.
With Melo, after the league medical staff finalize the Melo trade to NY, MSG double the price of seat tickets before Melo put on his first Knicks Jersey LMAOMelo took the Knicks to the playoffs his first three years here.
That's a bit of spinning. His first year here the team had a slightly better record before he joined the team. I wouldn't go along with the idea that one guy takes the team to the playoffs anyway even if the guy has a really high PPG average. In the good years (especially the 54 win year) we've had many important players.
Oh yes, JKidd's retirement party, half of Rashweed (although I grant you, Melo does owe him for the three to the head thing), KrazyEyes and the remember the one game from Utah! 2 WHOLE WEEKS OF LINSANITY! And where did all those important players go in the playoffs?
Really, really nice try.
NYKBocker wrote:The price for getting Melo was the reason he is viewed this way. If he just waited for the off season to join us as a FA and had Gallo, The Mayor and Mozzy with him...he would have been revered as a Knick.
Gallo - tell me all about his HOF career so far.
The Mayor - last seen in China, I believe.
Moz - famous for the gifts LeQ sends back to him for getting him a ring. I remember Nazr Mohammed was on the Knicks too at one time; he's got a ring...
You forgot Ray Felton!
that leaves some draft picks and some spare jimmieD change. Really, really high price. Yes hot dayum indeedy, I really wish we had all the chips and success Denver got with all that stuff we gave away...
jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Kemet wrote:Ha Ha .. u can not measure Melo to a Super Star Bernard King .. After Kings first season performance as a Knicks the wins gave MSG the power to double the price on seat tickets. Bernard King made us a playoff team.
With Melo, after the league medical staff finalize the Melo trade to NY, MSG double the price of seat tickets before Melo put on his first Knicks Jersey LMAOMelo took the Knicks to the playoffs his first three years here.
That's a bit of spinning. His first year here the team had a slightly better record before he joined the team. I wouldn't go along with the idea that one guy takes the team to the playoffs anyway even if the guy has a really high PPG average. In the good years (especially the 54 win year) we've had many important players.Oh yes, JKidd's retirement party, half of Rashweed (although I grant you, Melo does owe him for the three to the head thing), KrazyEyes and the remember the one game from Utah! 2 WHOLE WEEKS OF LINSANITY! And where did all those important players go in the playoffs?
Really, really nice try.
Huh? Do you think that refutes what I said? My point was that you can't honestly say Melo carried the team to the playoffs when the team was worse with him. Hating Lin, Kidd, or anyone else on the team doesn't change that.
jrodmc wrote:NYKBocker wrote:The price for getting Melo was the reason he is viewed this way. If he just waited for the off season to join us as a FA and had Gallo, The Mayor and Mozzy with him...he would have been revered as a Knick.Gallo - tell me all about his HOF career so far.
The Mayor - last seen in China, I believe.
Moz - famous for the gifts LeQ sends back to him for getting him a ring. I remember Nazr Mohammed was on the Knicks too at one time; he's got a ring...You forgot Ray Felton!
that leaves some draft picks and some spare jimmieD change. Really, really high price. Yes hot dayum indeedy, I really wish we had all the chips and success Denver got with all that stuff we gave away...
There are some trades where both teams come out as winners. This looks like one where both came out as losers.
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:NYKBocker wrote:The price for getting Melo was the reason he is viewed this way. If he just waited for the off season to join us as a FA and had Gallo, The Mayor and Mozzy with him...he would have been revered as a Knick.Gallo - tell me all about his HOF career so far.
The Mayor - last seen in China, I believe.
Moz - famous for the gifts LeQ sends back to him for getting him a ring. I remember Nazr Mohammed was on the Knicks too at one time; he's got a ring...You forgot Ray Felton!
that leaves some draft picks and some spare jimmieD change. Really, really high price. Yes hot dayum indeedy, I really wish we had all the chips and success Denver got with all that stuff we gave away...
There are some trades where both teams come out as winners. This looks like one where both came out as losers.
People remember their first impression more than the actual outcome. Knick fans were in love with that group and was romantacizing how Melo could be the final piece for a championship contender if he just waited for free agency and signed for a lower price but still a lot of money. Instead, he forced himself here and left the cubbard bare.
Me personally, I hated the deal, but right now I love Melo. I want him to stay and win one with KP. He grew on me.