Knicks · Where is Phil? He trashed Lebron for staying an extra night in Cleveland... now his own guy abandons the team and... nothing? (page 1)

Phil went out of his way to blast Lebron James, a player not on his team, for asking the Heat to stay over in Cleveland one night years ago. Lebron did not miss a game and asked his team about his plans. Phil acted like it was bad for the team James even asked such a thing.

When LeBron was playing with the Heat, they went to Cleveland, and he wanted to spend the night. They don't do overnights. Teams just don't. So now [coach Erik] Spoelstra has to text Riley and say, 'What do I do in this situation?' And Pat, who has iron-fist rules, answers, 'You are on the plane. You are with this team.' You can't hold up the whole team because you and your mom and your posse want to spend an extra night in Cleveland.

"I always thought Pat had this really nice vibe with his guys. But something happened there where it broke down. I do know LeBron likes special treatment. He needs things his way."

Now Derrick Rose leaves the team after shoot around without informing anyone on the team, misses a game, possibly throws the whole team off for the game in a very important stretch of the season where they need every win they can get and need to display a unified front more than ever...

And not a peep from Phil. Shameful.

Phil has done some good things here, but he is showing flaws as a President. I don't believe he said anything about the Fisher incident in training camp last year either - a situation that seemingly festered until it derailed last season. Will this Rose thing derail this season?

I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

CrushAlot wrote:I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

Yeah, Mills is the most direct representation of Dolan on the team and has definitely enabled stars from Melo to Marbury before. Was it good for Marbury's career? No - it basically ruined his career. It has not helped Melo either.

We're the most dysfunctional team in sports. It's really sad.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

Yeah, Mills is the most direct representation of Dolan on the team and has definitely enabled stars from Melo to Marbury before. Was it good for Marbury's career? No - it basically ruined his career. It has not helped Melo either.

We're the most dysfunctional team in sports. It's really sad.

My frustrations with Mills recently were with how things were handled in Woodson's final year. Forcing him to keep Chris, not backing him up with discipline issues like JR, Shump, conversing with Tyson during practice when Tyson wanted Woodson fired etc.

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

Yeah, Mills is the most direct representation of Dolan on the team and has definitely enabled stars from Melo to Marbury before. Was it good for Marbury's career? No - it basically ruined his career. It has not helped Melo either.

We're the most dysfunctional team in sports. It's really sad.

My frustrations with Mills recently were with how things were handled in Woodson's final year. Forcing him to keep Chris, not backing him up with discipline issues like JR, Shump, conversing with Tyson during practice when Tyson wanted Woodson fired etc.

Woodson also wanted to keep Lin, and he didn't want to add Bargnani. I still believe Bargnani was brought in via CAA to appease Melo who didn't like playing the PF under Woodson. Not for the benefit of the team, but to coddle Melo. Remember Glen Grunwald quit right after the Bargnani deal - we haven't made the playoffs since.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

Yeah, Mills is the most direct representation of Dolan on the team and has definitely enabled stars from Melo to Marbury before. Was it good for Marbury's career? No - it basically ruined his career. It has not helped Melo either.

We're the most dysfunctional team in sports. It's really sad.

My frustrations with Mills recently were with how things were handled in Woodson's final year. Forcing him to keep Chris, not backing him up with discipline issues like JR, Shump, conversing with Tyson during practice when Tyson wanted Woodson fired etc.

Woodson also wanted to keep Lin, and he didn't want to add Bargnani. I still believe Bargnani was brought in via CAA to appease Melo who didn't like playing the PF under Woodson. Not for the benefit of the team, but to coddle Melo. Remember Glen Grunwald quit right after the Bargnani deal - we haven't made the playoffs since.

That was brutal.

I mean he's only getting paid A MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH guys, I'm sure he has plenty more important things to do than be the head office face of our franchise whilst we implode once again.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

Yeah, Mills is the most direct representation of Dolan on the team and has definitely enabled stars from Melo to Marbury before. Was it good for Marbury's career? No - it basically ruined his career. It has not helped Melo either.

We're the most dysfunctional team in sports. It's really sad.

