Knicks · The coach has been very solid (page 1)

but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

Disagree that Baker's contribution was limited. He got the ball moving, found teammates, helped spark the the run that got us back in it. If he can shoot a little more, Im guessing that Baker will get more PT.

Not known is is if you DON"T rest players they get tired and can also faulted.
Part of the maturation process of this team is to install players you are developing and not just in garbage time.
Might have contributed to the loss, but over all if this kid can play, he contributes either on the floor or as a trade asset.
This season is about not the first 25 games but the last 20!
credit PHX for shutting down Melo, got KP in foul trouble and found a way to win. Even without Rose. Credit knicks for hanging in on a tough nite for them.

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

I kinda agree. We got some non-destructive minutes out of Baker and I think we pushed it too long. I would've preferred to see Sasha out there, but I won't kill Hornacek over this one. You gotta see what certain guys can do at some point.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

Disagree that Baker's contribution was limited. He got the ball moving, found teammates, helped spark the the run that got us back in it. If he can shoot a little more, Im guessing that Baker will get more PT.

maybe I am being too hard but I remember a couple dopey fouls and blowing that layup on the nice pass from KOQ. The turnovers late killed us also. Not hating on the guy, I just wasnt impressed. I dont know... I kept thinking he's trying really hard but not an NBA player. At least not yet.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

Disagree that Baker's contribution was limited. He got the ball moving, found teammates, helped spark the the run that got us back in it. If he can shoot a little more, Im guessing that Baker will get more PT.

maybe I am being too hard but I remember a couple dopey fouls and blowing that layup on the nice pass from KOQ. The turnovers late killed us also. Not hating on the guy, I just wasnt impressed. I dont know... I kept thinking he's trying really hard but not an NBA player. At least not yet.

Rookie mistakes aside, I seriously doubt that run would have been made without him. Kid has barely played but helped spark a run off the bench. Deserves more PT IMO.

I really like Baker. He didn't have quite the impact we would've liked last night (missed some shots) but he's a player. Real good feel for it, excellent passer, entry passes, etc.. Sasha's been good but I liked that we gave Baker a look last night and thought he did fine, esp. considering he hasn't played in a long time.

Agree that Hornacek's been solid. He's demonstrated a great feel for this roster up to this point and it's getting better and better each game. The one thing I was thinking after last night's game -- maybe Kuz could've helped us, esp. with Melo struggling. Lance looked shaky throughout and Melo had an off night again--maybe Kuz could've helped offset that a little last night but all in all, it's hard to get on Jeff for anything. He's been great. Very happy with our coach. It may not always work out but I trust him and whatever he decides to do game to game. PJ Tucker really manned up & took Melo out of it for the most part--gotta give that dude credit. That was the game right there. KP fouling out really hurt us too. I tell ya though--minus Rose (who, let's face it, is a HUGE part of what we do out there--not trying to make excuses but not having Rose around really hurts us big time) and Melo struggling, yet we battled back down 12 on the road to take command of that game late. Couldn't seal it (and man, KP had a great look for the game at the end of regulation--just didn't fall but I take that for the game every time) but that comeback was impressive. This team's made some nice progress.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

Disagree that Baker's contribution was limited. He got the ball moving, found teammates, helped spark the the run that got us back in it. If he can shoot a little more, Im guessing that Baker will get more PT.

maybe I am being too hard but I remember a couple dopey fouls and blowing that layup on the nice pass from KOQ. The turnovers late killed us also. Not hating on the guy, I just wasnt impressed. I dont know... I kept thinking he's trying really hard but not an NBA player. At least not yet.

Rookie mistakes aside, I seriously doubt that run would have been made without him. Kid has barely played but helped spark a run off the bench. Deserves more PT IMO.

over who? I mean if Rose is out I am not sure I would go with Baker over Sasha. Knicks are a bad week from being below .500

Hard to live with rookie guard play at this point. Maybe later but I wouldnt be giving much burn to Baker at this point. Respectfully disagree

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

Disagree that Baker's contribution was limited. He got the ball moving, found teammates, helped spark the the run that got us back in it. If he can shoot a little more, Im guessing that Baker will get more PT.

maybe I am being too hard but I remember a couple dopey fouls and blowing that layup on the nice pass from KOQ. The turnovers late killed us also. Not hating on the guy, I just wasnt impressed. I dont know... I kept thinking he's trying really hard but not an NBA player. At least not yet.

Rookie mistakes aside, I seriously doubt that run would have been made without him. Kid has barely played but helped spark a run off the bench. Deserves more PT IMO.

over who? I mean if Rose is out I am not sure I would go with Baker over Sasha. Knicks are a bad week from being below .500

Hard to live with rookie guard play at this point. Maybe later but I wouldnt be giving much burn to Baker at this point. Respectfully disagree

With Rose hurting (probably not for the last time) the bench is going to have to help pick up the slack. Would prefer to see Baker get more PT over Sasha, especially after last night.

Should add fish I believe Sasha would be of better use later in the season, for a possible playoff run. Even if Sasha was a little better off the bench, dont believe its enough not to try and develop Baker. What I like about his game is that he is unpredictable about who is going to dish the ball to, mixes things up, keeps the other team guessing. Sasha seems more deliberate.

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

he sure did, and I mention that in the game thread when the suns called a time out and we went up by 6. upon returning from the time out, baker had a ill-advised pass, and shot a very contested layup, then watched Bledsoe goes coast to coast on him.

