Knicks · Hopefully Knicks learn something from this Win (page 2)
I actually think this team has not maximized the talent it has already. That goes for all the players people think aren't good enough. There's really no good reason this team shouldn't be able to beat most of the lesser teams in this league if they're playing the right way!!!
nixluva wrote:The key to me is Jeff doing what he TRULY believes is right for this team! He can't be forced to play lineups that aren't right for this team or forced to run more Triangle than is good for these players! If Jeff wants to play Melo at the 4 more then he should do that.I actually think this team has not maximized the talent it has already. That goes for all the players people think aren't good enough. There's really no good reason this team shouldn't be able to beat most of the lesser teams in this league if they're playing the right way!!!
I agree and I'm not sure what the deal is. Is this Jeff running the system he wants to or is this Phil's system?
I'm not smart enough to understand the triangle, or pictures meant to explain it to an idiot.
I do know what great basketball looks like and I know what our players are not playing anything close to good basketball.
I do think our FO/Coach is asking too much of some of our players, and it shows in the hesitation and awkwardness on offense.
Phil says Melo holds the ball too long. But sometimes I think they hold the ball because they're being asked to play different from the way they've always played.
I miss MDA. He was brilliant, and I'm glad he is having success in Houston. He got Chris Duhon to hand out 22 assists in a game. Rose had what, 3 last night?
I like that Phil has moved Dolan out (from what we can see), and he's gotten some nice talent. But I feel like he does need to move on from trying to force a system on the players/coaches.
Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
franco12 wrote:nixluva wrote:The key to me is Jeff doing what he TRULY believes is right for this team! He can't be forced to play lineups that aren't right for this team or forced to run more Triangle than is good for these players! If Jeff wants to play Melo at the 4 more then he should do that.I actually think this team has not maximized the talent it has already. That goes for all the players people think aren't good enough. There's really no good reason this team shouldn't be able to beat most of the lesser teams in this league if they're playing the right way!!!
I agree and I'm not sure what the deal is. Is this Jeff running the system he wants to or is this Phil's system?
I'm not smart enough to understand the triangle, or pictures meant to explain it to an idiot.
I do know what great basketball looks like and I know what our players are not playing anything close to good basketball.
I do think our FO/Coach is asking too much of some of our players, and it shows in the hesitation and awkwardness on offense.
Phil says Melo holds the ball too long. But sometimes I think they hold the ball because they're being asked to play different from the way they've always played.
I miss MDA. He was brilliant, and I'm glad he is having success in Houston. He got Chris Duhon to hand out 22 assists in a game. Rose had what, 3 last night?I like that Phil has moved Dolan out (from what we can see), and he's gotten some nice talent. But I feel like he does need to move on from trying to force a system on the players/coaches.
It's a hard balance to pin point coach, system, players and say that one or more of those things is the reason for wins or losses. While MDA was in NY, he pretty much flat-lined. Was it the coach, his system or the players? In PHO and Houston, he has been brilliant. In LA, he stunk.
Same with Phil/Triangle/system, Jeff and our current roster. Which one doesn't fit exactly right and/or does it need time or further adjusting (either system or players)?
martin wrote:Thanks! That's a relief. I was having Ewing flashbacks for a second.Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
Knixkik wrote:I don't know. As disappointing as we've been I think Rose/Jennings resulted in more wins than Jennings/Calderon/Grant would've.franco12 wrote:Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
If we had made no moves in the off season outside of maybe bringing in some of the guys that came free (Willy, Kuz) and went with Lopez and Calderon - would our record be much worse?
Everyone here justified the overpaying of Noah by saying we got Lee on a discount? Really?
Can folks man up at this point and basically admit to themselves that Noah and Lee are albatross contracts, and no amount of salary cap increase is ever going to erase the harm they are doing as far as trying to build in the future.
