Knicks · Kriss Dunn--what a disaster area. (page 1)

Boy Minnesota has to be disappointment. YOu expect more out of a guy who is 6-4 220 at PG. He could atleast be a major defensive disruptor and hes not.

I would put him in the D league and let him play 40 minutes a night with freedom and get his juices going.

Minnesota has a lot of major talent physical talent but that talent is rough around the edges. You cant have this type of reaction from pick#4 in the draft. I think they were happy and confidant on that pick but hes just been brutal. Its a train wreck situation. I doubt Tom T will be patient there.

I'd gladly swoop in, he's clearly got potential he's just got to find some footing I guess.

Ridiculously too early - he looked good in summer league, he has potential. Hardly any of the rookies are looking good at this point

Tom Thibodeau is probably giving him a taste of what is like to be a professional. It takes time. Too early to write off any rookie. There's been plenty of great pgs that played poorly their rookie years or had several years starting out as a back up before taking the lead. Kid has time

Dude are you serious? How many games has he played? Did you see him in summer league? Hes going to be a really good player i would love to have him. He is a rookie! Extremely common for rookies to take a while to figure it out pkus he has thibs on his ass barking at him

I agree it is way harder for Rookie PGs to get it together. Often they get caught up trying to make the perfect play or the right play and it leads to them thinking too much and not making any plays. Give him time. It's obvious that whole T'Wolves team has a learning curve under Thibs. Dunn has the most to learn.

typical knee-jerk reaction thread from briggs.

They need to trade some guys for vets. This is a bad strupture

Assume their right and these guys all turn out to be studs they'll all be coming off rookie contracts and want max money back to back just as they start getting good

Need more diversity of experience and depth

why the hell would you send him to the d-league? the team sucks, their record sucks, they are going to get a top draft pick and he's been able to start a few games...

15 mpg @ NBA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40 mpg @ NBDL

as for the "buy him low" argument, that isn't going to happen - that's a pipe dream. You would have a much better chance at getting Tyus Jones because he plays the same position as (a couple of) lotto pick(s). That's what happened in Sacramento with Isaiah Thomas even though he was clearly the best PG on the roster

Chandler wrote:They need to trade some guys for vets. This is a bad strupture

Assume their right and these guys all turn out to be studs they'll all be coming off rookie contracts and want max money back to back just as they start getting good

Need more diversity of experience and depth

Exact same thing I said in the game thread last night..The average age on the team is 23 yrs old, they don't have a single real vet unless your counting Rubio.

Half of this team will walk once they become FA, especially if they continue to lose.

I would trade Dunn, Rubio, and wiggins for john wall and a morris..

It's way too early to make assumptions on him, he is probably going to be good. He is an old rookie though, so i would have expected a little more from him though at this point. But obviously it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Agree that it's WAY too early. They have a chance for all those guys to grow together and into their roles. A lot like what we're seeing with Kuz. I think they'll be fine in regards to their talent meshing...the financial end is a different story, but no way I'd throw away any of their young talent for a retread. Now if they move a few young parts for a young vet, that's a different story.

Knixkik wrote:It's way too early to make assumptions on him, he is probably going to be good. He is an old rookie though, so i would have expected a little more from him though at this point. But obviously it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The length he will have to go to get to the other side is a far one. I like NBA history. MOST NBA players at 22 who are good are GOOD in the NBA. Hes an older rookie. The odds are against him and they must know it now.

Why do people see the D league as punishment? It allows said player to play a free flow game--void of worrying about negatives in hopes that game play can carry over to the nBA.

he has struggled just like your boy frank the tank did. its still early, hell get the hang of it. but i agree, theres limited upside at 22.

i actually feel that 4 yrs of ncaa basketball stunts the development of these rookies because the ncaa and nba game are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:It's way too early to make assumptions on him, he is probably going to be good. He is an old rookie though, so i would have expected a little more from him though at this point. But obviously it doesn't necessarily mean anything.

The length he will have to go to get to the other side is a far one. I like NBA history. MOST NBA players at 22 who are good are GOOD in the NBA. Hes an older rookie. The odds are against him and they must know it now.

Why do people see the D league as punishment? It allows said player to play a free flow game--void of worrying about negatives in hopes that game play can carry over to the nBA.

It's not punishment. The point is he's already proven he can exploit inferior talent. He needs to learn how to play w and against nba caliber. Whether in practice or on the bench

callmened wrote:he has struggled just like your boy frank the tank did. its still early, hell get the hang of it. but i agree, theres limited upside at 22.

i actually feel that 4 yrs of ncaa basketball stunts the development of these rookies because the ncaa and nba game are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different

Frank has played ok but I really am disappointed at his 3 point accuracy. I thought he be a 45% shooter a good passer use his size better. Hes got to work on explosion techniques in the offseason and to refocus his 3 point shot. For him to be really good--that 3 pt shot is pivotal. But hes far passed Dunn

I had Jamal Murray as number #1 overall pick--I think he went 7.

