Knicks · Pull the plug on this roster (page 2)

arkrud wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

There is nothing that can help Knicks to win in next 2 year unless Melo will move on.

Can you explain why they haven't won the last 14 times he hasn't played? Are you looking at the value they would get if he waived his ntc clause? If so can you explain why he would waive his ntc?

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

This can happen that's the thing man. Melo has the ability to waive that clause, if he is getting sick of trying to carry this team and believes he can win more elsewhere he won't stick around, especially when he has pressured Phil to put a contending team around him which has not happened. We aren't winning being led by Melo so surely some mutually beneficial deal for all involved can be reached. Maybe it's time the Knicks take one step back to take two forward? Once again, it's just my opinion on what might happen.

Knicks67 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

This can happen that's the thing man. Melo has the ability to waive that clause, if he is getting sick of trying to carry this team and believes he can win more elsewhere he won't stick around, especially when he has pressured Phil to put a contending team around him which has not happened. We aren't winning being led by Melo so surely some mutually beneficial deal for all involved can be reached. Maybe it's time the Knicks take one step back to take two forward? Once again, it's just my opinion on what might happen.

They don't win without him. Knick fans like when the KNicks win. He doesn't want to leave. Phil brought in vets to play with him. The Knicks are a unique team, they brought in 3 guys that were at least 6 year vets and added them to their starting line up. They also brought in 5 rookies. I think Melo thinks he is going to win every time he steps on the court. His peers have called him the toughest cover. Phil resigned him. The solution you are seeking isn't going to happen and isn't the best thing for the team. Phil resigned him and gave him an ntc.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

arkrud wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

There is nothing that can help Knicks to win in next 2 year unless Melo will move on.

Only 2yrs left? Nice!

I mean look at the Celtics, they knew when to move Garnett and Pierce to the Nets because they got the ability to reset. They got a ton of picks and now have a very good lineup with the ability to pursue a lot of stars with their assets. It's just an options the Knicks have, obviously if you can get Paul or someone then do so, but you have to be open to the idea of looking towards the future I suppose.

What drives me nuts when people bring the knicks record up the last 2 years without Melo is that they ignore the fact the choice isnt the roster with melo, or without. its with melo or 25 million in cap space draft picks and maybe a young player. Of course if you just take melo off the team without factoring in those assets the knicks are worse. Its an asinine comparision.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

There is nothing that will help this roster be better than .500

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

Yeah, he talks about the team being brand new, then rakes up the 0-14 record from the previous season as if those players are still here. if anything, they are 0-1 without KP because Melo actually played.

Irrational responses to injury plague run by team expected to win about 41-46 games at best.
This happens to teams, and knicks with 9 new players, 3 starters get hit with injuries there is a process that is not always pleasant.

I know fans set the bar for the high-water mark during the season and no doubt this team is 4 seed when all is healthy. but thats not real, right?

Reminder, Melo has a no trade clause in his contract.
Relax, Melo played hurt, KP was protected so he don't pop his heel, and this stuff just happens!

Melo is staying gotta make it work with him, just gotta have the rest of the team make up for his paltry 2.8 assists per game, no leadership, ISO ball moving killer style of play.

Rose is not as bad but pretty close. Your 32 MPG PG is averaging 4.4 APG and when he decides he is gonna drive to the basket and puts his head down any open man is ignored. His shot selection is not as bad as it was the beginning of the year, i'm fine with him driving to the basket a lot and taking those floater but take a look more often at open team mates.

Jennings... thought he was better earlier in the season did not realize he is a CAREER .390/.348 SHOOTER. Can he shoot? YES, but he forces so many bad shots.

Porzingis has trouble catching/getting position for the post up ball and ends up getting the ball a bit too far out and misses baskets that he would probably make if he was just another 5 feet closer. I have barely seen him do the over and under which should be a staple of his. I seen Hernangomez do it pretty damn well. Why isn't the coaching staff making Porzingis learn this with Hernangomez and why aren't they forcing Porzingis to learn the hook? OMG can you imagine him learning the sky hook?!?!? Also why is Porzingis taking such big steps/big step back to shoot the ball in the post up when 80% of the PF's in the league can't really guard him? At least he hasn't been dribbling as much. Porzingis should post up all day everyday cmon!!!

