Melo cant guard 3s
KP cant guard 4s
We have some scoring firepower that is for sure, and if/when KP/Melo/Rose are playing well its an impossible offense to defend, but boy we give up a lot of points and a lot of open shots.
This is a problem for stretches of the game but not all of every game. It seems like Jeff tries to mitigate this at key junctures when the team plays smaller and have Melo and KP at the 4 and 5 spot. It's an issue that Phil may eventually have to deal with but for now Jeff does have the ability to switch up his rotations which can help.
In the end I think it's going to be very important to make sure that the offense is operating at is maximum for more of each game and look to close each quarter with our best defensive units. Jeff has a lot of good options when he has Melo and KP at the 4 and 5 spot.
It all points to Noah...If he can play better we could be a decent defensive team. All in all, we need to be Like the Rockets, a high powered offensive team. We just don't have the players or the coaching staff to make us an above avg defensive team
KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.
Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
Chandler wrote:KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
if melo was relentless on defense, do you still think he would have the legs and energy to hit shots down the stretch..
Chandler wrote:KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
Yup...I'm on record saying that KP looks inside too much...you can do that with certain PFs, but against a good shooter? The one other thing to consider is that when he gets beaten on the drive it's frequently because he is closing out on his man who is on the perimeter, who then fakes the 3 and drives around him.
Also agree that he needs to lower his center of gravity on D, which is hard for a guy his height.
Maybe they have some stats which show sagging off works, but I've commented on him doing this a great deal, and find it annoying that the coaches haven't adjusted things.
Anthony doesn't seem to have the energy to consistently guard at the 3, but he is still able to do it at times.
Not having the greatest perimeter D is also an issue...don't know if this is a coachable issue, but when our bigs are committing to a penetrator and that person passes out or into the man our big was guarding, I don't see that as a problem for our bigs, since one of their jobs is to protect the interior. Don't know if this is a fighting through picks issue, or switching properly, or whatever.
knicks1248 wrote:Chandler wrote:KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
if melo was relentless on defense, do you still think he would have the legs and energy to hit shots down the stretch..
An issue for many players...not many Jordans or James who are able to play hard on both ends. He can still be more selective in as far as when he gives maximum effort on D.
Chandler wrote:KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
EVERY TIME. I dont understand how they can continually let that go. This is a simple two man game. I mean if KP helps in on that weak side and his man is set for a 3 its just too easy. Someone else has to rotate. And if they dont fix THAT, but KP cant help if his man is set up for the 3. Thats WHY there is such a thing as the stretch 4, to stretch the D and pull the defender out of the paint, OR get an easy set 3. Someone could create a youtube video of "what a stretch 4 does" and just show footage of guys that KP covers.
This isnt meant to knock either player, rather talk about the makeup of the team. KP is 21. If he doesnt blossom into an elite player we will have to settle for all star. He will be fine. Melo isnt turning the corner on this. I do think we would really limit his minutes to 32 to keep his engine strong, but its tough as a coach. An easy reminder of why you stick with Melo was the Indy game... I think he was 5-13 at one point and the whole team was lackluster.
Melo and KP are here to stay so Im not sure what gives. playing them with no center has worked at times. Playing them with two PGs has helped the ball move (but we lose Lee's 3&D).
I like our talent level... alot. But I see some "clumsy" aspects of this roster.
They also have Pgs who can't guard Pgs
also Melo's late game defense is good. He may not be a stopper but he's good. Asking him to bring that for the whole game just isnt going to happen. Its about getting the best play out of Melo we can get. I think that 30ish mins vs. 35 would make a positive impact on Melo's game.
knicks1248 wrote:Chandler wrote:KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
if melo was relentless on defense, do you still think he would have the legs and energy to hit shots down the stretch..
When he tires you sit him. Trading baskets isn't the answer for a host of reasons including team psyche
All the greats were two way players. Melo showed some desire last year. Hoping rose and Noah hold him accountable
yellowboy90 wrote:They also have Pgs who can't guard Pgs
Be nice. It's not that bad. They at least move their feet and fight over screens
fishmike wrote:also Melo's late game defense is good. He may not be a stopper but he's good. Asking him to bring that for the whole game just isnt going to happen. Its about getting the best play out of Melo we can get. I think that 30ish mins vs. 35 would make a positive impact on Melo's game.
