Knicks · Fastest way to get this team better 5 step plan (page 2)

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

No way is Phil trading picks. Also Miami wants a lot more for Dragic than Rose. There is a big market out there for Dragic. Recently it was reported that teams thought Miami was looking for too much for Dragic. Probably looking for a high#1 or 2 #1 picks. This is Riley we are talking about. When has he ever lost in a trade?

Nalod wrote:I think for most of us there would be 12 steps..........

LOL

BigRedDog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

No way is Phil trading picks. Also Miami wants a lot more for Dragic than Rose. There is a big market out there for Dragic. Recently it was reported that teams thought Miami was looking for too much for Dragic. Probably looking for a high#1 or 2 #1 picks. This is Riley we are talking about. When has he ever lost in a trade?

I agree. Phil will not deviate from his plan by trading any worthwhile picks. I could see using a second-rounder to make something happen but that's about it. I think they will trade for a player who is a handful on the court - that may be a vet or a kid stuck on someone's bench.

I don't see a Dragic trade because I do think Miami will probably hold out for more than we can offer. Nor am I convinced Dragic is a silver-bullet acquisition.

I do not think Rose will be returning next year unless its for a reasonable contract. I could imagine a Clevelend deal of some kind to move Rose there. Lebron has had great luck with x-knicks.

fwk00 wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

No way is Phil trading picks. Also Miami wants a lot more for Dragic than Rose. There is a big market out there for Dragic. Recently it was reported that teams thought Miami was looking for too much for Dragic. Probably looking for a high#1 or 2 #1 picks. This is Riley we are talking about. When has he ever lost in a trade?

I agree. Phil will not deviate from his plan by trading any worthwhile picks. I could see using a second-rounder to make something happen but that's about it. I think they will trade for a player who is a handful on the court - that may be a vet or a kid stuck on someone's bench.

I don't see a Dragic trade because I do think Miami will probably hold out for more than we can offer. Nor am I convinced Dragic is a silver-bullet acquisition.

I do not think Rose will be returning next year unless its for a reasonable contract. I could imagine a Clevelend deal of some kind to move Rose there. Lebron has had great luck with x-knicks.

Phil definitely isn't trading 1st round picks. Only 2nd rounders in a deal like acquiring Willy. For all the criticism of him, he has been effective playing both sides of this thing, that is, trying to win now without sacrificing the future. He has played nice with Melo and given him big name vets to play with, and added our best young talent in many of our lifetimes. The Rose deal was a no-gamble type deal. It's unlikely to work out, but thats ok. The alternative was keeping Lopez on a reasonable deal, and the only real downside seems to be the domino effect of signing Noah for a big contract. In an alternate world, if we never made that trade, we probably just sign Jennings and Lee for more money and have Calderon and Grant backing up Jennings. Considering how good Lopez deal was, maybe that was a better option, but it wasn't a huge gamble. More than likely this offseason, we just resign Jennings on a fair deal and use him as a stopgap until we find another PG, or develop one we have drafted. For all of Jennings faults, he isn't a bad stopgap with his ability to create plays. And i think Melo stays. He has been committed thru worse. At the very least, i expect him back next year. Once he has an option on his contract, it might be a different story.

Knixkik wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

No way is Phil trading picks. Also Miami wants a lot more for Dragic than Rose. There is a big market out there for Dragic. Recently it was reported that teams thought Miami was looking for too much for Dragic. Probably looking for a high#1 or 2 #1 picks. This is Riley we are talking about. When has he ever lost in a trade?

I agree. Phil will not deviate from his plan by trading any worthwhile picks. I could see using a second-rounder to make something happen but that's about it. I think they will trade for a player who is a handful on the court - that may be a vet or a kid stuck on someone's bench.

I don't see a Dragic trade because I do think Miami will probably hold out for more than we can offer. Nor am I convinced Dragic is a silver-bullet acquisition.

I do not think Rose will be returning next year unless its for a reasonable contract. I could imagine a Clevelend deal of some kind to move Rose there. Lebron has had great luck with x-knicks.

Phil definitely isn't trading 1st round picks. Only 2nd rounders in a deal like acquiring Willy. For all the criticism of him, he has been effective playing both sides of this thing, that is, trying to win now without sacrificing the future. He has played nice with Melo and given him big name vets to play with, and added our best young talent in many of our lifetimes. The Rose deal was a no-gamble type deal. It's unlikely to work out, but thats ok. The alternative was keeping Lopez on a reasonable deal, and the only real downside seems to be the domino effect of signing Noah for a big contract. In an alternate world, if we never made that trade, we probably just sign Jennings and Lee for more money and have Calderon and Grant backing up Jennings. Considering how good Lopez deal was, maybe that was a better option, but it wasn't a huge gamble. More than likely this offseason, we just resign Jennings on a fair deal and use him as a stopgap until we find another PG, or develop one we have drafted. For all of Jennings faults, he isn't a bad stopgap with his ability to create plays. And i think Melo stays. He has been committed thru worse. At the very least, i expect him back next year. Once he has an option on his contract, it might be a different story.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

No way is Phil trading picks. Also Miami wants a lot more for Dragic than Rose. There is a big market out there for Dragic. Recently it was reported that teams thought Miami was looking for too much for Dragic. Probably looking for a high#1 or 2 #1 picks. This is Riley we are talking about. When has he ever lost in a trade?

