Knicks · Game thread: Harry & Lloyd vs Celtics (page 15)

By the way it was insane thinking putting Baker on Isiah Thomas..

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:Okay...I'll be the first one to say it, but Noah has to eventually be fazed out. When KP comes back, he will start at the 5, with Melo at the 4, and we can continue this lethal spread attack. With the way that Willy and Plumlee has played tonight, I don't really see Noah's role on this team going forward?

Haha, I mean I agree with you... but there have been like five threads the past two days saying to bench Noah.

Okay, so maybe I was not the first one. But what I'm saying to further add to the point...don't know what Noah's role is going forward? Willy needs his minutes; he's such a special offensive player and Plumlee is a young, stronger Noah with some offensive game.

Yeah, I agree completely - Willy was a revelation tonight.

Man, I mean I would love to see one game where a healthy KP and Willy start in the front court together.

Noah... I love the guy's spirit... but his game seems cooked. It's a problem. A big problem. He's got no place in the rotation. Not for the way this team needs to play to win.

Maybe we could trade him to Washington? I have no idea. It's a conundrum. But he has to be benched.

yellowboy90 wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Melo only 5-14fg for 13pts... and I didn't even notice. He may need to take a backseat to Rose, KP, Kuz, Willy, etc more often.

This. Did you notice much less Melo in the post ISO ball? He was the weak side catch and shoot player with Rose breaking down the defense. This should be his role going forward.

I must say this is one of the best 4th qtrs I have seen him play just because he was comfortable in his role as a space player since Rose had the hot hand. You didn't see any defensive lapse either and had a great deflection on isaiah to stop a layup in transition.

However, like I said earlier it is just one game and we know Rose will not shoot as well and KP is inconsistent too.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. This is the 2nd out of the last 3 games that we've seen this new approach and Jeff took it a step further. The changes make sense given the talent on the roster.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:Okay...I'll be the first one to say it, but Noah has to eventually be fazed out. When KP comes back, he will start at the 5, with Melo at the 4, and we can continue this lethal spread attack. With the way that Willy and Plumlee has played tonight, I don't really see Noah's role on this team going forward?

I get what you are saying but it is just one game.

COME ON MAN!!! You know in your heart this is the way this team has to play!

This was a lot different from the Bulls win. It seems like it could be sustainable.

Agree completely. Also the Bulls were missing Butler.

But this win felt very sustainable. The young guys and the bench shined.

Any win against Boston is a reason to celebrate!

Cheers, Knicks!!

You are not even close to being out of the wolves yet, but this is a beautiful win.

Good win. Lee off the bench was great. Willy and kuz have great futures here.

Knicks go small with Melo at the 4 to start...

they outrebound the Celtics 55 to 32!!

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:Okay...I'll be the first one to say it, but Noah has to eventually be fazed out. When KP comes back, he will start at the 5, with Melo at the 4, and we can continue this lethal spread attack. With the way that Willy and Plumlee has played tonight, I don't really see Noah's role on this team going forward?

I get what you are saying but it is just one game.

COME ON MAN!!! You know in your heart this is the way this team has to play!

This was a lot different from the Bulls win. It seems like it could be sustainable.

You think Rose hitting mid range jumpers at a high clip is sustainable? Play small is definitely the way to go though but I think it will be a mixture of success.

I just do not think we as fans can count on players on this team to be consistent.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Finally. This one feels a lot better than the Bulls win. Seems like the Knicks may have figured somethings out.

Yeah - unfortunately the biggest thing appears to be that starting Noah is a problem.

It's starting Noah with KP at 4 and Melo at 3. Spacing is tighter. Less room. Noah is not a threat or taken seriously by the defense unless he is under the basket. KP posts up more as a big 4 and isn't great at it, Melo posts up as a bigger 3. It's bully ball that we're not great at playing and not Horny's style at all.

Horny wants this team to play fast, smooth and to get quick shots off. That's been his objective from camp. I think he was just hoping that Noah would step up and that Phil's plan for the team would kick in. It hasn't.