I'd rather have O'Quinn/Gomez and trade Noah/Lance for a SF.

O'Quinn/Gomez
Porzingis/Melo/SF
Holiday/Lee/Rose/Jennings

That would be my 9 man rotation

Jmpasq wrote:What drives me nuts when people bring the knicks record up the last 2 years without Melo is that they ignore the fact the choice isnt the roster with melo, or without. its with melo or 25 million in cap space draft picks and maybe a young player. Of course if you just take melo off the team without factoring in those assets the knicks are worse. Its an asinine comparision.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

Yeah obviously you can't just take 25 mil off a roster without a replacement and expect the team to be as good

Nalod wrote:Irrational responses to injury plague run by team expected to win about 41-46 games at best.
This happens to teams, and knicks with 9 new players, 3 starters get hit with injuries there is a process that is not always pleasant.

I know fans set the bar for the high-water mark during the season and no doubt this team is 4 seed when all is healthy. but thats not real, right?

Reminder, Melo has a no trade clause in his contract.
Relax, Melo played hurt, KP was protected so he don't pop his heel, and this stuff just happens!

Injury plagued? The "big 3" have played in about 95 percent of the games. They've had an improbable degree of good health so far. They were definitely not expected by most sources to have the kind of win total you mentioned.

Also, the team has a point differential close to -100, which means they've been playing much worse than their record. Usually early in the season, the point differential is more indicative than current record of where the team will end up. When you add up these factors (improbable good health, negative point differential), it looks like you have an overachieving low .400s team.

This roster isn't going to win without everyone being healthy period. This team is not better without Melo and last night had more to do with Jennings playing like an above average NBA guard offensively against a team that doesn't m8nd giving up points. Jennings doesn't drive enough and his jumper is too suspect to rely on consistently. The defense still gave up 28 and 30 pt qtrs without Melo. Melo has looked awful but he always look awful when he plays through pain. They need to let him rest a week and let him get a little healthier.

There is no trading Melo so to make this roster better. i would trade for Lou Williams, James Johnson, and Tim Frazier which would mean O'Quinn, Jennings, and a couple second rd picks would have to go. if they were really smart they would pkg Lee and O'quinn together and see what they can get. Lee is really a good bench player and part time starter but his defense is starting to slip. they should try to take advantage of teams maybe biting on his high 3pt%

Re: KP

His troubles is all on him. when teams can guard a 7'3 player with their 6'4 guard in the post something is wrong and thats on that player to win in those situations but KP is not there yet.

yellowboy90 wrote:This roster isn't going to win without everyone being healthy period. This team is not better without Melo and last night had more to do with Jennings playing like an above average NBA guard offensively against a team that doesn't m8nd giving up points. Jennings doesn't drive enough and his jumper is too suspect to rely on consistently. The defense still gave up 28 and 30 pt qtrs without Melo. Melo has looked awful but he always look awful when he plays through pain. They need to let him rest a week and let him get a little healthier.

There is no trading Melo so to make this roster better. i would trade for Lou Williams, James Johnson, and Tim Frazier which would mean O'Quinn, Jennings, and a couple second rd picks would have to go. if they were really smart they would pkg Lee and O'quinn together and see what they can get. Lee is really a good bench player and part time starter but his defense is starting to slip. they should try to take advantage of teams maybe biting on his high 3pt%

Re: KP

His troubles is all on him. when teams can guard a 7'3 player with their 6'4 guard in the post something is wrong and thats on that player to win in those situations but KP is not there yet.

^^^^^
This...But to most people here the Unicorn is untouchable so lets ignore his flaws and just blame Melo....

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:This roster isn't going to win without everyone being healthy period. This team is not better without Melo and last night had more to do with Jennings playing like an above average NBA guard offensively against a team that doesn't m8nd giving up points. Jennings doesn't drive enough and his jumper is too suspect to rely on consistently. The defense still gave up 28 and 30 pt qtrs without Melo. Melo has looked awful but he always look awful when he plays through pain. They need to let him rest a week and let him get a little healthier.

