Knicks · Nalod's own freak out thread..... (page 1)

Seems to be a few these days. Lots of trades of our recent free agents, hunger for Dleague saviors, regret for melo, Etc.

Stop reading if you don't like Nalod, my affinity for Phil, for reason and patience.

We all want to draft well, sign free agents, take gambles on trades,and be patient.
To some extent we are doing this. While its not a full blown tank job, its a departure of a past era and one asset that lingers is our Melo. Any scenario by which he gets moved is by mutual agreement and I don't think benching him or forcing him out would benefit the team.

If we have read that Melo is a bit of a mentor to KP is true, it would not serve out long term interests to play dirty. It also does not bode well for recruitment of free agents or ever we ask a veteran to take a cut in pay to perhaps play for a contender.

If and when we sit melo to develop a rookie then Melo might want to move on and get his minutes. As for him wanting to move to another city, well its hard to really know if that is what he wants. Sure, NBA guys all say the thing about "Winning be most important", but is that always the case? Max Melo in NYC has won. His price besides the work and preparation of being a darn good basketball player is also taking a lot of crap from NY media and all that comes with playing in NYC. But the multi gold Olympian, all time scoring olympian and NCAA champ, who is quickly moving up the all time scoring leaderboard is HOF bound, a Massive FORTUNE, a healthy son, and from all accounts a good marriage. Melo plays 35 or more nights a season on Broadway on a stage that seats 19,000 people.

Trust me, Melo has won.

Fans, well we want a superstar, a leader, a player that elevates all around him. We want Lebron. Or an ensemble cast like GSW.
I want that too.
GSW has done it thru the draft, with trades, and free agents. Its doable.
I have faith in Phil. To replace him won't bring in Pop, or Riley, or Lebron. Also, it will take time.
We saw a huge shift in thinking and Phil has rounded out a roster with rookies, free agents (Kuz counts), an incubated euro (Willy), a gambled former MVP in Rose, a player trying to redeem himself (Jennings) and a former stud in Noah.
About a third of the season gone and its been mixed.
most had us pegged at .500, so we are not that far off. It would be an improvement from the last two seasons.
Patience? draft picks, and movable assets are all in play.

Things are not desperate. They are not great and we crave change as a hope for improvement.

I still have faith in Phil. Its a bit of a starphuch, but he is doing things differently than anyone else has since little Jimmy took over. He is arrogant, stuck on his Triangle ways and when he doubts himself, he looks in the safety deposit box and counts more rings then Red Auerbach. Phil wants to succeed. Winners find a way. I'll go with him for now. I also want to be patient and see a culture develop. Live and die with the triangle if it cultivates a culture. "The Knick way"!!!! Great franchises have "a way" of making decisions. Great winners had a way. Phil's way breed Jordan into a god, Kobe into a killer, Shaq into a team guy (for a while).......He took great players and made them into something they were not before: Winners!
He is not always right, not always knowing, but whom else can deliver as a replacement besides Briggs and a few others who know better?

I'm fine keeping Melo if we're rebuilding, but it would be nice to add a high pick to the roster in this years draft- have them plus KP as the corner stones, and keep Melo to complement them while they develop (I'm fine keeping Noah as a character vet, and Lee). With the new CBA (and as with the old CBA), you're not really going to add a big player via free agency any more, so I wouldn't fret too much about maximum cap space.

Draftexpress seem to have 3 PGs as the top three picks, so it's looking like a nice draft to finally sort out that position (not sure what BRIGGS thinks)

My worry is that we miss the playoffs but only by a few games and so end up with a mid first rounder and non playoffs. If you look at the standings, I've never seen so many teams with bad records and we're stuck roughly in the middle (but outside the playoffs) which is the worst spot to be!

+1
Doesn't seem too "freak out" of a thread to me. I was expecting the Nalod to be offering free tickets to Hornets or the Barclay Center...

Fans, we seem to want something shiny on the other side of whatever fence of the year there is. Cycling from the Denver model, to the Indiana model to the PopSpurs model to the GSW model, to the LeQFlavor of the month. NYC fans in particular are so WTF have you done for me lately, that it gets boring to read the same series of trade everyone, melohate, PhilHate, tank NOW! threads over and over again.

