Knicks · Hahn: Start Melo at the 4 bring KP off the bench until he recovers (page 1)
Al Trautwig turned to me at the start of the postgame show and asked, “What did we learn from this game?”http://www.msgnetworks.com/2017/01/13/sh...The answer came easy: Carmelo Anthony is a more effective player at both ends of the floor, at this point of his career, at the power forward spot.
Of course, that also depends on the matchups each night.
With Kristaps Porzingis out of the lineup to rest a chronic Achilles issue, Melo slid down to the four spot and Lance Thomas started at the three. Thomas provided another defensive-minded presence, along with Courtney Lee, and Melo was able to work against the likes of Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis.
Melo, whose numbers show he usually struggles in the second game of a back-to-back, had 23 points, 9 rebounds and 6 assists with a +22 in 33 minutes.
Alan Hahn looks at how the Knicks ran their offense through Carmelo Anthony in their 104-98 victory over the Bulls.
KNICKS BOUNCE BACK VS. BULLS
It should be noted that the Bulls were without stretch-4 Nikola Mirotic and also their best player, Jimmy Butler, who were out with the flu. Chicago has been riddled by illness lately.Regardless of the asterisks anyone wants to put on this result, the Knicks needed this win. They had lost nine of 10 coming into the game and that included two crushing buzzer-beaters.
Derrick Rose had 17 points and is shooting 58% from the field in the two games since his one-game absence for what he called a family situation. He keeps saying he wants everyone to put that issue in the past and the one way to get anyone to do that is to continue to play at a high level.
Here’s the question as we go forward: if Melo at this point of his career is better suited to play the power forward spot — as we pointed out a few games ago — then perhaps he should stay there with Joakim Noah next to him as a rebounder and rim protector, and two defenders (Lee and Thomas) on the floor to help as well.
Let the starting lineup play a slower pace and in half court sets that seem to fit the older personnel they have. And while Porzingis is dealing with this Achilles issue — and some mid-season fatigue — you can control his minutes by bringing him off the bench.
Porzingis can thrive with a faster second unit and a point guard in Brandon Jennings, who seems to look for him more than those in the first unit do.
Mindaugas Kuzminskas had his best game with 19 points off the bench. Kyle O’Quinn has been terrific. There is a lot of potential on that bench, but the chemistry hasn’t been there because the rotations have been inconsistent. Perhaps bringing KP off the bench would solve those issues?
SACRAMENTO, CA - DECEMBER 9: Justin Holiday #8, Brandon Jennings #3, Kristaps Porzingis #6 and Kyle O'Quinn #9 of the New York Knicks huddle during the game against the Sacramento Kings on December 9, 2016 at Golden 1 Center in Sacramento, California. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and or using this photograph, User is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images Agreement. Mandatory Copyright Notice: Copyright 2016 NBAE (Photo by Rocky Widner/NBAE via Getty Images)
Now it has to be pointed out that Porzingis has been playing with the bench in second quarters. That has been his best scoring quarter over the last month of games, but as we have recently pointed out, the team has struggled in those quarters.
But will his mindset change if he comes in off the bench as the first option with a full battery?
Hey, when you’ve had a tailspin like the Knicks have had, you have to consider and try everything.
First things first: the Knicks have to get KP healthy. Jeff Hornacek said he may hold him out of practice on Saturday and see how he feels Sunday before the team takes the court against the Raptors in Toronto.
We will have the pregame coverage on Knicks Game Day on MSG at 2:30 p.m. on Sunday.
ALAN HAHN, CARMELO ANTHONY, CHICAGO BULLS, KNICKS FIX, KRISTAPS PORZINGIS, NEW YORK KNICKS
Obviously we need KP fully healthy. Once he is healthy I want KP to be a starter. If Jeff limits the Triangle sets and uses more Spread Offense I think KP and Melo will be fine starting together. One thing Jeff could try is taking Noah out early as opposed to KP. Then you can still have an additional SF like LT or Kuz come into the game with Melo and KP at the 4/5.
