Knicks · Oquinn earned another start (page 1)
Bonn1997 wrote:O'Quinn is the best value Phil has ever gotten IMO from an FA signing in terms of both cost and production. Yeah, he should definitely get more minutes. It amazes me they won't give him more than 14 MPG.
I think his minutes are climbing. Would like to see him up to 24 mpg. He should be a legit 8 pts, 8 rebs, 3 asts guy with solid defense. It really comes down to effort level with him and whatever approach he has now is working. This seems very sustainable. He is a legit starting PF/C in the league if he maintains his effort level. And i love his fit with KP and Melo. He is a willing passer and does the dirty work. He can also keep the defense honest.
I don't like that JH is playing KP, Willy, Noah, and KOQ at center every game, and worse, giving them super sporadic minutes.. How is a person suppose to get comfortable in his role, when it changes game to game.
I understood it when Noah was out, now it seems like he's grasping for straws hoping one of them will play well.
The game plan against love was sooo bad from the very first possession when Love hit a wide open 3, and kp and noah were in the paint.
The entire game plan was brutally bad IMO, when you have a 40% 3 point shooting team (top 5 in the league) come in and shoot 55% (unheard of)and no adjustments made, you have to question the preparation
knicks1248 wrote:It's ridiculous to start noah for 6 minutes the bench until the half, let him play another 6 minuts then bench him for the game..I don't like that JH is playing KP, Willy, Noah, and KOQ at center every game, and worse, giving them super sporadic minutes.. How is a person suppose to get comfortable in his role, when it changes game to game.
I understood it when Noah was out, now it seems like he's grasping for straws hoping one of them will play well.The game plan against love was sooo bad from the very first possession when Love hit a wide open 3, and kp and noah were in the paint.
The entire game plan was brutally bad IMO, when you have a 40% 3 point shooting team (top 5 in the league) come in and shoot 55% (unheard of)and no adjustments made, you have to question the preparation
This was the worst job Hornacek did this season. Brought in Thomas first over KOQ, who is coming along, but not ready to be the first man off the bench yet IMO. He kept all the rooks on the bench, it was a big change from the lineups that he had been putting out there, that had worked, and it bit the team in the ass.
One of the reasons Fisher failed was that he couldn't settle on a rotation, he kept throwing things at the wall, his reasoning to better prepare them. All it did was leave players confused about their roles. Dont want to see a return to that for whatever the reason.
Dont care what Jeff's reasoning was, he should have stayed with the rotation he had instead of relying entirely on the vets until the game was out of reach.
Finestrg wrote:He's been possibly the most pleasant surprise this season. After last year, I don't think anybody expected much from him but he's been DAMN GOOD thus far. I ripped into him a little before the season started, saying we should trade him and whatnot, was an overrated passer, etc. but I'm happy to say I was wrong on him. He's been a rock for us, esp. of late (the last few weeks). I'm glad he's still here. I think he even has more potential offensively too -- if he were afforded a little more freedom, I think this guy could knock down 3s very comfortably. I guess you probably wouldn't want to see that regularly as it would take away opportunities from our other primary scorers but the potential's certainly there. Very happy with his work inside (showing much more toughness this season, great on putbacks, has that knack for finishing strong with two hands using his body well to shield off defenders, real good passer, good jump-shooter... I'd have no problem with him starting--it probably would be for the best.
Yeah i wanted to like him badly last year, he showed some flashes, but didn't bring it every night. But this year, with KP, Noah being signed, Willy looking good, and the idea of playing more small ball with Melo, Lance, or Kuz at the 4, i really thought O'Quinn was the odd man out and didn't see a place for him. But he has completely overcome that situation and has been so good he not only belongs in the rotation but really deserves to start. Given he is still young, he has some pretty good potential to continue to improve and become a pretty incredible role player. He has no real hole or weakness in his game, it all comes down to just wanting to compete each game and not taking any nights off for him to be effective in this role.
Knixkik wrote:Finestrg wrote:He's been possibly the most pleasant surprise this season. After last year, I don't think anybody expected much from him but he's been DAMN GOOD thus far. I ripped into him a little before the season started, saying we should trade him and whatnot, was an overrated passer, etc. but I'm happy to say I was wrong on him. He's been a rock for us, esp. of late (the last few weeks). I'm glad he's still here. I think he even has more potential offensively too -- if he were afforded a little more freedom, I think this guy could knock down 3s very comfortably. I guess you probably wouldn't want to see that regularly as it would take away opportunities from our other primary scorers but the potential's certainly there. Very happy with his work inside (showing much more toughness this season, great on putbacks, has that knack for finishing strong with two hands using his body well to shield off defenders, real good passer, good jump-shooter... I'd have no problem with him starting--it probably would be for the best.Yeah i wanted to like him badly last year, he showed some flashes, but didn't bring it every night. But this year, with KP, Noah being signed, Willy looking good, and the idea of playing more small ball with Melo, Lance, or Kuz at the 4, i really thought O'Quinn was the odd man out and didn't see a place for him. But he has completely overcome that situation and has been so good he not only belongs in the rotation but really deserves to start. Given he is still young, he has some pretty good potential to continue to improve and become a pretty incredible role player. He has no real hole or weakness in his game, it all comes down to just wanting to compete each game and not taking any nights off for him to be effective in this role.