As good as our defense was, it was our offense that got this done. In the 1st half we dropped 64 points I think. That's the only way this team can be good, They have to spread the floor.

The team can be even better with KP as a stretch 5, playing less minutes. He may play 28 minutes a game instead of 34 because of foul trouble/some match up issues defensively but we have guys to help with Willy, Plumlee and O'Quinn (and Noah).

If we give this rotation 20 games, and use KP as a stretch 5 starter, keep rewarding guys who play hard physical defense like Baker, Plumlee etc. with the Lee/Jennings/Willy/Holiday off the bench our bench is better as well, I think in 20 games time, we'll see why Horny is a good coach and this group is good enough to be a playoff team.

Who knows what happens when Noah comes back and KP as well. I don't know what Hornachek will do. I hope he sticks to his guns and goes with this new direction. We should have beaten Atlanta, and we won the game against Chicago. In my book we should be 3-0 since moving Melo to the 4 spot.

Lets see what happens tomorrow. Horny has to get them to see they can't take the night off. This is a winnable game against Washington as is Pheonix on Saturday. Will these guys play the same way effort wise? Lets see. I do know that Plumlee, Baker, Kuz, all play with energy on a consistent basis. They should be staples in our rotation, just to set a good vibe for the team energy wise. Hustle is just not an easy thing to get out of Rose, Melo, Lee and Jennings on a consistent basis.

This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

lance thomas is a bum....he has not been good at all this season

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

Lance fits in well - but he's a stretch 4 as well in my book. Not quick enough at 3. I like him a ton at 4. At full strength this would be my rotation

Porzingis (28) Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee (20)
Melo (30) Thomas (18)
Kuz (28) Lee (20)
Rose (32) Holiday (16)
Baker (24) Jennings (24)

Had we known all this from season start, and worked this plan from training camp, I fully believe we'd be top 4 in the East. Did people see how easy it was for Rose to get baskets with good spacing? How many open 3's are generated when you have players like Rose, Jennings, Melo who can draw attention. It's a travesty we're 19-24 because talent wise this team is only weaker than Cleveland and Toronto in my opinion.

Tonight Boston got a ton of layups. No rim protection for us. With KP as our 5 trust me that won't happen. He's one of the 10 best at challenging shots inside in the league.

No matter what happens playoffs wise, wins losses wise, we must play this way the rest of the season and develop KP at 5, give young players more minutes, let Melo accept reality he is a 4 now, and that Rose should be a full time 2 with Baker/Jennings at point. Even if we miss the playoffs by 4-5 wins it's ok because you developed your young players right for next year and Rose/Melo if they are back also played in more appropriate roles.

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

Kuz has already taken Lance's spot in the rotation, IMO.

Cartman718 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

lance thomas is a bum....he has not been good at all this season

He's been playing hurt... but yeah... he is hurting the team. The previous win streak from mid-November to mid-December both Lance and Noah were out. Now they're both out again and we have our best win of the season?

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

Lance fits in well - but he's a stretch 4 as well in my book. Not quick enough at 3. I like him a ton at 4. At full strength this would be my rotation

Porzingis (28) Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee (20)
Melo (30) Thomas (18)
Kuz (28) Lee (20)
Rose (32) Holiday (16)
Baker (24) Jennings (24)

Had we known all this from season start, and worked this plan from training camp, I fully believe we'd be top 4 in the East. Did people see how easy it was for Rose to get baskets with good spacing? How many open 3's are generated when you have players like Rose, Jennings, Melo who can draw attention. It's a travesty we're 19-24 because talent wise this team is only weaker than Cleveland and Toronto in my opinion.

I agree with most of this, but NO WAY Baker gets 24 minutes a night and splits time with BJ. Also, Holiday and Lee need a bump in minutes.

Just imagine...if we had won these games: Giannis buzzer beater loss; McConnell buzzer beater loss; Rose, Melo, Noah miss 1 point loss. Things would look a lot different. 22-21 record.

