nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:The title of this thread is bogus. Phil gave Melo the no trade. As always, this is a situation Phil created that he's trying to blame on someone else.
Steven A Smith is a Phil hater and Melo guy and Melo talks to him quite a bit and he even has given Phil a pass for the NTC. Smith has said again and again that Melo was not staying a Knick without that NTC. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mimPXcVG_Bs
That's the last time he said it a few days ago.
Think about that timeline. Dolan hires Phil and the first order of business is to make sure Melo stays. Are you going to let him walk? No way. Now I know it was a mistake and I even said so at the time. I was not a member of this board at the time, but kept harping on why we gave him the NTC. It was an awful move, Very calculated by Melo's camp. They knew he was coming into free agency playing on the lottery Knicks with Woodson and those vets from that year looking poor. That roster was not going anywhere. Melo had to know he may be in the lottery again a year or two. He also had to know that if he were, the Knicks trading him would gain traction. Just like it has the last year. That NTC gives him what he wanted. He stays the man in NY regardless of winning or losing. Mistake was Dolan's. Don't hire a person with zero front office experience to re-sign a star player who was not a MVP level player. To do all that for Melo, is ridiculous. Melo's a good player, a nice guy and a good teammate. I like him. Mistake was Dolan's. Just like trading for Melo in 2010. He should have waited in free agency and kept his young players that went to Denver. Dolan simply does not know how to build a winning team and get star stuck too quickly. Phil Jackson has been bad at many things but I appreciate his patience with draft picks and not hesitating. Having the balls to draft Kristaps when knowing plenty in New York would be upset (melo included) showed he is thinking about the long run. I still have faith in this franchise longterm so long as we keep drafting well and KP develops. KP is averaging better numbers than Dirk in his second year. Anyone want D'Angelo Russell or Mudiay now? We gotta draft well again this summer in 2017 and Phil needs to stop the infatuation with older vets like Lee, Noah and company. Get younger and athletic and give Horny a faster harder playing team. Melo at 4 will solve much of his problems. We got KP at 5, Melo at 4, Kuz at 3, Baker, Willy and Holiday, We got some young talent there around Melo. Got to draft well this summer and keep looking for steals like Willy in the second round. Oh, and no more signing or trading for VETS whose best days are behind them ala Calderon, Rose, Lee, Noah. The RoLo signing was very good. In hindsiht Phil should have just stuck with his instincts and kept RoLo and Grant, let them develop around KP. RoLo could have come off the bench as KP moved to 5. We'd be deeper and more athletic. No more trades messing with future. Lets stay consistent.
I doubt very much that SAS talks to Melo quite a bit and don't think Melo even likes him just like most other star players don't like him. SAS always acts like he's friends with a lot of players and any celebrity in sports or not and don't believe that to be true at all. He thinks that if these players do an after game interview with him that they're his friends but it's their job to talk to these reporters after games.
HofstraBBall wrote:Paris907 wrote:Melo Has to go. He's been a slow steady cancer slowing down the offense, keeping us from a true rebuild, limited defense, virtually no athleticism. We don't need Melo shooting 40% and taking 20 shots. If we traded his ass 2 years ago, we would have a great complimentary player for KP and still seat low enough to secure a strong first rounder
Dont think so. Traded him for who exactly? Honest questions: Do you think a back court of Jose, Gallo and a bench where LT is the best player should be something even a guy like LBJ would win a chip with? Last I checked he has pretty good help when he does (Irving had the best finals of any player in quite some time and now Love and oh yeah they just needed to add Korver) Second question, rebuild: Do you think Charlotte, Sacramento, Philly Minny, Phoenix, Denver, Pelicans, Wizards, Magic, Pistons will be close to winning a chip in the next 5 to 7 years without making a trade for a big established name? And how have they done with their rebuilds in the last 5 years?
I always enjoy how everything would have been truly incredible if:
1) We had not traded for Melo to begin with. I mean, watching the Denver Nuggets would have been so exciting for the past 4 years. I especially love how Denver won their division and Gallo lead the league in scoring and broke all of Kiki Vandeweghe's franchise records. I really liked watching Denver finally making it to the second round of the playoffs, too!
2) If we had just traded Melo two years ago, we could have been the Sixers! Wouldn't that be fun? Because no other legit star players wanted to come here before, but if we had just been tanking all this time, LeQ and CP3 and who knows who else would have been running to fill the void left by Stat!
3) Melo, who we can't win one game without, has to go. That's the key to franchise happiness! His near triple doubles and game winning shots are specifically the things keeping this team down!
smackeddog wrote:This isn't necessarily a bad thing- we don't want a repeat of the Ewing trade. I'd rather keep him and let him expire/ opt out than make a bad deal (which seems to be the only ones on offer)
exactly..were always trading EXPIRING CONTRACs for avg players with longer contracts, and they throw in a 2nd rnd pick that's usually useless to sweeten the pot
Only way I'd trade Melo would be:
-The Clips for Griffin (not going to happen unless CP3 told them he wouldn't re-sign unless they did it)
-Boston for Jeberko (expiring), Amir (expiring) and something of value whether it be Smart, Crowder or a 1st- I'd be happy with any of that. Again, won't happen as I think he'd be a horrible fit with IT
Alan Hahn gave some updates:
-Said the meeting wasn't contentious
-Said that it's not just the Knicks that want him gone, but Melo's own people want him to go (not out of malice, but for his benefit)
Hahn wants him gone too, for his benefit and also because he just gives you 20pts a game at this point, sometimes 30. Also no defense- we need more than that.
This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
At this point we won't win with or without him (I don't blame him for all our woes), it would be nice to get something back for him at this point.