We don't compete with Sacramento as far as dysfunction, they are the absolute worst.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I agree that is time Phil make an appearance with the media. Even if he comes out and really doesn't say anything making an appearance is important. Also, why did Rose contact Mills? Is Phil that removed? Contact the Coach or Phil not Mills. Mills has enabled before.

Yeah, Mills is the most direct representation of Dolan on the team and has definitely enabled stars from Melo to Marbury before. Was it good for Marbury's career? No - it basically ruined his career. It has not helped Melo either.

We're the most dysfunctional team in sports. It's really sad.

My frustrations with Mills recently were with how things were handled in Woodson's final year. Forcing him to keep Chris, not backing him up with discipline issues like JR, Shump, conversing with Tyson during practice when Tyson wanted Woodson fired etc.

Woodson also wanted to keep Lin, and he didn't want to add Bargnani. I still believe Bargnani was brought in via CAA to appease Melo who didn't like playing the PF under Woodson. Not for the benefit of the team, but to coddle Melo. Remember Glen Grunwald quit right after the Bargnani deal - we haven't made the playoffs since.

Seem to recall that one of the reasons we got Kidd was to serve a mentor for Lin.

The Bargnani deal was such a killer...a situation where we might have gotten him without give up anything because he might have been waived.

Phil let Dennis Rodman on his team. He asked Jordan and Pippen before hand (its in phils book) that they need this guy but we will treat him differently. He was exiled from San antonio because they would not put up with it. Rodman was a bit of an outcast. He started kicking up and they sort of ignored it. When Rodman and Jordan bonded over cigars one night and he was part of the pack, Rodman was better about things. It was about winning and you can't set principles for every player. Rodman was awesome for most of the three years he was with the Bulls!

Phil might have known something we don't about rose before he traded for him. We know he has some interesting sex habits. Might have some personality disorders for all we know. And if you accept it before you make a trade, then its reasonable to treat him differently.
Look at the crap Rondo gets away with, and always had. Artest is another example. Teams recognize that a talented player is not always a fully functional person and they often work with them as much as they can.
Phil has enabled Kobe, Jordan, Rodman and im sure others. Phil lets his players breath and make mistakes. He understands they are not high disciplined Roger Staubach/David Robinson types but individuals that operate at high level physically but not in all facets of their lives. Its entirely possible Derrick is having problems on the team and made a huge mistake. Its entirely possible that it is a divisive moment or one that brings it together. WE don't know. What does it matter if Phil speaks to the press about this? Who cares if he called Mills or Miss Cleo as long as he communicated at some point. He phucked up!!

Jordan had his own rules. He would go out after games in NY and gamble all night, come to practice than maybe sleep. But he backed it up. If the team held him to the same standard as others, it would have been divisive. Im not saying Rose is Jordan but he is a big part of this team and if Rose is acceptable to the Zen and all that goes with it he could emerge as a great asset to us. He is not receptive to the triangle and he might be under a lot of pressure financially, and also "Life Happens".

Losing sucks and something was brewing with this team for the last few weeks. SOmething is under Melo's skin and coach is not happy either.

Damn that Rambis!!!!

I doubt Phil would actually let everyone know this before he trades him.
So Phil comes out slams Rose in the press.
Ok. Now what? Roses trade value is all time low. You won't even get a peanut. A disgraced Rose is now your problem for the rest of the season.

Right now they are playing it great. Keep Rose and pretend it's all good. I'm hoping this is enough for them to realize Rose is a no go long term on a contract. So if there's a good offer deal him.

Trashing Rose in the press is the emotional short sighted response. The smart long term move is to deal him by trade deadline.

nyknickzingis wrote:I doubt Phil would actually let everyone know this before he trades him.
So Phil comes out slams Rose in the press.
Ok. Now what? Roses trade value is all time low. You won't even get a peanut. A disgraced Rose is now your problem for the rest of the season.

Right now they are playing it great. Keep Rose and pretend it's all good. I'm hoping this is enough for them to realize Rose is a no go long term on a contract. So if there's a good offer deal him.

Trashing Rose in the press is the emotional short sighted response. The smart long term move is to deal him by trade deadline.