Great win. Kuz, Billy, Plumle all deserve time much more time

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

Lance fits in well - but he's a stretch 4 as well in my book. Not quick enough at 3. I like him a ton at 4. At full strength this would be my rotation

Porzingis (28) Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee (20)
Melo (30) Thomas (18)
Kuz (28) Lee (20)
Rose (32) Holiday (16)
Baker (24) Jennings (24)

Had we known all this from season start, and worked this plan from training camp, I fully believe we'd be top 4 in the East. Did people see how easy it was for Rose to get baskets with good spacing? How many open 3's are generated when you have players like Rose, Jennings, Melo who can draw attention. It's a travesty we're 19-24 because talent wise this team is only weaker than Cleveland and Toronto in my opinion.

Tonight Boston got a ton of layups. No rim protection for us. With KP as our 5 trust me that won't happen. He's one of the 10 best at challenging shots inside in the league.

No matter what happens playoffs wise, wins losses wise, we must play this way the rest of the season and develop KP at 5, give young players more minutes, let Melo accept reality he is a 4 now, and that Rose should be a full time 2 with Baker/Jennings at point. Even if we miss the playoffs by 4-5 wins it's ok because you developed your young players right for next year and Rose/Melo if they are back also played in more appropriate roles.

Lance cannot play fast at all...

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

Lance fits in well - but he's a stretch 4 as well in my book. Not quick enough at 3. I like him a ton at 4. At full strength this would be my rotation

Porzingis (28) Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee (20)
Melo (30) Thomas (18)
Kuz (28) Lee (20)
Rose (32) Holiday (16)
Baker (24) Jennings (24)

Had we known all this from season start, and worked this plan from training camp, I fully believe we'd be top 4 in the East. Did people see how easy it was for Rose to get baskets with good spacing? How many open 3's are generated when you have players like Rose, Jennings, Melo who can draw attention. It's a travesty we're 19-24 because talent wise this team is only weaker than Cleveland and Toronto in my opinion.

I agree with most of this, but NO WAY Baker gets 24 minutes a night and splits time with BJ. Also, Holiday and Lee need a bump in minutes.

Yeah, I somewhat agree with it... but Baker played 11min tonight which feels about right for him.

CLee played 37min, Holiday played 20min - I definitely want those two on the court a lot.

I don't know if I agree Lance is a good backup 4. I think I'd look for ways to move him this off-season. I don't think he fits Horny's style of ball.

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:This feels like it could be a season turning win.

Noah needs to stay on the bench. (Maybe Lance Thomas too?)

Lance fits in well - but he's a stretch 4 as well in my book. Not quick enough at 3. I like him a ton at 4. At full strength this would be my rotation

Porzingis (28) Willy/O'Quinn/Plumlee (20)
Melo (30) Thomas (18)
Kuz (28) Lee (20)
Rose (32) Holiday (16)
Baker (24) Jennings (24)

Had we known all this from season start, and worked this plan from training camp, I fully believe we'd be top 4 in the East. Did people see how easy it was for Rose to get baskets with good spacing? How many open 3's are generated when you have players like Rose, Jennings, Melo who can draw attention. It's a travesty we're 19-24 because talent wise this team is only weaker than Cleveland and Toronto in my opinion.

I agree with most of this, but NO WAY Baker gets 24 minutes a night and splits time with BJ. Also, Holiday and Lee need a bump in minutes.

Baker is tough as hell. I'm telling you, watch what he did defensively. He took complete pressure off Rose to defend Thomas. He is a decent outside shooter and runs the offense the way Horny wants. Rose can go into full time natural shooting guard mode. Chemistry with Kuz and Baker as starters is very good. And I want to develop players like those for next season. Don't care much about Lee getting extra minutes or Holiday, as Lee is a vet who has maxed his potential and Holiday could be lost in free agency (altough I would love to keep him).

we outrebounded them 57 to 33, when was the last time we had a 24 rebound advantage!?!?!?!?