He's very talented and could be a great defender. He's just way too inconsistent.
It's tough work. Often thankless. And good D has no sexy stat. Eg. Getting back in transition. Talking. Making your opponent go left
fishmike wrote:Chandler wrote:KP's issues are fixable. they need to decide if they want him out on stretch 4s or sagging off in the pant. He over-estimates his ability to close quickly enough and gets burned.Also he needs to bend at the knees more and make a wider base -- that alone given his length and his spider arms can make him a terror. This will all come in time, I think
Melo at 3 is a problem. He's not getting any faster. He could show more desire and consistency (and killer instinct) but I'm not holding my breath
EVERY TIME. I dont understand how they can continually let that go. This is a simple two man game. I mean if KP helps in on that weak side and his man is set for a 3 its just too easy. Someone else has to rotate. And if they dont fix THAT, but KP cant help if his man is set up for the 3. Thats WHY there is such a thing as the stretch 4, to stretch the D and pull the defender out of the paint, OR get an easy set 3. Someone could create a youtube video of "what a stretch 4 does" and just show footage of guys that KP covers.This isnt meant to knock either player, rather talk about the makeup of the team. KP is 21. If he doesnt blossom into an elite player we will have to settle for all star. He will be fine. Melo isnt turning the corner on this. I do think we would really limit his minutes to 32 to keep his engine strong, but its tough as a coach. An easy reminder of why you stick with Melo was the Indy game... I think he was 5-13 at one point and the whole team was lackluster.
Melo and KP are here to stay so Im not sure what gives. playing them with no center has worked at times. Playing them with two PGs has helped the ball move (but we lose Lee's 3&D).
I like our talent level... alot. But I see some "clumsy" aspects of this roster.
I actually think there is enough diversity to get it done. Holiday is giving this team really good flexibility on D and he fills in nicely on offense. It's not a perfect roster but you still have Kuz as a legit 6-9 shooter. I think the real missing piece is a guy like Randle who can hit the 3 as well as penetrate. It's not only about the defense but how we make other teams work on Defense trying to stop us. It's gonna be harder to do the more we stretch them out and so I like the idea of having a kid like Randle in the mix if we ever bring him up.
fishmike wrote:Melo cant guard 3s
KP cant guard 4sWe have some scoring firepower that is for sure, and if/when KP/Melo/Rose are playing well its an impossible offense to defend, but boy we give up a lot of points and a lot of open shots.
Yeah, agreed.
According to 82games - http://www.82games.com/1617/1617NYK2.HTM - one of our best lineups this year by Offensive and Defensive efficiency is:
Rose
CLee
Holiday
Melo
KP
Offensive efficiency: 1.28
Defensive efficiency: .85
You can see how much better they are when they have both Holiday and CLee out there to chase guys around screens at both the SG and SF.
Only problem is - it's our 19th most used 5man rotation and has only played 13 minutes together all season. I'd like to see more of that lineup. I feel like Hornacek has used it a few times in the 4th quarter recently. It'd be nice to break out more often. Maybe in the second quarter and fourth quarter.
Justin Holiday has been an unexpected gift this season - I think it'd be really important to even draft another defensive 2 or 3 who can hit the three. (Unless there's a good PG at our draft slot)
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Melo cant guard 3s
KP cant guard 4sWe have some scoring firepower that is for sure, and if/when KP/Melo/Rose are playing well its an impossible offense to defend, but boy we give up a lot of points and a lot of open shots.
Yeah, agreed.
According to 82games - http://www.82games.com/1617/1617NYK2.HTM - one of our best lineups this year by Offensive and Defensive efficiency is:
Rose
CLee
Holiday
Melo
KP
Offensive efficiency: 1.28
Defensive efficiency: .85
You can see how much better they are when they have both Holiday and CLee out there to chase guys around screens at both the SG and SF.
Only problem is - it's our 19th most used 5man rotation and has only played 13 minutes together all season. I'd like to see more of that lineup. I feel like Hornacek has used it a few times in the 4th quarter recently. It'd be nice to break out more often. Maybe in the second quarter and fourth quarter.
