Knicks · Reality check: no one wants melo (page 3)

Melo can still get buckets, set a franchise record for pts in a quarter the last game. Over the hill players usually dont do stuff like that. I doubt anyone here will argue the fact that Melo isnt the same player he was in his 20s. Doesnt mean that he isnt a tradeable asset (minus the NTC) to a team that needs a scoring punch.

GustavBahler wrote:Melo can still get buckets, set a franchise record for pts in a quarter the last game. Over the hill players usually dont do stuff like that. I doubt anyone here will argue the fact that Melo isnt the same player he was in his 20s. Doesnt mean that he isnt a tradeable asset (minus the NTC) to a team that needs a scoring punch.

Melo scoring is not a problem, problem is that he needs to take a backseat and he knows it, but KP is not yet ready to take a team over, so we are stuck in a middle, only hope Rose takes over this year and push us to playoff spots

Gudris wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Melo can still get buckets, set a franchise record for pts in a quarter the last game. Over the hill players usually dont do stuff like that. I doubt anyone here will argue the fact that Melo isnt the same player he was in his 20s. Doesnt mean that he isnt a tradeable asset (minus the NTC) to a team that needs a scoring punch.

Melo scoring is not a problem, problem is that he needs to take a backseat and he knows it, but KP is not yet ready to take a team over, so we are stuck in a middle, only hope Rose takes over this year and push us to playoff spots

My point is about Melo possibly playing on another team, wasnt about his role on the Knicks.

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:..... and he's been a damn good soldier

I disagree. When people cite Melo being a shotjacker, failing as a leader, failing to move well off the ball, failing to play basic team basketball, failing to play defense, failing at shot selection, failing to not stick his foot in his mouth in the press - it's an acknowledgement of his level of talent and capability.

A guy like Darrell Armstrong was not a highly touted player. He always put everything he had on the floor. He had limitations. He evolved into a very good player, albeit with drawbacks, because he put everything he had into it. If you asked Armstrong to be better on defense, well there's just things a player cannot do even if they want to do it, even if they exert full effort.

Melo has the raw talent to be one of the greatest players in NBA history. He's not a great defender because he chooses not to be. He has poor shot selection because he chooses to play that way. He doesn't move well off the ball because he doesn't put in the effort to do so. He consistently says stupid things in the press ( like panning the Knicks draft because they didn't pick Winslow or some other guy) because he wants to do it. He even did a large article spread talking about his biggest goal is being an "icon" and entrepreneur.

He does not make players around him better.

If he played the game the right way, and did so with everything he had, then that's that. He would get far less criticism.

He does not play the game the right way. And because he does not, the Knick will never win with him on the roster. He CHOOSES not to play the game the right way.

Win or lose, play the game the right way. That's a good soldier.

There are players with 1/1000th of Melo talent but have 10,000,000 times the heart and soul and relentless drive and whenever you see the comparison, it's actually pretty sad and tragic. When an undrafted player like Lin shows more leadership in two weeks than Melo does in his whole career, what does that say? And how did Melo react? By pouting, and not trying until he could kill off the coach that maximized said undrafted free agent who helped the team win. THE TEAM WIN. TEAM WINNING.

Melo cares more about the name on the back of the jersey than the team name on the front of the jersey. No one hates him, but a lot of people detest players who behave like this.

Play the game the right way, be relentless about being a team player and leader and all the things Melo wants like branding and movies and endorsements would all naturally come as well. That's the sad reality of Melo. He pursues things over winning that he'd get anyway if he gave everything to focus on winning.

All your post needs is some strings, a puppy and Mardy Collins. It has everything else. Well done!

HofstraBBall wrote:..... Btw, most that know anything about basketball, already have Melo as one of the greatest players in NBA history. It's called the HOF!

....Thing is, none of that changes reality.....

Here's the "reality"

Carmelo Anthony is an absolutely lethal 1 versus 1 isolation scorer. As an INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, he has zero offensive weaknesses. He can shoot long range, he can kill you in transition, he can finish at the rim, he can go right or left, he can post up, he can take his man one on one, he can take a double team one on one, he can create his own shot. He might be one of the best, if the very best pure offensive 1 versus 1 isolation player in the modern era.