I'm old enough to remember clearly the beauty of being able to screech like a beeyatch in full bore PMS about the clowning regime of Scott Layden. Phil is handling things light years ahead of signing the likes of KVH and Shandon AnderEisleySpoons. We can be down 16 in the first quarter, and with this mix of yoots and deranged, overpaid come back stories, anything can happen. And sometimes does.

I'd rather be waiting for this squad's "Krazy Eyes Goes Nuts in Utah" moment that turns this season around.

Beats the sheehit out of watching bipolar BRIGGS going "BANG" after predicting wins and then starting 100 "WE EAT SHEEHIT" threads...

smackeddog wrote:I'm fine keeping Melo if we're rebuilding, but it would be nice to add a high pick to the roster in this years draft- have them plus KP as the corner stones, and keep Melo to complement them while they develop (I'm fine keeping Noah as a character vet, and Lee). With the new CBA (and as with the old CBA), you're not really going to add a big player via free agency any more, so I wouldn't fret too much about maximum cap space.

Draftexpress seem to have 3 PGs as the top three picks, so it's looking like a nice draft to finally sort out that position (not sure what BRIGGS thinks)

My worry is that we miss the playoffs but only by a few games and so end up with a mid first rounder and non playoffs. If you look at the standings, I've never seen so many teams with bad records and we're stuck roughly in the middle (but outside the playoffs) which is the worst spot to be!

Were not getting any of those PG's. The best bet we had to get a good PG was to go in and get Malcolm Brogdon last year. Good luck trying to fin a 6-5 215 pd PG in the next 3 years. There will be some good G's we can get in rd #2 and we have two picks.

I like a player for us in the 12-15 range thats more of a Marcus Camby with more offensive skill. I know that there are some who might say we have enough big men--but you draft a player that has teh best talent with the most upside that has certain parameters to their games regardless of position.

What we tried to get with Noah was a guy who could protect the rim and help out on the perimter--problem is his reaction time has slowed and hes a different player. The first and best way to help a teams defense is to find a guy who can protect the rim and be able to help on shooters with length and athleticism. In this league you need speed--you need to be able to get up and down. I love this guy Justin Patton--hes already a really good defender but is just touching the surface of what he can do offensively. He s got ball handling skills hes got touch footwork explosion length--hes going to be a star. Hes a building block and thats what I want. Just listen to him talk end of video.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD8yXPGR7mI#t=223.281[/YouTube]

jrodmc wrote:+1
Doesn't seem too "freak out" of a thread to me. I was expecting the Nalod to be offering free tickets to Hornets or the Barclay Center...

Fans, we seem to want something shiny on the other side of whatever fence of the year there is. Cycling from the Denver model, to the Indiana model to the PopSpurs model to the GSW model, to the LeQFlavor of the month. NYC fans in particular are so WTF have you done for me lately, that it gets boring to read the same series of trade everyone, melohate, PhilHate, tank NOW! threads over and over again.

I'm old enough to remember clearly the beauty of being able to screech like a beeyatch in full bore PMS about the clowning regime of Scott Layden. Phil is handling things light years ahead of signing the likes of KVH and Shandon AnderEisleySpoons. We can be down 16 in the first quarter, and with this mix of yoots and deranged, overpaid come back stories, anything can happen. And sometimes does.

I'd rather be waiting for this squad's "Krazy Eyes Goes Nuts in Utah" moment that turns this season around.

Beats the sheehit out of watching bipolar BRIGGS going "BANG" after predicting wins and then starting 100 "WE EAT SHEEHIT" threads...

Title was an attention getter. I wrote this in response to another thread and felt like I DESERVED more attention and being a voice of reason rarely does it.

So easy to go off on who we should trade thinking our castoffs would be so valued to solve our problems.
When I read we should get Derrick Williams, who is third string in Miami, an awful team, well we know the grass is always greener.

Im surprised we have not read more "Melo should have waited and came to knicks as free agent" so we could have had multiple chips by now!

