Knicks · 16-19 - Last year at this time we had the exact same record... (page 2)
crzymdups wrote:Nalod wrote:we have our picks, we basically have an option on Rose, not Jose, and Willy is better than we expected.
Im looking at the process and we are in a better situation. But witout the benefit of hindsight, and after all, we are the knicks, its easy to fall into the dreadful feeling of despair.Devil's advocate, last year people were saying Langston Galloway was a promising young guard who was part of the future.
Your right, and he struggled last year.
I always saw him and Jose as bench players but solid in the rotation for a team with a better roster. I would have preferred Langston over Jennings.
But Pelicans came in big with some nice money and he had a chance to "come home" as well. Im happy for him!
If they can get back on track and stack some wins things should still work out well this season.
nixluva wrote:PERSPECTIVE!!! It seems that it isn't something Knicks fans can keep a handle on when things go bad. Despite the recent losing this current roster has more positives going for it. At its best this roster has a higher ceiling and some nice young talent. Not to mention draft picks.If they can get back on track and stack some wins things should still work out well this season.
This year will be full of streaks and highs and lows from our knee-jerk fanbase. Ultimately, we will either just barely make the playoffs or just miss, and either way we have our draft picks and a pretty bright future with KP and Hornacek so all is fine either way.
nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.
We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.
Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.
Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.
Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.
+1
martin wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.
We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.
Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.
Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.
Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.
+1
Yeah my focus is mainly on KP's development as well. I like us having one of the bright young stars in the league. As long as he develops on pace, it will be Unicorn vs Greek Freak in the east for a long time. Davis vs. Towns out west. The league should belong to these 4 guys in 5 years. We can live with the group we have now in the meantime, while adding young talent over the next few years. Draft correctly, sign young role players via free agency (i.e. O'Quinn) when they are available. This is how you build a team. No need to go all-in one direction or the other. Let the vets play out their late primes and build for the future simultaneously.
Nalod wrote:Man, if Fish was banging Clearanthony's wife (he even married?), and got knee shot, thats one really bad year!!!!
It was actually his girlfriend but you are right that was a rough period for Clay!
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.
We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.
Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.
Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.
Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.
+1
Yeah my focus is mainly on KP's development as well. I like us having one of the bright young stars in the league. As long as he develops on pace, it will be Unicorn vs Greek Freak in the east for a long time. Davis vs. Towns out west. The league should belong to these 4 guys in 5 years. We can live with the group we have now in the meantime, while adding young talent over the next few years. Draft correctly, sign young role players via free agency (i.e. O'Quinn) when they are available. This is how you build a team. No need to go all-in one direction or the other. Let the vets play out their late primes and build for the future simultaneously.
The only thing you develop is bad habits on a losing teams, that's why it takes longer for some young talent to develop into something-see Cousins, see melo-- if you don't believe this.
Boston has played 20 games on the road and won 12 of them. You can expect some home cooking from them soon enhancing their record further.
Hawks have played 19 games on the road so far and won 10 of them. You can expect some home cooking from them soon as well, provided they do not go in complete fire sale mode.
Can we beat Cleveland in a best of 7 series, no. How about Toronto? No. Boston? Tough but possible. Hawks? Sure, they don't win anything anyway.
How do we expect to catch Boston or Atlanta in the standings for a first round home advantage in a series, if we are so abysmal on the road? We have played more games at home and won far less overall because we are so crappy on the road...and we have more games left on the road than either one of them. I am not sure if Boston and Atlanta has faced more inferior competition than what we have faced on the road...I would say after 35 games that should be fairly even.
In other words, forget the home record...we need to improve our road play, because if we make the playoffs...that's where we are probably going to play our 1st game.
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:To me it shows that Rose and Jennings have not added the impact we were hoping. Same with Noah.KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.
We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.
Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.
Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.
Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.
+1
Yeah my focus is mainly on KP's development as well. I like us having one of the bright young stars in the league. As long as he develops on pace, it will be Unicorn vs Greek Freak in the east for a long time. Davis vs. Towns out west. The league should belong to these 4 guys in 5 years. We can live with the group we have now in the meantime, while adding young talent over the next few years. Draft correctly, sign young role players via free agency (i.e. O'Quinn) when they are available. This is how you build a team. No need to go all-in one direction or the other. Let the vets play out their late primes and build for the future simultaneously.
The only thing you develop is bad habits on a losing teams, that's why it takes longer for some young talent to develop into something-see Cousins, see melo-- if you don't believe this.
Which is why this team is better for KP's development. We might not be a good team, but trying to win and competing for a playoff spot matter for young players who are learning, even if we ultimately fall short.
gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Wasn't Fiaher also bangin Cleanthony Early'w wife?I think that was going around a bit. I think Windhorst confirmed the rumor about Fisher and Hardaway's girl.
His own players wife!I forgot about Hardaway.