JH has been pretty good for the most part, but he has drop the ball on a few games that cost us, last night was one.

I find these kinds of threads mostly ridiculous.

A coach can replace or keep players in a hundred times a game. Pointing out that a player made a couple of mistakes after the fact - then pointing out the coach obviously should have pulled him is silly. The coach is coaching in real-time - not after the fact.

Every game lost you could say the coach should have done something different - but you are comparing a "whatif" against a real scenario and you have no idea if your "whatif" would have worked out any better.

Not much coach can do when 6 players combine for a staggering 5-37 for a 13.5% shooting. If not for KP, O'Quin, Lee and Noah this team would have been dismantled easily. Once again 6 players combined for 5-37.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

classic case of "downside"

I think one his strongest aspects of coaching is he gives guys burn. They get in and the know they arent getting yanked. I 100% agree he stayed with Baker waaaay too long. I think part of that was simply that group was playing well (despite Baker's limited contributions) and Jennings was not having a good night, so it was just a case of riding with what was working.

I also thought he should have gone back to Lee earlier. Lee has been fantastic on both ends of the court.

Tough loss before GS, but if they can win in Denver and come back 3-2 over a 5 game trip you sign up for that at this point in the season. I would expect us to win this type of game later on in the year, but 25 games in the coach is still feeling things out a bit.

The good of it all is we got nothing from Rose and Melo, and still were a KP jumper from getting a win at the end of regulation.

Disagree that Baker's contribution was limited. He got the ball moving, found teammates, helped spark the the run that got us back in it. If he can shoot a little more, Im guessing that Baker will get more PT.

maybe I am being too hard but I remember a couple dopey fouls and blowing that layup on the nice pass from KOQ. The turnovers late killed us also. Not hating on the guy, I just wasnt impressed. I dont know... I kept thinking he's trying really hard but not an NBA player. At least not yet.

Rookie mistakes aside, I seriously doubt that run would have been made without him. Kid has barely played but helped spark a run off the bench. Deserves more PT IMO.

over who? I mean if Rose is out I am not sure I would go with Baker over Sasha. Knicks are a bad week from being below .500

Hard to live with rookie guard play at this point. Maybe later but I wouldnt be giving much burn to Baker at this point. Respectfully disagree

With Rose hurting (probably not for the last time) the bench is going to have to help pick up the slack. Would prefer to see Baker get more PT over Sasha, especially after last night.

I would be inclined to start Sasha with the starters and tell Jennings whether he gets 35 minutes off the bench or 15 will depend on how he plays. But its apples to apples... either could thrive or flop. I just lean towards the vet.

GustavBahler wrote:Should add fish I believe Sasha would be of better use later in the season, for a possible playoff run. Even if Sasha was a little better off the bench, dont believe its enough not to try and develop Baker. What I like about his game is that he is unpredictable about who is going to dish the ball to, mixes things up, keeps the other team guessing. Sasha seems more deliberate.

yea sure... cant disagree

I think Horny's worst move was putting Melo, who's been mostly very bad recently, back in the game when we were rolling without him. Melo seems to be disintegrating before our very eyes. It wouldn't be half as bad if he would just stop shooting when they're not falling but he won't.

His other bad move was taking O'Quinn out even for a second near the end as good as he was playing.

Baker has to be developed. It's been too long IMO. We need another guard who can defend smaller, quicker guards than Sasha can handle. Baker can and will play better than he did last night IMO. He needs more minutes to get his comfort level. People are too quick to make judgements on guys like they did with Holiday early on. Jeff has been good about letting guys play a bit long so they can relax and get into the game. I hope Baker plays in GS as well. He needs minutes and we need another guard to help out.

Didn't listen to the second half, but Horny does give the yoots burn, even when they're truly bad.

Kuz/Cheese sounded like he was doing a circus clown out there on the break, trying to do his "euro-spin" as they called it. You don't get away with that sheehit in the NBA, bro. Rookie mistakes. He will learn.

I'm guessing so will Baker.

jrodmc wrote:Didn't listen to the second half, but Horny does give the yoots burn, even when they're truly bad.

Kuz/Cheese sounded like he was doing a circus clown out there on the break, trying to do his "euro-spin" as they called it. You don't get away with that sheehit in the NBA, bro. Rookie mistakes. He will learn.

I'm guessing so will Baker.

yeah. but you don't player rookies in the clutch, unless you have no choice, that's a fact in any sport.

This was a suns team that cough up a 12 pt 4th qtr lead within mins, something they have been doing a lot, right along with mini, pelicans, sixers, and basically all of the young teams.

With all the boneheaded turnovers the suns had, it was the only reason we were in the game.

BRIGGS wrote:but last night at 3:20 that was his worst decision of year. He over played Baker and took out Oquinn. We shouldve had that wrapped +6. Give him credit for playing a team that smothered up phoenix but he rode the pony to hard and long.

I screamed at the TV when he inserted Melo for KOQ.

I had no problem with Baker in the game even with the couple of decisions he made he was a +8 in 15 mins in his 1st pressure situation of the season. Fact is the team was playing, moving, defending well and Jeff went to Melo -- subsequently things bogged down and mistakes made.

I could have lived with Melo for Lance but Melo for KOQ with Lance staying -- dang Jeff. If we were concerned with defending the perimeter bring C-Lee back in for Lance.