None of that has jack sh!t to do with team basketball though. You win with TEAM BASKETBALL.

Melo could be a complete basketball player, dedicated to team ball and to the benefit of winning above all else. He simply chooses not to do it. Anyone who criticizes him for it, the same guys here say the same things, that it's a problem with the person pointing it out.

Yes, it's their fault Melo is a ball stopper who jacks up bad shots and won't play defense.

It is difficult, almost impossible, to have a team have a player like Melo ( who is basically a historic level 6th man just for offensive punch) in the modern salary cap era and balance him out with other practical needs ( rim protection, wing defense) at practical costs and contend for a championship. .

The truly great players bring more answers than questions to their franchises.

Melo creates more questions than answers. Each roster decision has to focus on trying to work around issues that are created because Melo simply decides he won't do X or Y. He simply decides he won't play defense or put in the dogged work to be elite at it.

He's not a leader. He's not a team basketball player. He's a mercenary without the social skills to even pretend like he's something else. He's a great individual offensive talent, probably historic level, but that only adds to the tragedy that he simply cares about other things more than winning.

Blame the owner, blame the GM, blame the coach, blame the team mates, blame injury, blame circumstance, the "reality" is that he is the common denominator in his lack of playing the game the right way.

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:..... Btw, most that know anything about basketball, already have Melo as one of the greatest players in NBA history. It's called the HOF!

....Thing is, none of that changes reality.....

Here's the "reality"

Carmelo Anthony is an absolutely lethal 1 versus 1 isolation scorer. As an INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, he has zero offensive weaknesses. He can shoot long range, he can kill you in transition, he can finish at the rim, he can go right or left, he can post up, he can take his man one on one, he can take a double team one on one, he can create his own shot. He might be one of the best, if the very best pure offensive 1 versus 1 isolation player in the modern era.

None of that has jack sh!t to do with team basketball though. You win with TEAM BASKETBALL.

Melo could be a complete basketball player, dedicated to team ball and to the benefit of winning above all else. He simply chooses not to do it. Anyone who criticizes him for it, the same guys here say the same things, that it's a problem with the person pointing it out.

Yes, it's their fault Melo is a ball stopper who jacks up bad shots and won't play defense.

It is difficult, almost impossible, to have a team have a player like Melo ( who is basically a historic level 6th man just for offensive punch) in the modern salary cap era and balance him out with other practical needs ( rim protection, wing defense) at practical costs and contend for a championship. .

The truly great players bring more answers than questions to their franchises.

Melo creates more questions than answers. Each roster decision has to focus on trying to work around issues that are created because Melo simply decides he won't do X or Y. He simply decides he won't play defense or put in the dogged work to be elite at it.

He's not a leader. He's not a team basketball player. He's a mercenary without the social skills to even pretend like he's something else. He's a great individual offensive talent, probably historic level, but that only adds to the tragedy that he simply cares about other things more than winning.

Blame the owner, blame the GM, blame the coach, blame the team mates, blame injury, blame circumstance, the "reality" is that he is the common denominator in his lack of playing the game the right way.

For Knicks this is 3rd tragedy in a row... Huston, Marbs, Melo... and no end in site...

arkrud wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:..... Btw, most that know anything about basketball, already have Melo as one of the greatest players in NBA history. It's called the HOF!

....Thing is, none of that changes reality.....

Here's the "reality"

Carmelo Anthony is an absolutely lethal 1 versus 1 isolation scorer. As an INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, he has zero offensive weaknesses. He can shoot long range, he can kill you in transition, he can finish at the rim, he can go right or left, he can post up, he can take his man one on one, he can take a double team one on one, he can create his own shot. He might be one of the best, if the very best pure offensive 1 versus 1 isolation player in the modern era.

None of that has jack sh!t to do with team basketball though. You win with TEAM BASKETBALL.

Melo could be a complete basketball player, dedicated to team ball and to the benefit of winning above all else. He simply chooses not to do it. Anyone who criticizes him for it, the same guys here say the same things, that it's a problem with the person pointing it out.