Justin Holiday has been an unexpected gift this season - I think it'd be really important to even draft another defensive 2 or 3 who can hit the three. (Unless there's a good PG at our draft slot)
Thats way to small a sample to take that into consideration
knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:Melo cant guard 3s
KP cant guard 4sWe have some scoring firepower that is for sure, and if/when KP/Melo/Rose are playing well its an impossible offense to defend, but boy we give up a lot of points and a lot of open shots.
Yeah, agreed.
According to 82games - http://www.82games.com/1617/1617NYK2.HTM - one of our best lineups this year by Offensive and Defensive efficiency is:
Rose
CLee
Holiday
Melo
KP
Offensive efficiency: 1.28
Defensive efficiency: .85
You can see how much better they are when they have both Holiday and CLee out there to chase guys around screens at both the SG and SF.
Only problem is - it's our 19th most used 5man rotation and has only played 13 minutes together all season. I'd like to see more of that lineup. I feel like Hornacek has used it a few times in the 4th quarter recently. It'd be nice to break out more often. Maybe in the second quarter and fourth quarter.
Justin Holiday has been an unexpected gift this season - I think it'd be really important to even draft another defensive 2 or 3 who can hit the three. (Unless there's a good PG at our draft slot)
Thats way to small a sample to take that into consideration
It's not too small a sample size to say "hey, this is worth another look."
knicks1248 wrote:It all points to Noah...If he can play better we could be a decent defensive team. All in all, we need to be Like the Rockets, a high powered offensive team. We just don't have the players or the coaching staff to make us an above avg defensive team
Ummmmmmmm huh?? We don't need to play like the Rockets and we don't have the players to play that way and i don't think it's the coaching staff that's the cause for the bad defense i think it's the players. Fishmike is right that Melo can't guard most 3's and KP can't keep up with a lot of the 4's in the NBA cause he's just to long and slow to keep up with them. I think JH will get it right with his rotations and play a small ball lineup in the 4th quarter or the 2nd half of the 4th quarter when he's able to where Melo will be a better defender of the PF's and KP can use his length on the 5's but his strength will come into question against a lot of the 5's in the league.
I agree KP can't guard stretch 4s, but I think it's the teams failure to rotate that makes KP looks bad in a lot of cases. If our guards could defend even an iota against dribble penetration then KP wouldn't have to cheat off his player to help inside. Melo was never a good defender and that ship had sailed long ago. Can't put all of this on Noah and Lee others need to play defense. We can't be playing 2.5 on 5 defense in the playoffs. Rose and Jennings along with Melo are the biggest culprits, they will have to step up their defense. I don't care if that means Melo can't make shots down the stretch. With the type of defense we are playing now, we won't need to worry about "down the stretch" in playoffs. One of the big reasons our second unit restores parity in games where we give up a lead early, is defense.
meloshouldgo wrote:I agree KP can't guard stretch 4s, but I think it's the teams failure to rotate that makes KP looks bad in a lot of cases. If our guards could defend even an iota against dribble penetration then KP wouldn't have to cheat off his player to help inside. Melo was never a good defender and that ship had sailed long ago. Can't put all of this on Noah and Lee others need to play defense. We can't be playing 2.5 on 5 defense in the playoffs. Rose and Jennings along with Melo are the biggest culprits, they will have to step up their defense. I don't care if that means Melo can't make shots down the stretch. With the type of defense we are playing now, we won't need to worry about "down the stretch" in playoffs. One of the big reasons our second unit restores parity in games where we give up a lead early, is defense.
The bold. I think he can guard them, he just doesnt. KP is playing it like the "old days." If Oakley set up behind 3 would a guy like Thorpe or Grant come out and guard him? No they would sag and let Oakley beat them with the 3 before they guarded it. Problem is KP is constantly getting beat by the 3 and still doesnt guard it. Is that inexperience? Coaching's prerogative? I can only make assumptions. The puzzling/dismaying thing is it continues to go on and seems incredibly obvious to me. Last night if Ibaka wasnt cold the Magic are in that game. He was left alone most of the night if he wanted to hoist 3s.
I get the part about letting the shoot till their shot goes in then stepping out to defend it. I think KP's instincts are to defend the post. My problem is that our inability to guard against PGs that drive to the hoop leaves us exposed that KP has to overcompensate for it. In short we are really asking him to guard against both threats with no help. Till that changes and we provide him help consistently, it's hard to make the case one way or another.