If Knicks got into draft I had Brogdon Jones and Forbes in that order for 2nd rounders. Brogdon is coming into his own and Jones+ Forbes made NBA rosters. Not terrible in a bad draft.

callmened wrote:he has struggled just like your boy frank the tank did. its still early, hell get the hang of it. but i agree, theres limited upside at 22.

i actually feel that 4 yrs of ncaa basketball stunts the development of these rookies because the ncaa and nba game are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different

I think it depends on the player. For some, thats true. For others, it affects their confidence and sets them back.

BRIGGS wrote:I had Jamal Murray as number #1 overall pick--I think he went 7.

If Knicks got into draft I had Brogdon Jones and Forbes in that order for 2nd rounders. Brogdon is coming into his own and Jones+ Forbes made NBA rosters. Not terrible in a bad draft.

You also had Dunn at 6! Buddy Hield at 3, Wade Baldwin at 8, etc etc- you can't just cherry pick your predictions :

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

BRIGGS predictions in full:

6/13/2016 3:51 PM LAST EDITED: 6/22/2016 9:54 AM
Ill go like this top 30
#1 Jamal Murray--the alpha dog shot maker. Less athletic Kobe Bryant--his game is made for the NBA. Advanced skills in every dept. Can shoot out to 30 feet with high consistency but also has slash and drive skills. Can play lead guard--ultimate combo guard. Good not great athletic ability. Can finish at or above rim. Good size and length. To me hes a no brainer #1 there is no question to me that hes going to be a good-great NBA player and will be an immediate impact player.
#2 Branden Ingram--very long athletic player with KD like skills--dribble drive shoot. Versatile on both ends. Gets to the rim with the dribble and spin moves with ease using his length. Nice shot out to three. I question his intensity a bit.
#3 Buddy Hield--Shocking transformation from junior to senior year. Added muscle speed and has excellent body control. He has Steph Curry like 3 point ability--high volume high consistency 3 point game. Under rated slash agility and athleticism. Explosive potential in any game. Needs to work the middle game. Should be an immediate NBA impact spacer
#4 Ben Simmons Unique PF with PG skills. Position intensity and shooting an issue? Athletic skilled and big
#5 Marquesse Criss---Amare Stoudemire type PF with upper tier NBA athletic with some range out to 3.Has better defensive potential than Amare. Has a possibility of being the best player in the draft.
#6 Kriss Dunn--If he had a higher basketball IQ and a more consistent J hed easily go #1. Explosive long powerful PG with high level athletic ability Somewhere in the John Wall mold
#7 Wade Baldwin PG who resembles Russell Westbrook long arms great finisher good 3 point shootre lacks PG intangibles

#8 Denzel Valentine--I knew hed drop in the pro workouts. Its pretty simple--if a team can utilize his skills as a PG--you're going to get a really nice 8 pick. If they dont or hes a bad fit--he could end up as a really decent role player. Lacks explosion but has deceptive speed with the ball innate passer ball mover great shot maker(can he do it in the pros?) lengthy rebounder. This guy passes the ball like Larry Bird--see's the court like few do. Intangibles leadership
#9 Malik Beasley--combination of great 2 guard skill with elite athletic ability. Great shooter as a freshmen paired with tier 1 athletic ability. Can handle the ball and make some plays with the dribble. Very decent defender with more potential here. Maybe a tad skinny--needs body to mature work on ballhandling--decision making Has big time potential
#10 Dejounte Murray--this is going off course for me because hes not a plus outside shooter yet. I like the Shaun Living ston comparison here. Long athletic PG with explosive scoring ability. Hes a jumpshot and 15 hard pounds away from being a decent force. Extreme length handle and body control allows him to slither to hoop and finish at or above rim. Excellent rebounder for his size. Is going to need to utilize playmaking skills more in the pros. Hes a project year 1

#11 Jaylen Brown F--Boom/bust potential. He looks great he looks lost. Has some similar characteristics to Stanley Johnson--big F with really great athletic ability and some dribble drive game. Hes going to have to develop his skills--if he doesnt hell be a good role player. If he can improve the handle and shot---much higher potenial
#12 Damian Jones--Derrick Favors Andre Drummond like mold. 6- 11.5 245 with 37 inch vertical. Will develop into a reasonable force in a 4-1 set. Shows a lot of potential in pick and roll. he can shoot it post and a decent offensive rebounder. Springs Very decent defender with NBA rim protection ability. Needs to rebound better work on post footwork intensity court awareness