Really good Hahn and Humpty show today- recommend you listen to it.
knicks1248 wrote:smackeddog wrote:This isn't necessarily a bad thing- we don't want a repeat of the Ewing trade. I'd rather keep him and let him expire/ opt out than make a bad deal (which seems to be the only ones on offer)
exactly..were always trading EXPIRING CONTRACs for avg players with longer contracts, and they throw in a 2nd rnd pick that's usually useless to sweeten the pot
Yeah that's why I want the reverse! I want an expiring and if possible picks for Melo. It's the reverse of the problem you're saying the team always does. Melo's on a bad long-term deal.
reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
his defense is suspect but he is not a selfish player, up until phil, we were in the playoffs his first 3 yrs..so we were winning. Look at the suspect players around him. Too many question marks
knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
his defense is suspect but he is not a selfish player, up until phil, we were in the playoffs his first 3 yrs..so we were winning. Look at the suspect players around him. Too many question marks
+1
Don't pee on the avalanche of brilliance with facts.
knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
his defense is suspect but he is not a selfish player, up until phil, we were in the playoffs his first 3 yrs..so we were winning. Look at the suspect players around him. Too many question marks
There's no question that if Melo played a little better it would help lead this team to more wins. This team has lost several games that went down to the last seconds. If we had no chance in all these losses then you could just say it's the entire roster, but when it's close that's when your best players are supposed to make the right plays to secure the win. A team that has Melo, Rose and KP should be able to win more than half its games.
With regard to what Phil has done, the one year we had our pick Phil let it bottom out and we ended up with KP. You can't rebuild without LOSING but it seems that we did as good of a job as we could with the pick we had and even tho the last 2 seasons haven't been what was hoped it's still more of a positive future than it seems with the recent losing. If this season flops then it's backstopped by having our draft pick. One more solid draft could make all the difference for this franchise.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
his defense is suspect but he is not a selfish player, up until phil, we were in the playoffs his first 3 yrs..so we were winning. Look at the suspect players around him. Too many question marks
There's no question that if Melo played a little better it would help lead this team to more wins. This team has lost several games that went down to the last seconds. If we had no chance in all these losses then you could just say it's the entire roster, but when it's close that's when your best players are supposed to make the right plays to secure the win. A team that has Melo, Rose and KP should be able to win more than half its games.
With regard to what Phil has done, the one year we had our pick Phil let it bottom out and we ended up with KP. You can't rebuild without LOSING but it seems that we did as good of a job as we could with the pick we had and even tho the last 2 seasons haven't been what was hoped it's still more of a positive future than it seems with the recent losing. If this season flops then it's backstopped by having our draft pick. One more solid draft could make all the difference for this franchise.
One, what would you consider better play? Watched the last 3 minutes of Atlanta game for third time and focused on what Melo or anyone could have done. Melo hit bitgjumper to go up by 5. Did not let his man score. Hustled and switched well on D and moved the ball. All things people would have crucified him if he didn't do. Btw, this was after being inserted back in line up, and Knicks giving up lead.
Two, I love when peop;e say "one more solid draft" would make a huge difference" Yet ignore our picks since 1986. 29 Years is a long time. How many first round draft picks have we had in that time span that made us a playoff team? And what would have happened if Knicks picked Okafor, Russel? How are all the teams, mentioned earlier, with parenial high draft picks the last 5 yo 10 years, been doing? And what if KP didn't/doesnt pan out? Then will we ignore 31 years of hoping the savior is coming via the draft?
reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
Sounds like your repeating quotes from Berman on the Post but dont really watch the team. Specially the last two years. You mentioned "TEAM" in your post. How many players does it take to make a "TEAM" good? Who is having a really good year on the "TEAM"? Which free agents that are costing the "TEAM" $48.8 million this year are helping the "TEAM?
reub wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
Sounds like your repeating quotes from Berman on the Post but dont really watch the team. Specially the last two years. You mentioned "TEAM" in your post. How many players does it take to make a "TEAM" good? Who is having a really good year on the "TEAM"? Which free agents that are costing the "TEAM" $48.8 million this year are helping the "TEAM?
I watch every game.
Ok great. So let's continue a good discussion. What about questions? Fair inquiry.
smackeddog wrote:Alan Hahn gave some updates:-Said the meeting wasn't contentious
-Said that it's not just the Knicks that want him gone, but Melo's own people want him to go (not out of malice, but for his benefit)
Hahn wants him gone too, for his benefit and also because he just gives you 20pts a game at this point, sometimes 30. Also no defense- we need more than that.
PJ Carlisemo was on espn talking about it and he said exactly what i said in another thread that nobody really knows what was said in that meeting since it was only Melo and Phil in the room so people are just assuming what was said and that nobody knows if they decided a trade was a good option and Melo's coming up with a list, he said if that's what was said that they wouldn't come out and tell any of us that.
knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
his defense is suspect but he is not a selfish player, up until phil, we were in the playoffs his first 3 yrs..so we were winning. Look at the suspect players around him. Too many question marks
Not selfish? He's shooting worse than the worst shooting team in the league but yet he takes more shots than anyone on the team!
His the star of the team and the top scorer, he's always going to feel obligated to score
knicks1248 wrote:reub wrote:This team cannot win until Melo leaves. He plays selfish, slow basketball. And no defense.
his defense is suspect but he is not a selfish player, up until phil, we were in the playoffs his first 3 yrs..so we were winning. Look at the suspect players around him. Too many question marks
I agree.
Also, I think overall Melo has been a positive influence on KP. He takes pressure off KP, too.
