Knicks · State of the Knicks (We still have Porzingis) (page 1)

It would be nice to win enough games to get into the playoffs and make some noise when we get there. The fact is, we still might not be ready for that until Porzingis takes that big step to superstardom. We see that now with the Greek Freak. What a player he is. He took over last night. They had the best player on the floor by a mile and it showed in the 4th quarter. We had Melo and Rose, who can both go on runs still, but are ultimately both complimentary players at this point in their careers. Still, i'm not sure exactly what it is, but i know our record is very good when all of Porzingis, Melo, and Rose play. It's not realistic for them to all play 82 games together, so the key is to continue to build the supporting cast so it is better prepared to sustain injuries to the big 3. For all of the surprises in that group, they still lack the talent to bring their games to the next level when one of the main components is missing.

People will be quick to jump the gun with Melo and Rose, saying they need to go, but if Porzingis is out, they are asked to do too much. They are not superstars anymore. not even all-stars based on production. Just great complimentary scorers. Porzingis will take the next step next year i think, just like Giannis did this year, his 4th year in the league (he's a year older than Porzingis.) In 5 years, there is a great chance these are the 2 best players in the east. But you don't just dump Melo and Rose, because Porzingis is still going to need help, and guys that can carry the offense for short stretches. Melo and Rose can still take that pressure off of him for a few more years. He still needs 2 guys that can average 15+ ppg for the forseeable future, and we have that.

Unless we have an good replacement, we can't just let Rose walk this year. Hopefully we can convince him to sign for only 3 years or so. But letting him go and leaving a huge hole would be a bad idea. We won't have real cap space to make a difference for a few years. Porzingis, Rose, and Melo will improve their chemistry with continuity. And Phil and his staff will have to continue to do a solid job finding good players in the draft and diamonds in the rough outside of the draft. Things don't look great right now, but we are still in the best spot we have been as an organization in a long time. It's a superstar's league, and we still have a future superstar yet to hit his real stride.

Is this state of the Knicks or State of Porzingus?

State of mind.......

holfresh wrote:Is this state of the Knicks or State of Porzingus?

Both i guess, since he is the Knicks.

Nalod wrote:State of mind.......

Ahhhhh..

State of the Knicks == we still need an identity

We need an obnoxious, ornery wing defender

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Is this state of the Knicks or State of Porzingus?

Both i guess, since he is the Knicks.

thats the way i read it. Obviously if KP is out significant time we are screwed. Truthfully we could use Another high pick especially at the guard position

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Is this state of the Knicks or State of Porzingus?

Both i guess, since he is the Knicks.

thats the way i read it. Obviously if KP is out significant time we are screwed. Truthfully we could use Another high pick especially at the guard position

We definitely could, so if this season goes down the drain, we can acquire that. But still, would rather have this team make progress. It's better for KP's development. That is why the traditional rebuild isn't the best option. We see this with Minnesota. No matter how much young talent you have, you still need a mix. KP will still need to rely on veteran help, and Melo and Rose will give him that for a few years. Phil will just have to get creative to get good young players.

Last year, like many before we did not own our own pick(s).
We have young guys, KP, Willy, Ronny, WarPlum and Kuz
This is different than years past where we were starphucked between a rock and the back of the truck.
Also, I not sure the pieces will fit, but I can't say it won't. Not enought time.
What bothers me is reports Jeff is not using the triangle and if we are to build a culture, it has to be first and foremost.
I was thinking the lack of the triangle was to ease into it over time. If we are not winning, then go to it. If we are winning, Im ok stretching it. Winning is fun!

Nalod wrote:Last year, like many before we did not own our own pick(s).
We have young guys, KP, Willy, Ronny, WarPlum and Kuz
This is different than years past where we were starphucked between a rock and the back of the truck.
Also, I not sure the pieces will fit, but I can't say it won't. Not enought time.
What bothers me is reports Jeff is not using the triangle and if we are to build a culture, it has to be first and foremost.
I was thinking the lack of the triangle was to ease into it over time. If we are not winning, then go to it. If we are winning, Im ok stretching it. Winning is fun!

They still use Triangle. It's not pure PnR like other teams. IMO they need more Spread PnR 3pt offense! When they did that yesterday they built up a lead and then they got stagnant and I don't think that fits these players best!!!

I'll take Rose and his sorry fragile body before ISO Melo who has tainted the waters. At 32-33 Melo is clearly on the decline and is shootinf ooorly, draining the team of will to play D and has limited trade value other than to a genuine contender. It's all about finding KP a compliment other than Rose and Melo just ain't it.