#13 Jakob Poetl- good fundamental C Good post player with high efficiency offense. Very decent passer. Good length but somewhat weak base. Disappears at times. Lacks explosion

#14 Malcolm Brogdon 6-5 225 G Going off the sentiment reader again Consistent hard working two way player who has a 40-90% 3 + 2 FT potential. Has some dribble drive game with incredible strength and long arms. Good passer ACC defensive and player player of the year. Adequate rebounder but could improve there. Lacks an NBA first step slow to the hoop
#15 Thon Maker--KP like potential at 7-1 220 with range to 30 feet extreme length and athletic ability. Ball handling skills defensive ability. Raw

#16 A J Hammons-- Hes got a lot of Andrew Bynum in him. True center power at 7-0 +270 with long arms. I expect immediate impact in summer league and play off the bench year 1 pros . Best rim protector in draft class. Excellent post moves for the NBA today. Really nice range out to the 3 ball land. Excellent rebounder on both ends his hands always seem to meet the ball. Has all the skills. His body has improved but still needs refinement. His whole gig will be intensity and motor. If he plays hard hes going to be good if he doesnt hell be a back up or even a bust.
#17 Diamond Stone--6-11 260 Mobile for such a big guy good motor with good two way skills. Hes an NBA player for sure moves well for such a big guy and can hit his FT's Has some Zach Randolph in him
#18 Dragen Bender--I personally do not think hes a better PF prospect than Maker. I dont think he shoots it that well--he proved little against the top tier guys--I think hes much more Euro than KP. Hes a good ball handler hes lengthy skilled but there are red flags. Raw no way will he produce anything like a first year KP.
19 Anthony Barber- Jeff Teague/Tony Parker like potential. Ultra quick PG with size with great mid range and driving skills. Plays a tad below the rim which hurts him a bit. Is incredible in space with speed ballhandling and body control. Will need to hit the three a bit more effectively and use his playmaking skills a tad more. Lacks high baksetball IQ but his physical speed hides it. Needs improvement on D--needs to work hard using his speed to stay in front of his man.
#20 Dayotona Davis Horace Grant like PF with great physical characteristics needs developmental time
#21 Damatas Sabonis 6-10 F Will be solid and play right away off the bench. Tier 1 rebounder great hands plays hard. Good post moves agile for his size. Lacks explosion and lateral quickness.
#22 Demetrius Jackson--has some Tim Hardaway in his game. Short compact yet explosive can finish above the rim easily. His shooting dipped this year as he became the man--but his game is made for the NBA. Needs to increase his playmaking ability in the pros. Very decent defender

#23 Kay Felder PG 5-9 185 Best pure PG in draft but lacks size. Incredible athlete in combination with great basketball skills. Warrior mentality great speed with the ball. Could and will need to improve and soften that three point shot great FT shooter bounces off players with power. If he was 6-2 hed go pick #1.

#24 Brice Johnson--Id have him in the lottery IF he didnt weigh 210 with 0 3 point ability. Springy player with great length touch great rebounder excellent athletic ability above the rim player.
#25 Ben Bentil---Paul Millsap like mobile F with range out to 3 advanced offensive skills with good defensive intensity. Good post player(can he do the same in the pros?) A little light in the rebounding dept lacks explosion.
#26 Skal Labrieesse 6-11 220 Lengthy skilled F with rim protecting ability Has some Channing Frye in his game. Low production in college. Can shoot with range. A little frail.
.
#27 Patric McCaw--Has some Paul George to him--could be a heck uva steal down the line. Great length at 6-7 good rebounder solid shooter good passer with elite level defensive capabilities--one of the best defenders in the draft. Needs strength badly. This is a great pick here.
#28 Derrick Jones--under rated player whoi needs developmental time. A top 3 athlete in the draft has the potential to move to 6-7 big time potential with good development
#29 Henry Ellenson 6-11 245 Nice combination of size and skill can play 4-5

#30 Deandre Bembry G 6-6 210 Multi skilled F with high basketball IQ good body who does it all has some Scottie Pippen in him--lacks a good outside shot

Nothing wrong with being wrong (I'm wrong more often than you are when it comes to scouting, but you ain't nostradamus

The good news with him is that his assist and turnover numbers look solid for a rookie. It's too early to tell I'd his shot is broken or if he just hasn't found his rhythm. He's a guy whose used to having the ball in his hands and that's not going to be the case in the foreseeable future. At least on this team. People were saying De' Angelo Russel is a bust at this point last season too. It's too early to tell.