I agree. Phil will not deviate from his plan by trading any worthwhile picks. I could see using a second-rounder to make something happen but that's about it. I think they will trade for a player who is a handful on the court - that may be a vet or a kid stuck on someone's bench.

I don't see a Dragic trade because I do think Miami will probably hold out for more than we can offer. Nor am I convinced Dragic is a silver-bullet acquisition.

I do not think Rose will be returning next year unless its for a reasonable contract. I could imagine a Clevelend deal of some kind to move Rose there. Lebron has had great luck with x-knicks.

Phil definitely isn't trading 1st round picks. Only 2nd rounders in a deal like acquiring Willy. For all the criticism of him, he has been effective playing both sides of this thing, that is, trying to win now without sacrificing the future. He has played nice with Melo and given him big name vets to play with, and added our best young talent in many of our lifetimes. The Rose deal was a no-gamble type deal. It's unlikely to work out, but thats ok. The alternative was keeping Lopez on a reasonable deal, and the only real downside seems to be the domino effect of signing Noah for a big contract. In an alternate world, if we never made that trade, we probably just sign Jennings and Lee for more money and have Calderon and Grant backing up Jennings. Considering how good Lopez deal was, maybe that was a better option, but it wasn't a huge gamble. More than likely this offseason, we just resign Jennings on a fair deal and use him as a stopgap until we find another PG, or develop one we have drafted. For all of Jennings faults, he isn't a bad stopgap with his ability to create plays. And i think Melo stays. He has been committed thru worse. At the very least, i expect him back next year. Once he has an option on his contract, it might be a different story.

I agree with most of this but I don't think the Knicks get Lee without the Noah signing. I am not sure about Jennings but I think he would have jumped at the chance to start in NY.

Yeah its impossible to tell. I don't think they would have got Lee for 12 mil a year. But i think they would have for 15 mil or so per year. Noah convinced him to come for less money. Wouldn't have needed that if the Rose trade doesn't happen. Cap space gets split between Lee and Jennings moreless, and we all are happy that our backcourt gets significantly upgraded from Calderon and Afflalo. Jennings wants to be here really bad. You can just tell. It kills him when he's not helping this team win. At least we got Holiday out of the deal, who should be a keeper. But i really think we roll with Jennings and Lee in the backcourt next year. I don't see any other elite guard coming here, or a rookie PG starting right away.

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:No offense, but this isn't really a plan. It's more of an outline of what you want to do. A plan would include how to go about doing this.

And the key thing is how much you pay for each player (in dollars and in assets given up in trades). If you overpay for #1, 2, and 3, then you have no money left and 2 glaring holes. There isn't one golden list of needs for teams anyway. The best teams simply make every penny they spend go further than the rest of the teams do.

like curry making nothing

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:how about we flip the roster again and again, and again, and again, and again...smdh

The roster flip will happen again. It's a given. I'm pretty sure Melo is going to remove the NTC and allow Phil to make the move. As for Rose. Phil is going to move him for a pick and players. The Knicks are going into tank mode and I'm totally fine with it.

You think Phil can move Rose for a pick and players? Also, I don't see Melo waiving his ntc and even if he did a trade would be very difficult. If the Knicks make moves I see them trading the young guys or picks for vets. I don't know if that is smart at this point. The one move that makes sense to me and seems like it might be possible is Rose to Miami for Dragic and McRoberts. I think Phil might have to include a second round pick to get that done but in the past Miami has wanted to get out from Dragic's deal.

Dragic and Dwilliams

I don't see Riley ever doing a deal with us. Think a trade to the sixers (rose for ok4 or Noel) is the only shot- helps them sell tickets, he'd get his big contract and he can be a scoring Pg with what's his name (the player they picked in the last draft who broke his foot) doing the passing and play making.

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

VCoug wrote:No offense, but this isn't really a plan. It's more of an outline of what you want to do. A plan would include how to go about doing this.

And the key thing is how much you pay for each player (in dollars and in assets given up in trades). If you overpay for #1, 2, and 3, then you have no money left and 2 glaring holes. There isn't one golden list of needs for teams anyway. The best teams simply make every penny they spend go further than the rest of the teams do.

like curry making nothing

Curry got long term security at a time his ankles were problematic and his career was in jeopardy. His surgery was taking longer to recover from. GSW was patient. I can only speculate what NY media would incite knicks to do if he played here. Not they they listen to the media, or from fans, but we do have a history of not being patient.