This team is so not built to tank. A few weeks ago were basking in the delight of ATL's demise while we surged ahead to tie for the 4th seed. Now we are talking tank.

jrodmc wrote:+1
Doesn't seem too "freak out" of a thread to me. I was expecting the Nalod to be offering free tickets to Hornets or the Barclay Center...

Fans, we seem to want something shiny on the other side of whatever fence of the year there is. Cycling from the Denver model, to the Indiana model to the PopSpurs model to the GSW model, to the LeQFlavor of the month. NYC fans in particular are so WTF have you done for me lately, that it gets boring to read the same series of trade everyone, melohate, PhilHate, tank NOW! threads over and over again.

I'm old enough to remember clearly the beauty of being able to screech like a beeyatch in full bore PMS about the clowning regime of Scott Layden. Phil is handling things light years ahead of signing the likes of KVH and Shandon AnderEisleySpoons. We can be down 16 in the first quarter, and with this mix of yoots and deranged, overpaid come back stories, anything can happen. And sometimes does.

I'd rather be waiting for this squad's "Krazy Eyes Goes Nuts in Utah" moment that turns this season around.

Beats the sheehit out of watching bipolar BRIGGS going "BANG" after predicting wins and then starting 100 "WE EAT SHEEHIT" threads...

Kinda agree but here is what is bothering me about Phil. It's this whole triangle thing he seems to refuse to let go of. We can't sign certain players because supposedly they don't fit the triangle. Can't consider certain coaches because they aren't triangle coaches. Apparently he is unhappy the current coach doesn't run more triangle. Triangle this, triangle that. Phil needs to hire the best available coach, let him run HIS system and get the players HE needs for HIS system. I think Hornacek having to balance doing things his way and trying to pacify the triangle has probably contributed to our woes as much as our poor defense.

I think we have sufficient talent on the roster to win and be a playoff team, but something is off. Jackson needs to find a way to acquire that missing piece, both talent-wise and chemistry-wise.

I also don't think we can just give Hornacek a pass either. The players are getting most of the flack for our record, does he need to shoulder some of the blame as well?

Welpee wrote:

jrodmc wrote:+1
Doesn't seem too "freak out" of a thread to me. I was expecting the Nalod to be offering free tickets to Hornets or the Barclay Center...

Fans, we seem to want something shiny on the other side of whatever fence of the year there is. Cycling from the Denver model, to the Indiana model to the PopSpurs model to the GSW model, to the LeQFlavor of the month. NYC fans in particular are so WTF have you done for me lately, that it gets boring to read the same series of trade everyone, melohate, PhilHate, tank NOW! threads over and over again.

I'm old enough to remember clearly the beauty of being able to screech like a beeyatch in full bore PMS about the clowning regime of Scott Layden. Phil is handling things light years ahead of signing the likes of KVH and Shandon AnderEisleySpoons. We can be down 16 in the first quarter, and with this mix of yoots and deranged, overpaid come back stories, anything can happen. And sometimes does.

I'd rather be waiting for this squad's "Krazy Eyes Goes Nuts in Utah" moment that turns this season around.

Beats the sheehit out of watching bipolar BRIGGS going "BANG" after predicting wins and then starting 100 "WE EAT SHEEHIT" threads...

Kinda agree but here is what is bothering me about Phil. It's this whole triangle thing he seems to refuse to let go of. We can't sign certain players because supposedly they don't fit the triangle. Can't consider certain coaches because they aren't triangle coaches. Apparently he is unhappy the current coach doesn't run more triangle. Triangle this, triangle that. Phil needs to hire the best available coach, let him run HIS system and get the players HE needs for HIS system. I think Hornacek having to balance doing things his way and trying to pacify the triangle has probably contributed to our woes as much as our poor defense.

I think we have sufficient talent on the roster to win and be a playoff team, but something is off. Jackson needs to find a way to acquire that missing piece, both talent-wise and chemistry-wise.

I also don't think we can just give Hornacek a pass either. The players are getting most of the flack for our record, does he need to shoulder some of the blame as well?

