Knicks · When is it time to hold Phil accountable? (page 5)
fishmike wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:the only thing I am defending is Phil's right to say what he did... in regards to Melo's ball hogging. As for what Rosen wrote (I only read the snip) my take on that is it is what it is. That kind of critisim comes with the territory, and if stuff like that is cause for "high drama" or a reason for anything than THAT is baby shit.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:you really think what Phil said was humiliating? That really strikes me as you pumping up what happened to back your argument.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Boy... as most know I am a Melo supporter and have been over the years but this really strikes me as baby stuff. Phil never attributed the Knick's struggles to Melo or his ball hogging. He simply didnt deny the obvious. I mean is Melo the victim here? I mean what Phil said should be obvious to everyone with eyes that follows the team and that player. I see no problem with any of this.fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:why are you assuming he hasnt? I would assume the opposite... that way back when he resigned Melo he told him his expectations and probably told him again. Are you really assuming that the first time Melo is hearing these sentiments is from these press clippings? Does that really make sense?fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Why would Phil want Melo traded? I dont see that at all. I think Phil wants DadMelo. I think he wants a guy who will be simply be more rounded and move the ball. I think he like many see's Melo as stuck in some ways and if he could shake those could be a part of a huge next chapter. Phil wants Melo to succeed.. how best to go about that is up for debate thoughmartin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Melo did say something that was right on today.Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.
It's true, but it's also the same with every other team in the league- how often do you see their team presidents giving interviews? The media manufacture drama to get attention on their articles. A drama or a crisis will push interest and sales. Melo new what he was signing up for.
Earlier this season and last the media (and people on this board) said Phil needed to shut up (on twitter and on interviews), they said he undermined his coaches and players by speaking etc etc. Now they're blasting him for not speaking. And when he does give the occasional interview they blast him for whatever he says (the minor comments about Melo, the posse comment, etc).All the good and talented beat reporters have moved on, been promoted etc. All we are left with are the bitter bums who know this is their last gig- they are awful, I don't blame Phil for not talking to them.
I'm in this boat
There is a big difference IMO between Phil's passive aggressive tweets, comments towards players, and being out front when your starting PG goes AWOL. Being out front when one of your buddies writes a nasty article about your star, and that player has to track you down to find out what the deal is.
Sure I would prefer that Phil kept quiet when it comes to tweets and articles dissing players, but that doesn't mean I want to see him do it through one of his friends (Charley Rosen) instead. Phil has to strike the right balance, has yet to do that IMO.
Did Rosen say anything shocking about Melo? He has said exactly what we all have said for a long while now. Why is this shocking and why did it have to come thru Phil? A TON of other writers have said the same thing - that melo is a 1-dementional playler who doesn't play D and is losing his legs. Does is somehow carry more weight with Rosen?
Those other writers haven't been acknowledged by other veteran sportwriters to be a mouthpiece for Phil Jackson. I see no distinction between a passive aggressive tweet, and passive aggressive comments about Melo being over the hill, through his buddy Rosen.
If Phil wants to trade Melo he should be up front about it and tell him, instead of doing it through one of his friends. Seems more presidential.
If he really wants to see DadMelo more often, he should act more like PoppaPhil. If Phil thinks that Melo is holding on to the ball too long (no exactly breaking news), he should have spoken to him privately a long time ago instead of pointing out his star player's flaws to millions. How many team presidents do that publicly?
If Phil really wants melo to stay, he shouldn't be using reporter as a mouthpiece to criticize him. Be PoppaPhil, help Melo in private, not through twitter, not through one of his media friends.
When Melo was asked if Phil had ever brought up Melo's holding on to the ball too long before the interview, his answer was no. Melo said in so many words that he wished that Phil had spoken to him in private. Melo has made a concerted effort to keep the lines of communications open. Phil said in an interview that it was important to Melo, did not say that it was important to him.
I wouldnt call my boss humiliating me in front of millions of people "baby stuff". Don't care what profession it is. Again, how many team presidents let alone GMs, or even coaches, air their dirty laundy this way about someone with Melo's credentials?
If its "baby stuff" as you call it, why isnt everyone doing it? Is Melo the only person in this league who deserves this type of treatment? As I said, Melo made a point of keeping the lines of communication open, and for taking a proactive approach to their boss/employee relationship, he gets rewarded by in effect being called a ball stopper to the world, without going to him first.
That seems more like "baby stuff" to me. Melo was the adult in this situation, not Phil.
New York Knicks president Phil Jackson said Carmelo Anthony can play the "role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played" in their teams' triangle offenses, but he believes that Anthony sometimes breaks a team rule by holding on to the ball for too long.If those comments equate to "humiliating" than I would say you and Melo need to seek less public professions. Sure seems to me that he's saying he's a few bad habits away from playing the role of some of the best ever."Carmelo a lot of times wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule: If you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold it for three, four, five seconds, and then everybody comes to a stop," Jackson said in an interview with CBS Sports Network that aired Tuesday. "That is one of the things we work with. But he's adjusted to [the triangle], he knows what he can do and he's willing to see its success."