As briggs has stated Rose has some unusual talents and his staying beyond this season was a question based on:

1. Health
2. Basketball
3. Projections of numbers 1 and 2.
Add a 4th. Mental condition.

Maybe this becomes a more public issue because he bolted. I think its something that happens more than we'd like to admit. Any of you guys ever melt from exhaustion and pressure? Any of you guys go to Medical school and not sleep for a few years? Or Law school? Or watch a financial meltdown and have to perform and assure clients the world will be ok? Or run your own business? Deal with a marital problem? A teenager in trouble? A child with cancer? Or deal with cancer yourself? Or a spouse? or have about 20 people financially responsible for, either directly or as their employer and fight for a business to keep its doors open? Im not sure what roses problems are but fans don't really consider these guys as being normal. sure he was a former MVP at 22 and thought that his life would be nothing but 100's of millions coming his way, but along the way his legs gave out, and the pressure gets to him. He had a fully public humiliation event to start the season and put his image on the line. He won, but he also lost. Any of you ever been in such a situation you'd understand. I have. I won, but it took a chunk out of me. Rose won, but it takes a piece from you and time to put it back in. Did his benching cause him to spiral a bit? I can guess. Some guys take it out on a spouse/partner, fight, punch a teammate in practice, choke a coach, get drunk and shoot a limo driver, put on a wedding dress, tell an intern to get in the truck, etc etc.

Rose missed a game, publicly addressed it, and plays basket ball. The rest will unfold. He either gets traded to an environment that is more supportive to his career choice or plays the year out and makes his choice. Knicks get to decide as well.

BRIGGS wrote:#1 Find a post player who can PROTECT the RIM but can also help get out on shooters yet still be a part of the offense
#2 Find a PG similar to what we see in Malcolm brgodon with Milwaukee--good size skills smart. I dont think we will be low enough to get one of these franchise PGs but there are others that make sense.
#3 Find 2-3 3 point shooters--thats why I wanted either Seth Curry or Forbes--a specialty player who can help spread the floor and be consistent hitting 3's
#4 A shooting guard who has the ability to score 15-17 a game
#5 An athletic wing capable of defending anyone's best player and doing a good job

Those are the 5 steps

It's a good plan, I also think we need to start giving any prospective player an IQ test (or equivalent). You can't win in this league with dumb players. Give me a team of smart players that play together, share the ball, help each other on defense. Not one dimensional athletic playters one injury away from being washed up.

knickstorrents wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:#1 Find a post player who can PROTECT the RIM but can also help get out on shooters yet still be a part of the offense
#2 Find a PG similar to what we see in Malcolm brgodon with Milwaukee--good size skills smart. I dont think we will be low enough to get one of these franchise PGs but there are others that make sense.
#3 Find 2-3 3 point shooters--thats why I wanted either Seth Curry or Forbes--a specialty player who can help spread the floor and be consistent hitting 3's
#4 A shooting guard who has the ability to score 15-17 a game
#5 An athletic wing capable of defending anyone's best player and doing a good job

Those are the 5 steps

It's a good plan, I also think we need to start giving any prospective player an IQ test (or equivalent). You can't win in this league with dumb players. Give me a team of smart players that play together, share the ball, help each other on defense. Not one dimensional athletic playters one injury away from being washed up.

I really like the San Antonio model. They've been able to retire both David Robinson and Tim Duncan and not miss a beat. I understand what they are doing and I would like to do that here as well . I think phil made big big mistake paying Noah 17 mm he cannot defend the way you need to. Either can willy g but willy is fine as a back up 4-5 we need a c who can help anchor the defense-- start from there and move through.

BRIGGS wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:#1 Find a post player who can PROTECT the RIM but can also help get out on shooters yet still be a part of the offense
#2 Find a PG similar to what we see in Malcolm brgodon with Milwaukee--good size skills smart. I dont think we will be low enough to get one of these franchise PGs but there are others that make sense.
#3 Find 2-3 3 point shooters--thats why I wanted either Seth Curry or Forbes--a specialty player who can help spread the floor and be consistent hitting 3's
#4 A shooting guard who has the ability to score 15-17 a game
#5 An athletic wing capable of defending anyone's best player and doing a good job

Those are the 5 steps

It's a good plan, I also think we need to start giving any prospective player an IQ test (or equivalent). You can't win in this league with dumb players. Give me a team of smart players that play together, share the ball, help each other on defense. Not one dimensional athletic playters one injury away from being washed up.

I really like the San Antonio model. They've been able to retire both David Robinson and Tim Duncan and not miss a beat. I understand what they are doing and I would like to do that here as well . I think phil made big big mistake paying Noah 17 mm he cannot defend the way you need to. Either can willy g but willy is fine as a back up 4-5 we need a c who can help anchor the defense-- start from there and move through.

Agreed. And they are the best 3-point shooting team in the league.

OG Anunoby could be our poor man's Kawhi.

Ian Clark is an underrated free agent signing this summer. He's only 25 years old, can shoot, and run an offense in a pinch. No way GS can keep him. A nice combo guard and his age makes him a long-term fit. Need to find under the radar pickups. He's my top choice in that regard. I offer him a nice contract.