Yes, it's their fault Melo is a ball stopper who jacks up bad shots and won't play defense.

It is difficult, almost impossible, to have a team have a player like Melo ( who is basically a historic level 6th man just for offensive punch) in the modern salary cap era and balance him out with other practical needs ( rim protection, wing defense) at practical costs and contend for a championship. .

The truly great players bring more answers than questions to their franchises.

Melo creates more questions than answers. Each roster decision has to focus on trying to work around issues that are created because Melo simply decides he won't do X or Y. He simply decides he won't play defense or put in the dogged work to be elite at it.

He's not a leader. He's not a team basketball player. He's a mercenary without the social skills to even pretend like he's something else. He's a great individual offensive talent, probably historic level, but that only adds to the tragedy that he simply cares about other things more than winning.

Blame the owner, blame the GM, blame the coach, blame the team mates, blame injury, blame circumstance, the "reality" is that he is the common denominator in his lack of playing the game the right way.

For Knicks this is 3rd tragedy in a row... Huston, Marbs, Melo... and no end in site...

Amare, McDyess, Francis, virtually every medium or large contract player we've ever had.

A more than decent game again by Melo; 31 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists. But another defeat, nothing in the clutch (zero points in the 4th!) and the latest in a long line of missed final shots. It's never going to happen.

I'm old school. I remember bird and magic having a will to win. If it was scoring great. A pass a steal a rebound. They did it

Melo is a talented player but we and the team need to stop pretending he is more than he is.

E.g. Guy is 0 for everything in 4th but we give him ball to launch a 3 to end the game. I guess it's an improvement bc at least KP wasn't wide open under the rim

Chandler wrote:I'm old school. I remember bird and magic having a will to win. If it was scoring great. A pass a steal a rebound. They did it

Melo is a talented player but we and the team need to stop pretending he is more than he is.

E.g. Guy is 0 for everything in 4th but we give him ball to launch a 3 to end the game. I guess it's an improvement bc at least KP wasn't wide open under the rim

Yeah and the previous shot by Rose was brutal. Baker set a great screen. Melo got a good look.

Chandler wrote:I'm old school. I remember bird and magic having a will to win. If it was scoring great. A pass a steal a rebound. They did it

Melo is a talented player but we and the team need to stop pretending he is more than he is.

E.g. Guy is 0 for everything in 4th but we give him ball to launch a 3 to end the game. I guess it's an improvement bc at least KP wasn't wide open under the rim

The game is a little different when you are playing with 10 hall of farmers than playing with zero..

Didn't Melo hit two game winning 4th quarter shots this year already?

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:..... Btw, most that know anything about basketball, already have Melo as one of the greatest players in NBA history. It's called the HOF!

....Thing is, none of that changes reality.....

Here's the "reality"

Carmelo Anthony is an absolutely lethal 1 versus 1 isolation scorer. As an INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, he has zero offensive weaknesses. He can shoot long range, he can kill you in transition, he can finish at the rim, he can go right or left, he can post up, he can take his man one on one, he can take a double team one on one, he can create his own shot. He might be one of the best, if the very best pure offensive 1 versus 1 isolation player in the modern era.

None of that has jack sh!t to do with team basketball though. You win with TEAM BASKETBALL.

Melo could be a complete basketball player, dedicated to team ball and to the benefit of winning above all else. He simply chooses not to do it. Anyone who criticizes him for it, the same guys here say the same things, that it's a problem with the person pointing it out.

Yes, it's their fault Melo is a ball stopper who jacks up bad shots and won't play defense.

It is difficult, almost impossible, to have a team have a player like Melo ( who is basically a historic level 6th man just for offensive punch) in the modern salary cap era and balance him out with other practical needs ( rim protection, wing defense) at practical costs and contend for a championship. .

The truly great players bring more answers than questions to their franchises.

Melo creates more questions than answers. Each roster decision has to focus on trying to work around issues that are created because Melo simply decides he won't do X or Y. He simply decides he won't play defense or put in the dogged work to be elite at it.