I agree. I keep wondering about the horrible defense. Is that Hornacek or Rambis? Also, I didn't hear it but I remember reading that Melo said something about no one liking the defensive schemes but that they had to play them. I could be wrong about this but fixing the defense would fix a lot. I also wonder, if Rambis is truly coaching the defense has he been tuned out? The reaction of the players to Kurt last year was not good. He seemed like a lock to be coach again this year. I have always wondered if Phil saw player reactions to Kurt in their triangle workshop and realized that he wasn't going to be able succesful coaching the team.

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'm fine keeping Melo if we're rebuilding, but it would be nice to add a high pick to the roster in this years draft- have them plus KP as the corner stones, and keep Melo to complement them while they develop (I'm fine keeping Noah as a character vet, and Lee). With the new CBA (and as with the old CBA), you're not really going to add a big player via free agency any more, so I wouldn't fret too much about maximum cap space.

Draftexpress seem to have 3 PGs as the top three picks, so it's looking like a nice draft to finally sort out that position (not sure what BRIGGS thinks)

My worry is that we miss the playoffs but only by a few games and so end up with a mid first rounder and non playoffs. If you look at the standings, I've never seen so many teams with bad records and we're stuck roughly in the middle (but outside the playoffs) which is the worst spot to be!

Were not getting any of those PG's. The best bet we had to get a good PG was to go in and get Malcolm Brogdon last year. Good luck trying to fin a 6-5 215 pd PG in the next 3 years. There will be some good G's we can get in rd #2 and we have two picks.

I like a player for us in the 12-15 range thats more of a Marcus Camby with more offensive skill. I know that there are some who might say we have enough big men--but you draft a player that has teh best talent with the most upside that has certain parameters to their games regardless of position.

What we tried to get with Noah was a guy who could protect the rim and help out on the perimter--problem is his reaction time has slowed and hes a different player. The first and best way to help a teams defense is to find a guy who can protect the rim and be able to help on shooters with length and athleticism. In this league you need speed--you need to be able to get up and down. I love this guy Justin Patton--hes already a really good defender but is just touching the surface of what he can do offensively. He s got ball handling skills hes got touch footwork explosion length--hes going to be a star. Hes a building block and thats what I want. Just listen to him talk end of video.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD8yXPGR7mI#t=223.281[/YouTube]

I know there's pretty much no chance we could land them (though you never know how far we could fall with injuries), but what do you think of Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball and Dennis Smith? Do they deserve their top 3 rankings? Franchise corner stones?

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'm fine keeping Melo if we're rebuilding, but it would be nice to add a high pick to the roster in this years draft- have them plus KP as the corner stones, and keep Melo to complement them while they develop (I'm fine keeping Noah as a character vet, and Lee). With the new CBA (and as with the old CBA), you're not really going to add a big player via free agency any more, so I wouldn't fret too much about maximum cap space.

Draftexpress seem to have 3 PGs as the top three picks, so it's looking like a nice draft to finally sort out that position (not sure what BRIGGS thinks)

My worry is that we miss the playoffs but only by a few games and so end up with a mid first rounder and non playoffs. If you look at the standings, I've never seen so many teams with bad records and we're stuck roughly in the middle (but outside the playoffs) which is the worst spot to be!

Were not getting any of those PG's. The best bet we had to get a good PG was to go in and get Malcolm Brogdon last year. Good luck trying to fin a 6-5 215 pd PG in the next 3 years. There will be some good G's we can get in rd #2 and we have two picks.

I like a player for us in the 12-15 range thats more of a Marcus Camby with more offensive skill. I know that there are some who might say we have enough big men--but you draft a player that has teh best talent with the most upside that has certain parameters to their games regardless of position.

What we tried to get with Noah was a guy who could protect the rim and help out on the perimter--problem is his reaction time has slowed and hes a different player. The first and best way to help a teams defense is to find a guy who can protect the rim and be able to help on shooters with length and athleticism. In this league you need speed--you need to be able to get up and down. I love this guy Justin Patton--hes already a really good defender but is just touching the surface of what he can do offensively. He s got ball handling skills hes got touch footwork explosion length--hes going to be a star. Hes a building block and thats what I want. Just listen to him talk end of video.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD8yXPGR7mI#t=223.281[/YouTube]

I know there's pretty much no chance we could land them (though you never know how far we could fall with injuries), but what do you think of Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball and Dennis Smith? Do they deserve their top 3 rankings? Franchise corner stones?