There is no trading Melo so to make this roster better. i would trade for Lou Williams, James Johnson, and Tim Frazier which would mean O'Quinn, Jennings, and a couple second rd picks would have to go. if they were really smart they would pkg Lee and O'quinn together and see what they can get. Lee is really a good bench player and part time starter but his defense is starting to slip. they should try to take advantage of teams maybe biting on his high 3pt%

Re: KP

His troubles is all on him. when teams can guard a 7'3 player with their 6'4 guard in the post something is wrong and thats on that player to win in those situations but KP is not there yet.

^^^^^
This...But to most people here the Unicorn is untouchable so lets ignore his flaws and just blame Melo....

This isn't a thread about blaming Melo. The OP didn't mention Melo and most of the replies haven't either. I've mentioned Melo in a couple of replies but I'm not blaming him for anything. He's just one of about 10 or 12 players I'd like to exchange for cap space, assets, and a chance to build a legit team.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

Yeah, he talks about the team being brand new, then rakes up the 0-14 record from the previous season as if those players are still here. if anything, they are 0-1 without KP because Melo actually played.

0-14 in the Kristaps era. Sorry if I didn't clarify that.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

Yeah, he talks about the team being brand new, then rakes up the 0-14 record from the previous season as if those players are still here. if anything, they are 0-1 without KP because Melo actually played.

0-14 in the Kristaps era. Sorry if I didn't clarify that.

The Kristaps era? What the heck is that? This isn't his era. He's just 20 year old on a rookie contract who's still learning the NBA game. Why not call it the Kyle O'Quinn era? He's been on the team the last 2 years too.
I'd also point out that I don't think anyone here is saying that if you take Melo off the roster and replace him with nothing, the team would start winning.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

What games are you counting? They're 0-1 without him. Last year's team was terrible without him (and just bad with him) if that's what you're counting.

Yeah, he talks about the team being brand new, then rakes up the 0-14 record from the previous season as if those players are still here. if anything, they are 0-1 without KP because Melo actually played.

0-14 in the Kristaps era. Sorry if I didn't clarify that.

Yeah right, you clearly was talking about Melo because that's what you quoted. Not sure what a "Kristaps era" is. Wow, this is silly.

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

There is nothing that can help Knicks to win in next 2 year unless Melo will move on.

Can you explain why they haven't won the last 14 times he hasn't played?

Because then you have a $78 mil roster competing against $100 mil rosters. If the league told us our salary cap was going to be $24 mil less than all the other teams, it would be ridiculous, right? You can't just take $24 mil off a team, replace it with nothing, and expect the team to win.

Are you looking at the value they would get if he waived his ntc clause? If so can you explain why he would waive his ntc?

If he wants to win, he could be convinced to go elsewhere during a rebuild here. No one here could possibly no how important that is to him.

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knicks67 wrote:The team looks better without Melo, and I can almost guarantee I'm gonna get the "Knicks are 0-13 without him", but we finally have a crew that can contend with the Hawks and Rockets and take it to the brink without him. His lack of effort on D seems to influence others as we have at least looked better on D when Melo sits. The prospect of moving Melo to a contender like the Celtics where he would be happy, in return for Jaylen Brown and a Nets pick (or something of that nature) is seriously tempting. If he's the second option there to Thomas I guarantee he will excel taking his shots just in a limited sense, and we get youth and a pick to move forward with for Kp. Just my thoughts though

0-14. But I like watching the Nets because of the effort they put out. The Knicks don't win without Melo and he has a no trade clause. Can we focus on things that would help the KNicks win more and that might happen?

There is nothing that can help Knicks to win in next 2 year unless Melo will move on.

Can you explain why they haven't won the last 14 times he hasn't played? Are you looking at the value they would get if he waived his ntc clause? If so can you explain why he would waive his ntc?

Had to quote this one to catch you in your nonsense. The last 14 games goes back to BEFORE Porzingis was drafted. Melo missed 10 games last year and 1 this year for a total of 11.