He's not a leader. He's not a team basketball player. He's a mercenary without the social skills to even pretend like he's something else. He's a great individual offensive talent, probably historic level, but that only adds to the tragedy that he simply cares about other things more than winning.

Blame the owner, blame the GM, blame the coach, blame the team mates, blame injury, blame circumstance, the "reality" is that he is the common denominator in his lack of playing the game the right way.

This almost sum up Melo NBA career.

Time for a stat.....this is why we pay him the Max after all......!

Carmelo Anthony is now shooting 4-29 in the last 10 seconds of games which the Knicks are losing by 3 or less or tying, dating back to 2012-13.

Brutal. Yet we still give him the ball and hope things will change.

Melo needs to move to a secondary role. It is time. You are a scorer but you are not clutch at all anymore. Last shot should never go to him

Cartman718 wrote:Melo needs to move to a secondary role. It is time. You are a scorer but you are not clutch at all anymore. Last shot should never go to him

I think what a lot of guys seem to miss is being in a "secondary role" usually means being able to play off the ball.

Does Melo play well off the ball. He does not. He is a ball dominant player. Which would be fine if he could do both, either create his own shot with the ball in his hands OR be able to contribute without the ball in his hands. A classic example of this kind of duality was Joe Dumars, one of the best wings the NBA has ever seen.

Melo has more in common with Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson than he does with Joe Dumars.

For Melo to succeed as the non franchise player, he needs to play on a 2nd unit designed to do EVERYTHING ELSE but score and let him score all he wants in isolation. He needs a lineup that can defend 4 on 5 and offer rim protection, perimeter defense on the wing and elite three point shooting to bail him out when he overdribbles and burns out the clock and he throws a pass giving his teammate half a second to launch a three ball.

Again, he brings more QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS

He does not have the desire or will to subvert his natural game and current game into said "Secondary Role"

Boston is basically the only team that a deal can be done where the team doesnt lose core pieces and we get something valuable back

crzymdups wrote:Washington could be a legit contender if they could upgrade from Markieff Morris to Melo.

I believe the Clippers would take Melo in a heartbeat if they could do a trade not involving Blake.

Boston would probably make a trade for Melo right now depending on their assets they'd have to give.

Memphis would take Melo in a heartbeat.

There would be teams who would want Melo. I just named four playoffs teams who would be a step or two better with Melo.

Did you see him score 25pts in the second quarter tonight? Not many players can do that. It's still a valuable skill.

Should the final possessions of a game be Iso-Melo when we have Rose and KP? Of course not.

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:I'm old school. I remember bird and magic having a will to win. If it was scoring great. A pass a steal a rebound. They did it

Melo is a talented player but we and the team need to stop pretending he is more than he is.

E.g. Guy is 0 for everything in 4th but we give him ball to launch a 3 to end the game. I guess it's an improvement bc at least KP wasn't wide open under the rim

The game is a little different when you are playing with 10 hall of farmers than playing with zero..

Didn't Melo hit two game winning 4th quarter shots this year already?

Be did and o e of after he missed last shot at end of regulation w KP wide open under the rim

Isiah Thomas of Boston leads the league (or if he slipped he's still at the top) in 4th quarter points

At the end of regulation they ran a beautiful play to use him as a decoy and terry rosier of all people gets the call for game tying 3 to force OT

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:I'm old school. I remember bird and magic having a will to win. If it was scoring great. A pass a steal a rebound. They did it

Melo is a talented player but we and the team need to stop pretending he is more than he is.

E.g. Guy is 0 for everything in 4th but we give him ball to launch a 3 to end the game. I guess it's an improvement bc at least KP wasn't wide open under the rim

The game is a little different when you are playing with 10 hall of farmers than playing with zero..

Didn't Melo hit two game winning 4th quarter shots this year already?

Be did and o e of after he missed last shot at end of regulation w KP wide open under the rim

Isiah Thomas of Boston leads the league (or if he slipped he's still at the top) in 4th quarter points

At the end of regulation they ran a beautiful play to use him as a decoy and terry rosier of all people gets the call for game tying 3 to force OT

Yeah good example, I got one...Knicks ran a play last game and Melo got into the lane and make a beautiful pass to Lee with six seconds left to tie and the 40% shooter from three passed up the shot..A week ago Rose drove the baseline and passed the ball to a WIDE OPEN KP who missed the basket by at least two feet..Did you post about those..