He doesn't have to trash him. He could put a positive spin on it and leave it at that. Not addressing it is typical of how he has handled things in the past. Addressing it with a positive spin might have been the best way to handle it.

nyknickzingis wrote:I doubt Phil would actually let everyone know this before he trades him.
So Phil comes out slams Rose in the press.
Ok. Now what? Roses trade value is all time low. You won't even get a peanut. A disgraced Rose is now your problem for the rest of the season.

Right now they are playing it great. Keep Rose and pretend it's all good. I'm hoping this is enough for them to realize Rose is a no go long term on a contract. So if there's a good offer deal him.

Trashing Rose in the press is the emotional short sighted response. The smart long term move is to deal him by trade deadline.

My take is every GM knows about Rose even before all of this. Trashing him, does not hurt his value, his actions or play does. GM's deal with head cases all the time and I can imagine there are people that help them thru counseling and being healthy in mind and spirit.
While there is a client privilege, the depths are not known, but its a physically and mentally exhausting job. They need help. The money, social pressures, temptations is a lot for any person.

Rose was had for very little. A journeyman center and Grant. I like Grant, but this was a good attempt. Rose has talent. If he can get his head right, he might be great again.

I think you are all not only missing the point by missing a watershed moment in Knicks history.

Now its hard to tell if this is by design or by accident but what's very interesting about the Knicks response to the MSM and sour-grapes fan cohort hysteria is that they simply refused to play The Knicks remained unflustered by the whole thing and, well... it just went away.

It's downright refreshing, IMO. Phil, having been around basketball prima donnas his entire life, realizes that these 20-something kids don't have a lot going on upstairs and so rather than throw Rose to the Wolves, he slaps him on the wrist and let's the team carry on.

I doubt that the back room conversations are comfortable but Rose's reputation is no more or less than it was, the Knicks still need to win games, and until opprtunity knocks - play ball.

Mills is the GM! He's actually the guy doing the heavy lifting everyday. Phil as President is guiding the overarching plan but he's not an administrator of every action the team makes. People want to overlook Mills because Phil is the big name and making the big bucks but Mills has a key role as the actual GM of the team.

Phil and Mills realize the short news cycle will move on to other stories and there's no need to overreact. It's bad enough what's going on with the team. No need to raise the drama level any higher.

nixluva wrote:Mills is the GM! He's actually the guy doing the heavy lifting everyday. Phil as President is guiding the overarching plan but he's not an administrator of every action the team makes. People want to overlook Mills because Phil is the big name and making the big bucks but Mills has a key role as the actual GM of the team.

Phil and Mills realize the short news cycle will move on to other stories and there's no need to overreact. It's bad enough what's going on with the team. No need to raise the drama level any higher.

Is Phil the leader of the basketball side of this organization or not?

A leader would say something.

fwk00 wrote:I think you are all not only missing the point by missing a watershed moment in Knicks history.

Now its hard to tell if this is by design or by accident but what's very interesting about the Knicks response to the MSM and sour-grapes fan cohort hysteria is that they simply refused to play The Knicks remained unflustered by the whole thing and, well... it just went away.

It's downright refreshing, IMO. Phil, having been around basketball prima donnas his entire life, realizes that these 20-something kids don't have a lot going on upstairs and so rather than throw Rose to the Wolves, he slaps him on the wrist and let's the team carry on.

I doubt that the back room conversations are comfortable but Rose's reputation is no more or less than it was, the Knicks still need to win games, and until opprtunity knocks - play ball.

Well, it's not every day that the Intelligence community of this country releases a 35-page report detailing how the president elect is possibly engaged in a treasonous relationship with Russia and enjoys watersports. The Knicks got lucky. The rest of us? Not so much.

Please don't act like the Knicks handled this well. They got a massive distraction in the form of the entire country being screwed.

Why must the leader address the knick Nation? If you are the speech writer, what points must he cover to satisfy a fan?
Must he "tweet' acknowledgement of the problem? Discuss upping his meds? Discuss that he is seeing a new psychologist? Has a pulled groin and a personality disorder? A self esteem crisis?
Or you want to hear some crap that "Team will rally around him", or "They are supporting a member of their family"?

Its an entertainment company, not a government. If the knicks as some writers who are trying to incite a response are dysfunctional for years now, why do people keep buying tickets Why do they view them on tv? Why do they write on these pages?
Choice.