Three guys at the top Fultz Ball Tatum. I also like Monk but hes a scorer. After that Id love to have Patton at 12-13 etc.. because I think hes a top 5 pick

If I couldnt get him Id probably draft Josh Hart but as a PG.

Usually its sometime in February. But its getting to be about that time.........

Nalod wrote:Usually its sometime in February. But its getting to be about that time.........

Time to blow it up? Tank time??

Nalod wrote:

Nalod wrote:Usually its sometime in February. But its getting to be about that time.........

Time to blow it up? Tank time??

Hell yes!

I normally don't prescribe to this but there is way too much talent on this team for it to be as dysfunctional as it is.

For the record, I think on paper the derrick rose trade was a good one.
While many of you are far better at picking what is wrong with this team I am still baffled by the last 10 games and the sudden decline.

Its likely a combination of:

1. Melo over confidence. The man has talent, can play defense, can pass, rebound and score!!!! But not all at once. IF what I read from Charley Rose is correct, there might have been a time for hope, but the man does not have the legs to do it now.

2. No commitment to the Triangle. The longer they fight it, the longer it will take. If Hornacek and company wanted to "Win now" over "Win later, and forever", then we are not doing this right. This season was about building a culture. If Rose's non participation in training camp made this so, then thats a shame.

3. Rose don't like the triangle. I would have hoped this would have been sorted out at the time the trade was done. Maybe he wants to like it, but it does take some sacrifice and that is not about to happen in a contract year.

4. Everything that need to be written about Noah has already been written.

5. Bench is uneven. Lance is good, lance is bad. Kuz is progressing, Kuz is regressing. KOQ has a great beard and should be traded when he plays better, now he is our MVP.

6. When Jennings was playing well, the team's 2nd unit won games!!!

Thats a pretty broad stroke. Perhaps Nalod has to fix it with some mystical trade?

If Melo wants to leave and amicable to a trade then so be it. His time has come and gone. Maybe Phil has to be the bad guy here.
Simple fact is we just don't know where melo would find an attractive locale to go play in and an asset in return that helps the team.

Knicks are entertainment. Im not finding the current state of team to be a good choice for me.

Oh, before some of you want Phil gone remember his replacement might not be as good. Phil at the moment might not be the solution, but he is not the problem. At lease if your trending down, its good to have your own pick.

Remember, this guy is on the Payroll for MSG.

Nalod wrote:I normally don't prescribe to this but there is way too much talent on this team for it to be as dysfunctional as it is.

For the record, I think on paper the derrick rose trade was a good one.
While many of you are far better at picking what is wrong with this team I am still baffled by the last 10 games and the sudden decline.

Its likely a combination of:

1. Melo over confidence. The man has talent, can play defense, can pass, rebound and score!!!! But not all at once. IF what I read from Charley Rose is correct, there might have been a time for hope, but the man does not have the legs to do it now.

2. No commitment to the Triangle. The longer they fight it, the longer it will take. If Hornacek and company wanted to "Win now" over "Win later, and forever", then we are not doing this right. This season was about building a culture. If Rose's non participation in training camp made this so, then thats a shame.

3. Rose don't like the triangle. I would have hoped this would have been sorted out at the time the trade was done. Maybe he wants to like it, but it does take some sacrifice and that is not about to happen in a contract year.

4. Everything that need to be written about Noah has already been written.

5. Bench is uneven. Lance is good, lance is bad. Kuz is progressing, Kuz is regressing. KOQ has a great beard and should be traded when he plays better, now he is our MVP.

6. When Jennings was playing well, the team's 2nd unit won games!!!

Thats a pretty broad stroke. Perhaps Nalod has to fix it with some mystical trade?

If Melo wants to leave and amicable to a trade then so be it. His time has come and gone. Maybe Phil has to be the bad guy here.
Simple fact is we just don't know where melo would find an attractive locale to go play in and an asset in return that helps the team.