Many reducible Melo for not shooting the Lee shot..Melo got more ridicule then Lee..
Obviously you can't speak badly of KP so...

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:..... Btw, most that know anything about basketball, already have Melo as one of the greatest players in NBA history. It's called the HOF!

....Thing is, none of that changes reality.....

Here's the "reality"

Carmelo Anthony is an absolutely lethal 1 versus 1 isolation scorer. As an INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, he has zero offensive weaknesses. He can shoot long range, he can kill you in transition, he can finish at the rim, he can go right or left, he can post up, he can take his man one on one, he can take a double team one on one, he can create his own shot. He might be one of the best, if the very best pure offensive 1 versus 1 isolation player in the modern era.

None of that has jack sh!t to do with team basketball though. You win with TEAM BASKETBALL.

Melo could be a complete basketball player, dedicated to team ball and to the benefit of winning above all else. He simply chooses not to do it. Anyone who criticizes him for it, the same guys here say the same things, that it's a problem with the person pointing it out.

Yes, it's their fault Melo is a ball stopper who jacks up bad shots and won't play defense.

It is difficult, almost impossible, to have a team have a player like Melo ( who is basically a historic level 6th man just for offensive punch) in the modern salary cap era and balance him out with other practical needs ( rim protection, wing defense) at practical costs and contend for a championship. .

The truly great players bring more answers than questions to their franchises.

Melo creates more questions than answers. Each roster decision has to focus on trying to work around issues that are created because Melo simply decides he won't do X or Y. He simply decides he won't play defense or put in the dogged work to be elite at it.

He's not a leader. He's not a team basketball player. He's a mercenary without the social skills to even pretend like he's something else. He's a great individual offensive talent, probably historic level, but that only adds to the tragedy that he simply cares about other things more than winning.

Blame the owner, blame the GM, blame the coach, blame the team mates, blame injury, blame circumstance, the "reality" is that he is the common denominator in his lack of playing the game the right way.

I dont see you as a HATER, like others. Just think you have the other disease..."Expectation Fog" You Expected Melo to have won more than 30 games with the "TEAM" he was handed last two years? That was where my "People dont know anything about basketball" statement came from. You cant tell me that people that know or have played basketball at college level or higher (People that know basketball) would say he should have won with that squad. But just for shits and giggles...Can you tell me whio was on his "TEAM" when this expectation was established?

TripleThreat wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Melo needs to move to a secondary role. It is time. You are a scorer but you are not clutch at all anymore. Last shot should never go to him

I think what a lot of guys seem to miss is being in a "secondary role" usually means being able to play off the ball.

Does Melo play well off the ball. He does not. He is a ball dominant player. Which would be fine if he could do both, either create his own shot with the ball in his hands OR be able to contribute without the ball in his hands. A classic example of this kind of duality was Joe Dumars, one of the best wings the NBA has ever seen.

Melo has more in common with Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson than he does with Joe Dumars.

For Melo to succeed as the non franchise player, he needs to play on a 2nd unit designed to do EVERYTHING ELSE but score and let him score all he wants in isolation. He needs a lineup that can defend 4 on 5 and offer rim protection, perimeter defense on the wing and elite three point shooting to bail him out when he overdribbles and burns out the clock and he throws a pass giving his teammate half a second to launch a three ball.

Again, he brings more QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS

He does not have the desire or will to subvert his natural game and current game into said "Secondary Role"

I don't think that's a fair assessment around him being unable to play off the ball and still provide valuable minutes. I feel that he has actually done that ever since he got moved to the four with Hornacek's run and gun spaced offense. If you look at his efficiency for the last few games, he has the early showing that he can score several points and limited shots provided he gets the spacing. This is exactly what we had when Noah was out.

The problem is not Carmelo trying to be all about offense, as much as Noah not being at all about post defense. You make KP be the primary player and make Carmelo a scorer as opposed to a clutch player and we would have a much better record