Knixkik wrote:How about just sit KP until he recovers? Then start him at center. He is our best player, when healthy, and the entire future of this franchise. We would be considered an even bigger joke of a franchise if we brought him off the bench. Those who suggest it are a joke. Let's ruin the only bright spot on our team, one of the best young players in the league, and destroy his confidence. Noah can be a really good backup center. KP can be a really good starting center. Not sure why this is even mentioned as a possibility. Start KP, take him out early like usual, let Noah run the rest of the 1st, and bring KP back in the 2nd quarter with the 2nd unit. Very simple.I agree about resting him until he is healthy but I think Hahn is looking at the team goal of winning. I think the reason it was mentioned was covered in the article. Aside from the franchise 'being an embarassment' what specific issues do you have with what Hahn said?
Al Trautwig turned to me at the start of the postgame show and asked, “What did we learn from this game?”
The answer came easy: Carmelo Anthony is a more effective player at both ends of the floor, at this point of his career, at the power forward spot.
We didn't learn that this game. We learned it several years ago and it's been obvious for a long time.
Bonn1997 wrote:Al Trautwig turned to me at the start of the postgame show and asked, “What did we learn from this game?”
The answer came easy: Carmelo Anthony is a more effective player at both ends of the floor, at this point of his career, at the power forward spot.
We didn't learn that this game. We learned it several years ago and it's been obvious for a long time.
+1
Bonn1997 wrote:Except over that time the Knicks have acquired 4 centers and KP. The franchise hasn't built the team like they were aware of that. Fish/Rambis certainly didn't or couldn't coach like that was the case. Melo cannot be traded. Committing the money that they did and giving him the ntc means the Knicks are going to have Melo until 2019. When you make that signing it seems like you build your team knowing you have one position locked up.Al Trautwig turned to me at the start of the postgame show and asked, “What did we learn from this game?”
The answer came easy: Carmelo Anthony is a more effective player at both ends of the floor, at this point of his career, at the power forward spot.
We didn't learn that this game. We learned it several years ago and it's been obvious for a long time.
CrushAlot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Except over that time the Knicks have acquired 4 centers and KP. The franchise hasn't built the team like they were aware of that. Fish/Rambis certainly didn't or couldn't coach like that was the case. Melo cannot be traded. Committing the money that they did and giving him the ntc means the Knicks are going to have Melo until 2019. When you make that signing it seems like you build your team knowing you have one position locked up.Al Trautwig turned to me at the start of the postgame show and asked, “What did we learn from this game?”
The answer came easy: Carmelo Anthony is a more effective player at both ends of the floor, at this point of his career, at the power forward spot.
We didn't learn that this game. We learned it several years ago and it's been obvious for a long time.
Phil was most definitely building this team with the Triangle and Melo at the 3 in mind. It no longer matters if Jeff can find success with his move towards less Triangle. The move to playing 4 Out was more important than Melo playing the 4 in this last game. It wasn't just Melo looking more comfortable.
Melo can play the same way he did yesterday as the 3 simply by playing 4 Out and having Noah set the Screen for Melo which still means he's going to be facing the same Center trying to stop him from scoring. KP can easily occupy the same spots on the floor that LT, KOQ or Kuz did last night. It's not absolutely necessary for Melo to have to start at the 4. They can easily have him play the 4 at times during any game just as they can slide KP to C at any point in a game without having to start him there. What's more important is playing more Spread offense so that these guys aren't locked into the same old Melo Post Up in the Pinch Post every time down. That was the major difference more so than a change in Position for Melo.
blkexec wrote:I've said this for years.....and also said KP should've been coming in off the bench....then finishing the game in the 4th. It's not rocket science. A.Roger's was a promising pick for greenbay.....because he played behind Bret farve for years, his transition to a star was easy.
I understand you point but I must say that there's no reason why KP can't be a successful starter for this team. I think it's not so much about him as it is about HOW Jeff has the team play. If they play a very traditional style then it actually doesn't fit KP's game as a 7-3 forward that needs SPACE as opposed to trying to post up a lot of the time. I think just shifting as it seems Jeff is doing, from Triangle to Spread PnR would do wonders for KP's game.
I say this because KP is too long and thin to be operating in a crowd as you do in the Triangle. He needs room to do his thing without so many help defenders so close to him. The Triangle Spacing actually hurts his game at this point in his career. He's not strong enough to really bang so let him play in space in a more free flowing offense. I think Jeff knows this now and will look to do just that.
However for the starters, Melo is better off as a 4. It's not about offense. The team scores enough points. The starting 5 with KP at 4 and Melo at 3, were scoring more than enough points. The problem is defense, When Lance comes in for KP, it allows the Knicks to be a bit quicker and they have better coverage on defense. Melo is not relied to be a perimeter defender exclusively, which is a weakness for him. Melo gets to play the Team USA role.