No doubt. I don't know why I thought of these two as they're all different players (maybe because they're all big men role players) but for argument's sake, compare him to Antonio and Dale Davis for a sec. How do you think he stacks up with those two? Maybe not quite as good as Antonio in his prime but more skilled than Dale? Is that fair? He's like our very own Davis brother.
Finestrg wrote:Knixkik wrote:Finestrg wrote:He's been possibly the most pleasant surprise this season. After last year, I don't think anybody expected much from him but he's been DAMN GOOD thus far. I ripped into him a little before the season started, saying we should trade him and whatnot, was an overrated passer, etc. but I'm happy to say I was wrong on him. He's been a rock for us, esp. of late (the last few weeks). I'm glad he's still here. I think he even has more potential offensively too -- if he were afforded a little more freedom, I think this guy could knock down 3s very comfortably. I guess you probably wouldn't want to see that regularly as it would take away opportunities from our other primary scorers but the potential's certainly there. Very happy with his work inside (showing much more toughness this season, great on putbacks, has that knack for finishing strong with two hands using his body well to shield off defenders, real good passer, good jump-shooter... I'd have no problem with him starting--it probably would be for the best.Yeah i wanted to like him badly last year, he showed some flashes, but didn't bring it every night. But this year, with KP, Noah being signed, Willy looking good, and the idea of playing more small ball with Melo, Lance, or Kuz at the 4, i really thought O'Quinn was the odd man out and didn't see a place for him. But he has completely overcome that situation and has been so good he not only belongs in the rotation but really deserves to start. Given he is still young, he has some pretty good potential to continue to improve and become a pretty incredible role player. He has no real hole or weakness in his game, it all comes down to just wanting to compete each game and not taking any nights off for him to be effective in this role.
No doubt. I don't know why I thought of these two as they're all different players (maybe because they're all big men role players) but for argument's sake, compare him to Antonio and Dale Davis for a sec. How do you think he stacks up with those two? Maybe not quite as good as Antonio in his prime but more skilled than Dale? Is that fair? He's like our very own Davis brother.
Dale could be reasonable, but when we signed him, i was really hoping he would bring that Kurt Thomas-type game here. It obviously didn't happen last season, but it looks more like it this season. O'Quinn, like Thomas, has the quality mid-range jumper and physicality and effort level to be an absolute elite role player. Thomas also was sort of a late bloomer, as his best years here were age 28-32. Hopefully O'Quinn can continue to improve like Kurt did.
Knixkik wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:O'Quinn is the best value Phil has ever gotten IMO from an FA signing in terms of both cost and production. Yeah, he should definitely get more minutes. It amazes me they won't give him more than 14 MPG.I think his minutes are climbing. Would like to see him up to 24 mpg. He should be a legit 8 pts, 8 rebs, 3 asts guy with solid defense. It really comes down to effort level with him and whatever approach he has now is working. This seems very sustainable. He is a legit starting PF/C in the league if he maintains his effort level. And i love his fit with KP and Melo. He is a willing passer and does the dirty work. He can also keep the defense honest.
True the min are increasing a little but I'd like to see him get 30 consistent minutes a night right now.
Knixkik wrote:Finestrg wrote:Knixkik wrote:Finestrg wrote:He's been possibly the most pleasant surprise this season. After last year, I don't think anybody expected much from him but he's been DAMN GOOD thus far. I ripped into him a little before the season started, saying we should trade him and whatnot, was an overrated passer, etc. but I'm happy to say I was wrong on him. He's been a rock for us, esp. of late (the last few weeks). I'm glad he's still here. I think he even has more potential offensively too -- if he were afforded a little more freedom, I think this guy could knock down 3s very comfortably. I guess you probably wouldn't want to see that regularly as it would take away opportunities from our other primary scorers but the potential's certainly there. Very happy with his work inside (showing much more toughness this season, great on putbacks, has that knack for finishing strong with two hands using his body well to shield off defenders, real good passer, good jump-shooter... I'd have no problem with him starting--it probably would be for the best.Yeah i wanted to like him badly last year, he showed some flashes, but didn't bring it every night. But this year, with KP, Noah being signed, Willy looking good, and the idea of playing more small ball with Melo, Lance, or Kuz at the 4, i really thought O'Quinn was the odd man out and didn't see a place for him. But he has completely overcome that situation and has been so good he not only belongs in the rotation but really deserves to start. Given he is still young, he has some pretty good potential to continue to improve and become a pretty incredible role player. He has no real hole or weakness in his game, it all comes down to just wanting to compete each game and not taking any nights off for him to be effective in this role.