Jackson's comments were prompted by a question about whether Anthony can fit in the triangle offense. Jackson made it clear he believes Anthony can.
"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "It's a perfect spot for him to be in that isolated position on the weak side, because it's an overload offense and there's a weakside man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung."
Baby stuff is not being able to handle the comments above, but wanting to be the face of the franchise. He likes to talk about how he shoulders the blame but he cant handle the above? Sorry that doesnt add up to me at all.
What was so "baby like" about what Melo said once asked about what Rosen wrote? Your defending comments made by Rosen as no big deal but your saying Melo is acting like a baby by saying what exactly? Maybe I missed something.
Being called out in the press is part of the job that pays $25mm+ a year. Dealing with that is part of the job. As for Phil calling him out yes I certainly defended that. I posted what was said.
But all this is simple... to me Melo shouldnt be talking about drama and pouting about it. He should be answering every one of those questions with "we are not winning games or playing well. When that happens you are going to hear these things. Its up to me and up to us to play better. When that is happening this stuff will go away. Thats our focus."
OR
He can pout and make comments about the drama and all this other stuff.
Agree on possible responses and feel, for the most part he has done that. Still confused on why what Melo did is considered "Drama" like, "Baby like" or not $25 million dollar player like, Yet Hall of Fame $60M Phil's and his POSSE" comments were no big deal? Would agree both were no big deal. But can't have one minor reaction be different than another. Trying to bring up exact comment but think he said "we have to talk about it if he feels that way". But agree, better to move on and hope we start a big winning streak.
"Do your job the right way, then people will call you names you want to hear"
Melo doesn't want criticism, then be a leader, play defense, come in elite condition, don't be a heel in the press, set an example.
This team will never win a championship with Melo as the "Franchise Player" Never. NEVER.
Want to avoid public criticism as a pro athlete? AT MINIMUM, play the game the RIGHT WAY.
Put in the work to move well off the ball. Play team basketball. Mentor the younger players. Be an example with the press. Back up your GM and your coach and deal with the bloodshed behind closed doors.
Melo does not care about winning, he does not care about team basketball, he does not care about the Knicks, he does not care about playing the game the right way. He wants to be an "icon" , and tragically, if he played the game the right way, all that other "stuff" he wants would come naturally as a matter of course of being a true franchise player.
TripleThreat wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPxcJm-fz-4"Do your job the right way, then people will call you names you want to hear"
Melo doesn't want criticism, then be a leader, play defense, come in elite condition, don't be a heel in the press, set an example.
This team will never win a championship with Melo as the "Franchise Player" Never. NEVER.
Want to avoid public criticism as a pro athlete? AT MINIMUM, play the game the RIGHT WAY.
Put in the work to move well off the ball. Play team basketball. Mentor the younger players. Be an example with the press. Back up your GM and your coach and deal with the bloodshed behind closed doors.
Melo does not care about winning, he does not care about team basketball, he does not care about the Knicks, he does not care about playing the game the right way. He wants to be an "icon" , and tragically, if he played the game the right way, all that other "stuff" he wants would come naturally as a matter of course of being a true franchise player.
Good to see every hater sound bite all in one post. Thanks for coming.
TripleThreat wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPxcJm-fz-4"Do your job the right way, then people will call you names you want to hear"
Melo doesn't want criticism, then be a leader, play defense, come in elite condition, don't be a heel in the press, set an example.
This team will never win a championship with Melo as the "Franchise Player" Never. NEVER.
Want to avoid public criticism as a pro athlete? AT MINIMUM, play the game the RIGHT WAY.
Put in the work to move well off the ball. Play team basketball. Mentor the younger players. Be an example with the press. Back up your GM and your coach and deal with the bloodshed behind closed doors.
Melo does not care about winning, he does not care about team basketball, he does not care about the Knicks, he does not care about playing the game the right way. He wants to be an "icon" , and tragically, if he played the game the right way, all that other "stuff" he wants would come naturally as a matter of course of being a true franchise player.
Exhibit 1 on the knowledge of fans who are on the hater aid.....
TripleThreat wrote:
Noah needs to develop an effective three point shot.
He's not going to get any younger. He's not going to magically stop being an injury risk.
Extending his shooting range spaces the floor, it allows other players to work the post, it opens up the court by drawing out opposing bigs, it allows him to excel using his passing ability ( he's actually a very smart player and a capable passer) It would allow him to be some kind of offensive threat while focusing what energy he has left on defense.
Using a "Stretch 5" is very much in line with how Hornacek actually likes to run an offense.
He also becomes a safety valve when Melo dribbles for 15 seconds, gets triple teamed than uses a rare pass to get out of it to a guy behind the arc with 2 seconds left.
HofstraBball wrote: Noah a three point shooter? Ah...now it all makes sense. Here is a clue on why that may not be such a brain storm of an idea......watch him shoot a freee throw!!!!!!