This is not government. Phil is not trying to repeal your health insurance, nor has he compromised your safety by peeing on hookers in moscow. Derrick Rose went to practice, wigged out, flew home to see his mother and caved under the pressure he created by his career choice and could not function. The team lost a ball game and those in attendance, who did not watch the start of the college football championship saw a lousy product. If he had called, or got a stomach bug, and the team did not play well, say lost by 10 fewer points, would it have mattered? Do teams, even at home sometimes blow a game? Does the knicks sometimes do strange things to their coach, sign bad attitude players, have guys curse out their ex owner, put towels on their heads, or fake an injury? Of course they do. Has Artest ever done crazy things? Rodman? Jason Williams? Draymond? Turned on the Natonal Anthem? Start a fight? Kill a passenger in their car? Drink? Get high? Drink? Sleep with another players girl? Get shot at a night club? Slap a women in a bar? Fight a marshmallow salesman? Get Stabbed at a night club? Get blown by a tranny? Get into fight at a club? After a club? Be rude? Speed? Not show up for training camp and not tell anyone? Etc etc.............

And what is a team president going to say? In this instance Derrick Rose spoke to the press after practice. It was him that did not show up, and it was him that had to speak for himself. Team was reported to fine him an undisclosed amount.

What else do you want?

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I doubt Phil would actually let everyone know this before he trades him.
So Phil comes out slams Rose in the press.
Ok. Now what? Roses trade value is all time low. You won't even get a peanut. A disgraced Rose is now your problem for the rest of the season.

Right now they are playing it great. Keep Rose and pretend it's all good. I'm hoping this is enough for them to realize Rose is a no go long term on a contract. So if there's a good offer deal him.

Trashing Rose in the press is the emotional short sighted response. The smart long term move is to deal him by trade deadline.

He doesn't have to trash him. He could put a positive spin on it and leave it at that. Not addressing it is typical of how he has handled things in the past. Addressing it with a positive spin might have been the best way to handle it.

I said this in another thread. It's not the D Rose issue that Phil needs to comment on - it's our record.

He should come out - say, look, we thought we'd be better- obviously we haven't played up to our potential, we still believe in our guys and we believe the future continues to be bright for the organization and we're continuing to work towards that. Obviously, we thought we'd be in a position to compete for the play offs - we still have hope there.

Take some pressure off the players and coach, and then challenge them, quietly.

Nalod wrote:

Phil let Dennis Rodman on his team. He asked Jordan and Pippen before hand (its in phils book) that they need this guy but we will treat him differently. He was exiled from San antonio because they would not put up with it. Rodman was a bit of an outcast. He started kicking up and they sort of ignored it. When Rodman and Jordan bonded over cigars one night and he was part of the pack, Rodman was better about things. It was about winning and you can't set principles for every player. Rodman was awesome for most of the three years he was with the Bulls!

Phil might have known something we don't about rose before he traded for him. We know he has some interesting sex habits. Might have some personality disorders for all we know. And if you accept it before you make a trade, then its reasonable to treat him differently.
Look at the crap Rondo gets away with, and always had. Artest is another example. Teams recognize that a talented player is not always a fully functional person and they often work with them as much as they can.
Phil has enabled Kobe, Jordan, Rodman and im sure others. Phil lets his players breath and make mistakes. He understands they are not high disciplined Roger Staubach/David Robinson types but individuals that operate at high level physically but not in all facets of their lives. Its entirely possible Derrick is having problems on the team and made a huge mistake. Its entirely possible that it is a divisive moment or one that brings it together. WE don't know. What does it matter if Phil speaks to the press about this? Who cares if he called Mills or Miss Cleo as long as he communicated at some point. He phucked up!!

Jordan had his own rules. He would go out after games in NY and gamble all night, come to practice than maybe sleep. But he backed it up. If the team held him to the same standard as others, it would have been divisive. Im not saying Rose is Jordan but he is a big part of this team and if Rose is acceptable to the Zen and all that goes with it he could emerge as a great asset to us. He is not receptive to the triangle and he might be under a lot of pressure financially, and also "Life Happens".

Losing sucks and something was brewing with this team for the last few weeks. SOmething is under Melo's skin and coach is not happy either.

Damn that Rambis!!!!

Good post. This needs to settle down some so we can decide from a more reasoned less emotional state