Good grief lol
What's up with Fisher that all the women seem to want to drop their panties for him over their young hubbies? It's like he is the Brad Pitt of the NBA.
nixluva wrote:Yeah Jeff's preference is to play more like MDA or GS. This team wasn't built to play that fast and is kind of schizophrenic with some players wanting to play more old school and others wanting to play in Jeff's style. What I'm hoping for is Jeff making the adjustments to allow the team to play the Ball n Player movement style more minutes of every game. Reduced minutes for guys that cause the team to get stagnant. He's gotta react faster when the players don't do what he wants.
What I like about Jeff is unlike D'Antoni he does not become predictable or so reliant on one player - the point guard. Jeff has many great halfcourt sets. We don't just run and gun, and play like Houston. Houston is playing great, but it's also because they have James Harden. We don't have that sort of player.
Jeff's using size, and neither Golden State or MDA use much size. We kill teams on the glass on offense. We're not trying to play GS or MDA ball. We look to get KP at 4 in the post, or Melo at 3 in the post on mismatches. D'Antoni would never want that. Horny is a great mix of what old school ball was and what modern ball is. That's why I love his offense. We're about 12-13 in the league rating on offense. However we do need better athleticism. All of Phil Jackson's teams built around Kobe or Micheal Jordan were athletic and able to defend very well. This current Knicks team lacks the athleticism and speed to play that high pace and commit on defense. Although the last 2 games we have shown that we can if we go all out and if Horny gives more minutes to players who give more defensive effort like Lance Thomas and Ron Baker. However if we added more athletic players who could shoot from outside, it would go a long way in building a team around KP and Melo that could be able to play Horny's game plan to success.
I just don't think Rose will ever be the starting point guard in that type of team. His baskets and play is very one on one oriented. We already have two one on one players capable to score in Melo/KP. We need a point guard that is a leader on defense, can shoot from the outside and has good enough handles and speed that he can push the pace on offense when need be. We need another wing who is athletic and can shoot from outside. Two moves like that would go a long way for our defense and running Horny's game plan.
nyknickzingis wrote:nixluva wrote:Yeah Jeff's preference is to play more like MDA or GS. This team wasn't built to play that fast and is kind of schizophrenic with some players wanting to play more old school and others wanting to play in Jeff's style. What I'm hoping for is Jeff making the adjustments to allow the team to play the Ball n Player movement style more minutes of every game. Reduced minutes for guys that cause the team to get stagnant. He's gotta react faster when the players don't do what he wants.
What I like about Jeff is unlike D'Antoni he does not become predictable or so reliant on one player - the point guard. Jeff has many great halfcourt sets. We don't just run and gun, and play like Houston. Houston is playing great, but it's also because they have James Harden. We don't have that sort of player.Jeff's using size, and neither Golden State or MDA use much size. We kill teams on the glass on offense. We're not trying to play GS or MDA ball. We look to get KP at 4 in the post, or Melo at 3 in the post on mismatches. D'Antoni would never want that. Horny is a great mix of what old school ball was and what modern ball is. That's why I love his offense. We're about 12-13 in the league rating on offense. However we do need better athleticism. All of Phil Jackson's teams built around Kobe or Micheal Jordan were athletic and able to defend very well. This current Knicks team lacks the athleticism and speed to play that high pace and commit on defense. Although the last 2 games we have shown that we can if we go all out and if Horny gives more minutes to players who give more defensive effort like Lance Thomas and Ron Baker. However if we added more athletic players who could shoot from outside, it would go a long way in building a team around KP and Melo that could be able to play Horny's game plan to success.
I just don't think Rose will ever be the starting point guard in that type of team. His baskets and play is very one on one oriented. We already have two one on one players capable to score in Melo/KP. We need a point guard that is a leader on defense, can shoot from the outside and has good enough handles and speed that he can push the pace on offense when need be. We need another wing who is athletic and can shoot from outside. Two moves like that would go a long way for our defense and running Horny's game plan.
I agree with most of this. This is why I coveted Mike Conley (though not for $150M, yeeeesh)
Hornacek's offense is very good. They almost always score out of time outs or side out of bounds plays. The defense has been my big issue.
I didn't really start this thread to be anti-Hornacek at all. As I said, I still think the Fisher firing was bad. Anyway, it's over now and I like Hornacek... but the defense needs to improve. Even that Milwaukee game last night, they started what? 8-8 from 3pt range? 8-10? Most nights in the NBA, if you allow that kind of shooting or those kinds of quality looks from 3, you are going to lose. I love the spirit they showed in coming back, but most nights, that's another loss. They have to tighten up the D at the 3pt line - which has a fair amount to do with the breakdowns their guards are allowing on pick and rolls - it's all cause and effect. Fisher was pretty good at having the Knicks run the opposing team off the line and that worked well.