Knicks are entertainment. Im not finding the current state of team to be a good choice for me.

Oh, before some of you want Phil gone remember his replacement might not be as good. Phil at the moment might not be the solution, but he is not the problem. At lease if your trending down, its good to have your own pick.

Remember, this guy is on the Payroll for MSG.

When does Phil get held to account?

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:I normally don't prescribe to this but there is way too much talent on this team for it to be as dysfunctional as it is.

For the record, I think on paper the derrick rose trade was a good one.
While many of you are far better at picking what is wrong with this team I am still baffled by the last 10 games and the sudden decline.

Its likely a combination of:

1. Melo over confidence. The man has talent, can play defense, can pass, rebound and score!!!! But not all at once. IF what I read from Charley Rose is correct, there might have been a time for hope, but the man does not have the legs to do it now.

2. No commitment to the Triangle. The longer they fight it, the longer it will take. If Hornacek and company wanted to "Win now" over "Win later, and forever", then we are not doing this right. This season was about building a culture. If Rose's non participation in training camp made this so, then thats a shame.

3. Rose don't like the triangle. I would have hoped this would have been sorted out at the time the trade was done. Maybe he wants to like it, but it does take some sacrifice and that is not about to happen in a contract year.

4. Everything that need to be written about Noah has already been written.

5. Bench is uneven. Lance is good, lance is bad. Kuz is progressing, Kuz is regressing. KOQ has a great beard and should be traded when he plays better, now he is our MVP.

6. When Jennings was playing well, the team's 2nd unit won games!!!

Thats a pretty broad stroke. Perhaps Nalod has to fix it with some mystical trade?

If Melo wants to leave and amicable to a trade then so be it. His time has come and gone. Maybe Phil has to be the bad guy here.
Simple fact is we just don't know where melo would find an attractive locale to go play in and an asset in return that helps the team.

Knicks are entertainment. Im not finding the current state of team to be a good choice for me.

Oh, before some of you want Phil gone remember his replacement might not be as good. Phil at the moment might not be the solution, but he is not the problem. At lease if your trending down, its good to have your own pick.

Remember, this guy is on the Payroll for MSG.

When does Phil get held to account?

I think the record speaks for itself. The question is not of blame but even if you moved forward then what is that plan? Realizing that losing under phil could be done cheaper but one has to be happy we have not leveraged the future by trading no. 1 picks. That itself is worth the money.

Melo might be the only thing Dolan required of Phil and to some degree he is culpable as well because its his name as president. Im redundant about "blame" and the use of it but the process of changing the franchise is frustrating.
Phil made a good choice about hiring Kerr, but the fact is his back might have moved him away from the team. Dude had spinal fluid leaking. Fish had hormonal overload leaking. In my mind Kerr would have folded. After all, a man can only take but so much pain!!!

I think Hornacek is a solid coach but Phil over reached with Rose given his personality. Rose is talented but if he is a head case, it won't work.

As a fan, I will root for Phil to succeed and would not call for his head. I rooted for all our GM's except Isiah was not a good hire from day one. That I objected to. I can even be construed as a Layden apologist because I can reconstruct the timeline without blood thirst. Layden was not for the Marbury trade and had just one more season to go where he had his picks back, and cap space. All that Isiah used as leverage to build that awful team.

But you wanted my opinion about Phil and My view is simply that Im a fan, and as long as he is here I either have to accept that he believes in what he is doing or wants the money. He has succeeded at level he has worked in so i have to think a great man does great things but sometimes there are battles lost.

Im staying there for now. As for him answering to fans? I get the anger.

Well you know my thoughts over the years about Phil..I thought set himself up to fail when he insisted on running the triangle..Not because it's not a good system but I think the coaches need to form their own bond with the players, run their own system, and ask players to be accountable for 82 games...I didn't see that happening when it's another man's system..I thought Phil was undermining his coaches..

But that said, Melo has the bulls-eyes on him which works for Phil and Dolan at the moment..They don't have to be in the line of fire...But when he is gone, fans will line up their ire to others...Well will see..