No doubt. I don't know why I thought of these two as they're all different players (maybe because they're all big men role players) but for argument's sake, compare him to Antonio and Dale Davis for a sec. How do you think he stacks up with those two? Maybe not quite as good as Antonio in his prime but more skilled than Dale? Is that fair? He's like our very own Davis brother.
Dale could be reasonable, but when we signed him, i was really hoping he would bring that Kurt Thomas-type game here. It obviously didn't happen last season, but it looks more like it this season. O'Quinn, like Thomas, has the quality mid-range jumper and physicality and effort level to be an absolute elite role player. Thomas also was sort of a late bloomer, as his best years here were age 28-32. Hopefully O'Quinn can continue to improve like Kurt did.
Yeah, good call. Kyle is closer to KT than either of those Davis guys. KT probably had a little more in the post and Kyle's got more range on the jumper but that's a better comparison.
I don't have a big problem with the big man rotation. Noah, KOQ and Willy are solid but Jeff has to figure out the best Lineups a bit better going forward.
fishmike wrote:He's perfect where he is off the bench. He's a better fit with the uptempo Jennings group. Also nothing stops him from playing 30 minutes if he's having one of the those nights, and JH has let him log those minutes.
To me it seems like he is better in the half court game, playing next to guys like Melo, KP, and Rose. He passes very well in the half court game, so if guys are cutting and moving, he finds them. His weakness, from what i have seen, is his slow outlet passes, which he has gotten better at. He is a little slow on the rebound and likes to think for a second after getting a defensive rebound. Noah on the other hand, will score more in a faster offense and when he grabs a rebound, he will push the ball himself until he finds the PG. That skillset seems to fit better with Jennings who wants to push the pace all of the time. O'Quinn just looks so nice with KP and Melo, where he might slow Jennings down. This is just my perspective based on what i have seen when we are playing well. Things can always change.
Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:He's perfect where he is off the bench. He's a better fit with the uptempo Jennings group. Also nothing stops him from playing 30 minutes if he's having one of the those nights, and JH has let him log those minutes.To me it seems like he is better in the half court game, playing next to guys like Melo, KP, and Rose. He passes very well in the half court game, so if guys are cutting and moving, he finds them. His weakness, from what i have seen, is his slow outlet passes, which he has gotten better at. He is a little slow on the rebound and likes to think for a second after getting a defensive rebound. Noah on the other hand, will score more in a faster offense and when he grabs a rebound, he will push the ball himself until he finds the PG. That skillset seems to fit better with Jennings who wants to push the pace all of the time. O'Quinn just looks so nice with KP and Melo, where he might slow Jennings down. This is just my perspective based on what i have seen when we are playing well. Things can always change.
Yes, noticed this too
Knixkik wrote:thats fine and no disagreement... mostly my point is there is no reason to start KOQ over Noah. Bad message and doesnt make the Knicks better. Our center rotation with or without Noah has been a strength. I see zero reason to change it.fishmike wrote:He's perfect where he is off the bench. He's a better fit with the uptempo Jennings group. Also nothing stops him from playing 30 minutes if he's having one of the those nights, and JH has let him log those minutes.To me it seems like he is better in the half court game, playing next to guys like Melo, KP, and Rose. He passes very well in the half court game, so if guys are cutting and moving, he finds them. His weakness, from what i have seen, is his slow outlet passes, which he has gotten better at. He is a little slow on the rebound and likes to think for a second after getting a defensive rebound. Noah on the other hand, will score more in a faster offense and when he grabs a rebound, he will push the ball himself until he finds the PG. That skillset seems to fit better with Jennings who wants to push the pace all of the time. O'Quinn just looks so nice with KP and Melo, where he might slow Jennings down. This is just my perspective based on what i have seen when we are playing well. Things can always change.
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:thats fine and no disagreement... mostly my point is there is no reason to start KOQ over Noah. Bad message and doesnt make the Knicks better. Our center rotation with or without Noah has been a strength. I see zero reason to change it.fishmike wrote:He's perfect where he is off the bench. He's a better fit with the uptempo Jennings group. Also nothing stops him from playing 30 minutes if he's having one of the those nights, and JH has let him log those minutes.To me it seems like he is better in the half court game, playing next to guys like Melo, KP, and Rose. He passes very well in the half court game, so if guys are cutting and moving, he finds them. His weakness, from what i have seen, is his slow outlet passes, which he has gotten better at. He is a little slow on the rebound and likes to think for a second after getting a defensive rebound. Noah on the other hand, will score more in a faster offense and when he grabs a rebound, he will push the ball himself until he finds the PG. That skillset seems to fit better with Jennings who wants to push the pace all of the time. O'Quinn just looks so nice with KP and Melo, where he might slow Jennings down. This is just my perspective based on what i have seen when we are playing well. Things can always change.
Yeah there is no reason to change the lineup, for now at least. Maybe later in the year, or next year. O'Quinn can continue to play more minutes with the starters. As far who starts, there is no real concern there, unless we continue to have slow starts, which has clearly been the case with Noah in the lineup. But it is still too small of a sample size to determine he is the reason.