Lee isn't an albatross contract by any means. He's been a starting SG his whole career and 12 mil a year is what good reserves are getting paid. I think had we not made the Bulls deal, and just signed Jennings and Lee to be the backcourt, with Lopez at center, we would probably be a little better than we are now, or at least not worse. Lopez can stretch the floor a little bit whereas Noah can't, so the spacing would be better. But ultimately, nothing will really matter until KP and Melo move to their natural positions full-time.
Welpee wrote:martin wrote:Thanks! That's a relief. I was having Ewing flashbacks for a second.Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
It is simply overuse i think. He's still developing and overuse is common, especially for younger players getting used to the NBA grind.
Knixkik wrote:Welpee wrote:martin wrote:Thanks! That's a relief. I was having Ewing flashbacks for a second.Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
It is simply overuse i think. He's still developing and overuse is common, especially for younger players getting used to the NBA grind.
Karl Anthony Towns has played every game for MN and more minutes.
Yes, KAT has probably played a more demanding style of basketball with NCAA- but let's not make excuses.
Porzingas just has a lot more to develop physically. He is way too skinny and needs some more heft to his body to stay healthy.
franco12 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Welpee wrote:martin wrote:Thanks! That's a relief. I was having Ewing flashbacks for a second.Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
It is simply overuse i think. He's still developing and overuse is common, especially for younger players getting used to the NBA grind.
Karl Anthony Towns has played every game for MN and more minutes.
Yes, KAT has probably played a more demanding style of basketball with NCAA- but let's not make excuses.
Porzingas just has a lot more to develop physically. He is way too skinny and needs some more heft to his body to stay healthy.
As you said, Towns is further along physically than Porzingis is at this point. Porzingis is also a lot taller.
Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Welpee wrote:martin wrote:Thanks! That's a relief. I was having Ewing flashbacks for a second.Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
It is simply overuse i think. He's still developing and overuse is common, especially for younger players getting used to the NBA grind.
Karl Anthony Towns has played every game for MN and more minutes.
Yes, KAT has probably played a more demanding style of basketball with NCAA- but let's not make excuses.
Porzingas just has a lot more to develop physically. He is way too skinny and needs some more heft to his body to stay healthy.
As you said, Towns is further along physically than Porzingis is at this point. Porzingis is also a lot taller.
Agreed. You should NEVER compare body development of 2 different players. Apples and Oranges.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Welpee wrote:martin wrote:Thanks! That's a relief. I was having Ewing flashbacks for a second.Welpee wrote:BRIGGS wrote:What did we learn?
That Kuz and oquinn deserve big roles
That we need a quality pro Sg or 2
That Courtney Lee is a bench player
That we need to let kp completely heal
1) Totally agree, especially Kuz. I also think Willy and Holiday deserve more burn and Thomas deserves more bench time.
2) & 3)I don't care what the stats say, Lee hasn't been as lights out as his stats indicate. And his defense hasn't been as good as advertised. Yeah, it would be great if we had a better option and he came off the bench.
4) Maybe I missed it but have they actually performed an MRI on KP's achilles? I don't remember reading anything about an MRI and if they haven't isn't it about time?Given the current record I'd like to see us ride more with the young guys. With KP out now is a perfect excuse to see what Kuz brings to the table.
MRI details are out there, nothing popped up on them.
It is simply overuse i think. He's still developing and overuse is common, especially for younger players getting used to the NBA grind.
Karl Anthony Towns has played every game for MN and more minutes.
Yes, KAT has probably played a more demanding style of basketball with NCAA- but let's not make excuses.
Porzingas just has a lot more to develop physically. He is way too skinny and needs some more heft to his body to stay healthy.
As you said, Towns is further along physically than Porzingis is at this point. Porzingis is also a lot taller.
Agreed. You should NEVER compare body development of 2 different players. Apples and Oranges.
His slower development is also the reason many consider his potential to be greater than Towns. Towns is physically more of a finished product at this point. Porzingis just has so much growing to do. Seems like we will just have to deal with these types of setbacks for awhile until he puts it all together.