Paris907 wrote:I'll take Rose and his sorry fragile body before ISO Melo who has tainted the waters. At 32-33 Melo is clearly on the decline and is shootinf ooorly, draining the team of will to play D and has limited trade value other than to a genuine contender. It's all about finding KP a compliment other than Rose and Melo just ain't it.

Melo takes so much pressure off of KP. He has said it himself over and over. I think the key is him figuring out how to transition to a complimentary/role player. We need shooters and defenders around KP, and Melo, for all of his faults, is one of the best catch and shoot players in the game. But all of the other stuff he does hurts him. If he limits his offense to catch and shoot and low post attacking where there's a mismatch, he would be awesome. Defense is another story. It's a combination of effort, and not playing alongside versatile enough defenders. He's more capable of defending 4s, no question. Rose could be ok. We all know he has tunnel vision and doesn't move the PG enough, but his ability to break down defense and get to the basket at will really opens up things for KP.

Knixkik wrote:

Paris907 wrote:I'll take Rose and his sorry fragile body before ISO Melo who has tainted the waters. At 32-33 Melo is clearly on the decline and is shootinf ooorly, draining the team of will to play D and has limited trade value other than to a genuine contender. It's all about finding KP a compliment other than Rose and Melo just ain't it.

Melo takes so much pressure off of KP. He has said it himself over and over. I think the key is him figuring out how to transition to a complimentary/role player. We need shooters and defenders around KP, and Melo, for all of his faults, is one of the best catch and shoot players in the game. But all of the other stuff he does hurts him. If he limits his offense to catch and shoot and low post attacking where there's a mismatch, he would be awesome. Defense is another story. It's a combination of effort, and not playing alongside versatile enough defenders. He's more capable of defending 4s, no question. Rose could be ok. We all know he has tunnel vision and doesn't move the PG enough, but his ability to break down defense and get to the basket at will really opens up things for KP.

So help me to understand KP's role here...KP isn't good at defending 3,4, or 5s...So what is his responsibility in all this??..He gets a pass the next 3 years??..How does Melo become a complimentary player when KP has shown he isn't capable of carrying a team??..And Melo looks bad right now..He looks old..Teams have figure out to muscle KP, get into his chest, and keep him off balanced...Stretch 4s, who are capable to shooting threes, sit at the three point line, because KP won't come out..So what are we transitioning to??..So we need to build around that???

Until KP can get stronger, we need a player who can be the focal point of this team...Who knows if anyone will come here given our internal mess..Triangle, PnR etc.....Our bench is a mess..There aren't any defenders on our bench...Our bench can't play against the better teams in the NBA..State of the Knicks...

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Paris907 wrote:I'll take Rose and his sorry fragile body before ISO Melo who has tainted the waters. At 32-33 Melo is clearly on the decline and is shootinf ooorly, draining the team of will to play D and has limited trade value other than to a genuine contender. It's all about finding KP a compliment other than Rose and Melo just ain't it.

Melo takes so much pressure off of KP. He has said it himself over and over. I think the key is him figuring out how to transition to a complimentary/role player. We need shooters and defenders around KP, and Melo, for all of his faults, is one of the best catch and shoot players in the game. But all of the other stuff he does hurts him. If he limits his offense to catch and shoot and low post attacking where there's a mismatch, he would be awesome. Defense is another story. It's a combination of effort, and not playing alongside versatile enough defenders. He's more capable of defending 4s, no question. Rose could be ok. We all know he has tunnel vision and doesn't move the PG enough, but his ability to break down defense and get to the basket at will really opens up things for KP.

So help me to understand KP's role here...KP isn't good at defending 3,4, or 5s...So what is his responsibility in all this??..He gets a pass the next 3 years??..How does Melo become a complimentary player when KP has shown he isn't capable of carrying a team??..And Melo looks bad right now..He looks old..Teams have figure out to muscle KP, get into his chest, and keep him off balanced...Stretch 4s, who are capable to shooting threes, sit at the three point line, because KP won't come out..So what are we transitioning to??..So we need to build around that???

Until KP can get stronger, we need a player who can be the focal point of this team...Who knows if anyone will come here given our internal mess..Triangle, PnR etc.....Our bench is a mess..There aren't any defenders on our bench...Our bench can't play against the better teams in the NBA..State of the Knicks...

Porzingis still has a ways to go. My whole point was this team won't be ready until he is. Most would say his progress in year 2 has been better than expected. He's been one of the best rim protectors in the league and scores 20 ppg. But still has a long ways to go.

Is the record pretty good with all 3 of them? We're probably going to need to go at least .600 in Games with all 3 just to finish at .500.