For Melo, KP is best at 5. For KP's development, he is best set at 4. Yet another conundrum on this team. What I'd do is start KP at 5, take him out around the 6 minute mark for Noah, bring him back with O'Quinn and the 2nd unit as a 4. Close him depending on match ups.
Something as follows
(Per half)
KP/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 6
Noah/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 4
Noah/Kuz/Holiday/Rose/Jennings - 2
O'Quinn/KP/Kuz/Holiday/Jennings - 4
O'Quinn/KP/Melo/Lee/Rose - 4
KP or Noah/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 4
KP gets about 16 minutes a game at 4, rest at 5. About 32-36 minutes a night.
nyknickzingis wrote:I think KP is more like Dirk than he is Pau Gasol or some of the Centers. Look at the physical and post base of a Towns or Embiid and compare it with KP. KP is much better served as a 4 man than a 5. At 4, KP has a post up mismatch every time down and also has length advantage for rebounds and shooting/releasing his shots. He has enough speed to battle most 4's. What's happening is many teams are putting 3's on him and he does not know yet how to deal with those situations on a consistent basis. We try to post him up but not with any consistency and then we play confused basketball as to who to go to KP or Melo.However for the starters, Melo is better off as a 4. It's not about offense. The team scores enough points. The starting 5 with KP at 4 and Melo at 3, were scoring more than enough points. The problem is defense, When Lance comes in for KP, it allows the Knicks to be a bit quicker and they have better coverage on defense. Melo is not relied to be a perimeter defender exclusively, which is a weakness for him. Melo gets to play the Team USA role.
For Melo, KP is best at 5. For KP's development, he is best set at 4. Yet another conundrum on this team. What I'd do is start KP at 5, take him out around the 6 minute mark for Noah, bring him back with O'Quinn and the 2nd unit as a 4. Close him depending on match ups.
Something as follows
(Per half)
KP/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 6
Noah/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 4
Noah/Kuz/Holiday/Rose/Jennings - 2
O'Quinn/KP/Kuz/Holiday/Jennings - 4
O'Quinn/KP/Melo/Lee/Rose - 4
KP or Noah/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 4KP gets about 16 minutes a game at 4, rest at 5. About 32-36 minutes a night.
But here's the thing. Dirk has been playing center this year. In today's game, even dirk is a center and he doesn't have the height or offer the rim protection that porzingis does. New Orleans really struggled to find a center that fit next to Anthony Davis that didn't get in his way. They finally moved him to center and it has made a world of difference. Hopefully knicks are smart enough to do the same.
nyknickzingis wrote:I think KP is more like Dirk than he is Pau Gasol or some of the Centers. Look at the physical and post base of a Towns or Embiid and compare it with KP. KP is much better served as a 4 man than a 5. At 4, KP has a post up mismatch every time down and also has length advantage for rebounds and shooting/releasing his shots. He has enough speed to battle most 4's. What's happening is many teams are putting 3's on him and he does not know yet how to deal with those situations on a consistent basis. We try to post him up but not with any consistency and then we play confused basketball as to who to go to KP or Melo.However for the starters, Melo is better off as a 4. It's not about offense. The team scores enough points. The starting 5 with KP at 4 and Melo at 3, were scoring more than enough points. The problem is defense, When Lance comes in for KP, it allows the Knicks to be a bit quicker and they have better coverage on defense. Melo is not relied to be a perimeter defender exclusively, which is a weakness for him. Melo gets to play the Team USA role.
For Melo, KP is best at 5. For KP's development, he is best set at 4. Yet another conundrum on this team. What I'd do is start KP at 5, take him out around the 6 minute mark for Noah, bring him back with O'Quinn and the 2nd unit as a 4. Close him depending on match ups.
Something as follows(Per half)
KP/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 6
Noah/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 4
Noah/Kuz/Holiday/Rose/Jennings - 2
O'Quinn/KP/Kuz/Holiday/Jennings - 4
O'Quinn/KP/Melo/Lee/Rose - 4
KP or Noah/Melo/Thomas/Lee/Rose - 4KP gets about 16 minutes a game at 4, rest at 5. About 32-36 minutes a night.
I agree with your minutes and rotation solutions for KP and Melo.