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:nixluva wrote:The key to me is Jeff doing what he TRULY believes is right for this team! He can't be forced to play lineups that aren't right for this team or forced to run more Triangle than is good for these players! If Jeff wants to play Melo at the 4 more then he should do that.I actually think this team has not maximized the talent it has already. That goes for all the players people think aren't good enough. There's really no good reason this team shouldn't be able to beat most of the lesser teams in this league if they're playing the right way!!!
I agree and I'm not sure what the deal is. Is this Jeff running the system he wants to or is this Phil's system?
I'm not smart enough to understand the triangle, or pictures meant to explain it to an idiot.
I do know what great basketball looks like and I know what our players are not playing anything close to good basketball.
I do think our FO/Coach is asking too much of some of our players, and it shows in the hesitation and awkwardness on offense.
Phil says Melo holds the ball too long. But sometimes I think they hold the ball because they're being asked to play different from the way they've always played.
I miss MDA. He was brilliant, and I'm glad he is having success in Houston. He got Chris Duhon to hand out 22 assists in a game. Rose had what, 3 last night?I like that Phil has moved Dolan out (from what we can see), and he's gotten some nice talent. But I feel like he does need to move on from trying to force a system on the players/coaches.
It's a hard balance to pin point coach, system, players and say that one or more of those things is the reason for wins or losses. While MDA was in NY, he pretty much flat-lined. Was it the coach, his system or the players? In PHO and Houston, he has been brilliant. In LA, he stunk.
Same with Phil/Triangle/system, Jeff and our current roster. Which one doesn't fit exactly right and/or does it need time or further adjusting (either system or players)?
IMO the problem that MDA had was a HORRID Front Office situation that was not in full support of him as coach in neither NY or LA. He's never really failed if you gave him even just DECENT PG's. In NY they should've waited on CP3 and looked to sign him or at least some other talented guard that could be the focal point of his offense. He tried to get Melo to buy into his vision but Melo resisted. Now Melo has since actually had better understanding of what he was being asked to do and has shown more of an ability to be a passer, tho not consistently enough but he gets it more now.
Jeff is VERY much a modern coach that sees the game more like MDA and other coaches that have come around since MDA. If Jeff stays true to his beliefs I think he'll get this team functioning at a higher level. IMO when Jeff tries to pacify Phil and Rambis things don't work as well. I hope he pushes back and does what he wants.
Coaches like Kerr, Popovic and when Phil Jackson was coaching were able to design great offenses but also make their teams defend, and one other key was they never relied on one player (the point guard) as much as D'Antoni has.
What can D'Antoni do if you give him a good but not great point guard? His time in Denver, NY and LA show that unless he has a great point guard in his prime, he can't even have his teams play .500 ball
nyknickzingis wrote:D'Antoni's offense and style will never win a championship. It's a great style to win many games if you have a franchise point guard in his prime, and if the team buys in. It's not the same impact in the playoffs. Too easy to defend a team that has one player dominating the ball as much as Harden is. I think we will see that in the playoffs this year and coming years. Houston runs most of their offense through James Harden. Teams like Cleveland and Golden State run their offense through 2 or more players. The other thing is relying so heavily on 3 point shooting, if you have one series where your 3 point shooters are tired or off, you're done. Then defense. What D'Antoni team has ever played championship defense?Coaches like Kerr, Popovic and when Phil Jackson was coaching were able to design great offenses but also make their teams defend, and one other key was they never relied on one player (the point guard) as much as D'Antoni has.
What can D'Antoni do if you give him a good but not great point guard? His time in Denver, NY and LA show that unless he has a great point guard in his prime, he can't even have his teams play .500 ball
I think you're being a bit too harsh. MDA never had very deep teams and managed to get the most possible out of his teams. He also went up against teams with All Time Greats when he had his best teams in PHX.
In any event he changed the game with his concepts. Many coaches use his stuff and have tweaked things. One thing that is overlooked is that MDA made teams that lacked great overall talent play way above what they should with only one necessary ingredient... A PG or ball handler that could control a game! What if you gave him more than one quality ball handler???
Also until Golden State people didn't believe they could win playing that way either.