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Paris907 wrote:I'll take Rose and his sorry fragile body before ISO Melo who has tainted the waters. At 32-33 Melo is clearly on the decline and is shootinf ooorly, draining the team of will to play D and has limited trade value other than to a genuine contender. It's all about finding KP a compliment other than Rose and Melo just ain't it.

Melo takes so much pressure off of KP. He has said it himself over and over. I think the key is him figuring out how to transition to a complimentary/role player. We need shooters and defenders around KP, and Melo, for all of his faults, is one of the best catch and shoot players in the game. But all of the other stuff he does hurts him. If he limits his offense to catch and shoot and low post attacking where there's a mismatch, he would be awesome. Defense is another story. It's a combination of effort, and not playing alongside versatile enough defenders. He's more capable of defending 4s, no question. Rose could be ok. We all know he has tunnel vision and doesn't move the PG enough, but his ability to break down defense and get to the basket at will really opens up things for KP.

So help me to understand KP's role here...KP isn't good at defending 3,4, or 5s...So what is his responsibility in all this??..He gets a pass the next 3 years??..How does Melo become a complimentary player when KP has shown he isn't capable of carrying a team??..And Melo looks bad right now..He looks old..Teams have figure out to muscle KP, get into his chest, and keep him off balanced...Stretch 4s, who are capable to shooting threes, sit at the three point line, because KP won't come out..So what are we transitioning to??..So we need to build around that???

Until KP can get stronger, we need a player who can be the focal point of this team...Who knows if anyone will come here given our internal mess..Triangle, PnR etc.....Our bench is a mess..There aren't any defenders on our bench...Our bench can't play against the better teams in the NBA..State of the Knicks...

Porzingis still has a ways to go. My whole point was this team won't be ready until he is. Most would say his progress in year 2 has been better than expected. He's been one of the best rim protectors in the league and scores 20 ppg. But still has a long ways to go.

You guys are so focused on KP that you don't see the rest of the team playing ball...I think Melo and Rose alone with the right pieces can compete in the East...Throw in KP and defense and there is hope...But we don't coach defense and our bench is weak...Our starters can't play 37/40 mins for the rest of the year against good teams...

Bonn1997 wrote:Is the record pretty good with all 3 of them? We're probably going to need to go at least .600 in Games with all 3 just to finish at .500.

I thought we retired your Mr. .470...

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Paris907 wrote:I'll take Rose and his sorry fragile body before ISO Melo who has tainted the waters. At 32-33 Melo is clearly on the decline and is shootinf ooorly, draining the team of will to play D and has limited trade value other than to a genuine contender. It's all about finding KP a compliment other than Rose and Melo just ain't it.

Melo takes so much pressure off of KP. He has said it himself over and over. I think the key is him figuring out how to transition to a complimentary/role player. We need shooters and defenders around KP, and Melo, for all of his faults, is one of the best catch and shoot players in the game. But all of the other stuff he does hurts him. If he limits his offense to catch and shoot and low post attacking where there's a mismatch, he would be awesome. Defense is another story. It's a combination of effort, and not playing alongside versatile enough defenders. He's more capable of defending 4s, no question. Rose could be ok. We all know he has tunnel vision and doesn't move the PG enough, but his ability to break down defense and get to the basket at will really opens up things for KP.

So help me to understand KP's role here...KP isn't good at defending 3,4, or 5s...So what is his responsibility in all this??..He gets a pass the next 3 years??..How does Melo become a complimentary player when KP has shown he isn't capable of carrying a team??..And Melo looks bad right now..He looks old..Teams have figure out to muscle KP, get into his chest, and keep him off balanced...Stretch 4s, who are capable to shooting threes, sit at the three point line, because KP won't come out..So what are we transitioning to??..So we need to build around that???

Until KP can get stronger, we need a player who can be the focal point of this team...Who knows if anyone will come here given our internal mess..Triangle, PnR etc.....Our bench is a mess..There aren't any defenders on our bench...Our bench can't play against the better teams in the NBA..State of the Knicks...

Porzingis still has a ways to go. My whole point was this team won't be ready until he is. Most would say his progress in year 2 has been better than expected. He's been one of the best rim protectors in the league and scores 20 ppg. But still has a long ways to go.

You guys are so focused on KP that you don't see the rest of the team playing ball...I think Melo and Rose alone with the right pieces can compete in the East...Throw in KP and defense and there is hope...But we don't coach defense and our bench is weak...Our starters can't play 37/40 mins for the rest of the year against good teams...

Correct, also talked about this in the beginning. Need to find the right supporting cast for this core.

"State of Independence"......Parts 1, 2 and 3. Spiritual High ft. Chrissie Hynde & Martin Luther King

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