Knicks · Since the @Phoenix loss 12/13, there have been SEVEN losses that basically game down to last possession (page 1)
That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107
All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
KP/Melo/KOQ/Noah/Willy are all 4/5s. Melo we could hide at the 3 for 10 minutes a game. I would focus on keeping Melo/KP to 30 minutes a game. If Melo gets 10 at SF and 20 at PF that leaves 46 minutes for the Noah/Willy/KOQ which feels about right. Its a clumsy roster and its not going to be a clean rotation. We have a glut of bigs and none I would be an advocate of moving (at this time)
I'm not ready for the tank yet. Still think we can finish out around .500. Seeds 6-8 are all right there, +/- a half game. I'd rather get our young guys a taste of the post season, especially with everyone talking about how deep this draft is.
fishmike wrote:The one premis I 100% agree with is where Noah gets used. The one thing that jumps out at me is Noah is one of the best ball moving bigs in the league and is still one of the best offensive rebounders. Yet he starts with a group that plays tons of iso and Melo/Rose/KP all take their turns in being ball stoppers. Not all bad, but a terrible fit for Noah. Willy or KOQ (who has earned minutes and has done nothing to merit losing them) are better fits with that line up.KP/Melo/KOQ/Noah/Willy are all 4/5s. Melo we could hide at the 3 for 10 minutes a game. I would focus on keeping Melo/KP to 30 minutes a game. If Melo gets 10 at SF and 20 at PF that leaves 46 minutes for the Noah/Willy/KOQ which feels about right. Its a clumsy roster and its not going to be a clean rotation. We have a glut of bigs and none I would be an advocate of moving (at this time)
I agree with that. Really what needs to happen is that Noah needs to sit or play in small doses with the bench.
One thing I've noticed about Noah and KP playing together is that Noah takes the high post and rarely moves from there - but he also rarely needs to be guarded because he's not gonna shoot a jumper, he's gonna pass or drive, so you can help off him if he doesn't have the ball. Knicks would need to find him more on dives to the basket to get his man to respect him.
But he also takes up that high post... which is where KP likes to cut through and get his little mid-range jumper going. When noah is out there, KP almost never gets a good shot from the Free Throw line area. I mention this because a few games the first time KP is on the floor without Noah, usually the second quarter, he tends to get some shots around that area.
I think Noah is just a bad fit overall for this team. I hate to say it, I wanted to sign him... but he doesn't seem to be the right fit on the floor.
MaTT4281 wrote:Don't even need to win all those games. If we even went 3-4 out of those heart breakers, we're 23-23.I'm not ready for the tank yet. Still think we can finish out around .500. Seeds 6-8 are all right there, +/- a half game. I'd rather get our young guys a taste of the post season, especially with everyone talking about how deep this draft is.
Yeah, not saying they'd win them all... just showing it to illustrate that they are CLOSE.
Also, I think early in the season they were something like 5-1 or 6-0 in games decided by 5pts or less... it might just be a case of our luck flipping back the other way.
But I think there are just some small tweaks they can make to fix things.
Though it is kinda crazy to me that FOUR of these close losses happened in the past two weeks after the Rose AWOL. I think that shook up the team a little, too. Hopefully they're coming out of that.
crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
great post. I was thinking about this but had no idea it was this many. Many of these cases we blew big leads. We need to buckle down and hold people accountable and play 48 minutes
lapses on defense; sloppy possesions with poor shot selection and turnovers. Just clean up a couple of those and where would be. And as I've said before one bad call (i.e., blowing a whistle when it shouldn't or vice versa -- and resulting in 2FTs) is a 1.5-1.6 point swing on average. Refs in NBA much bigger influence than any other sport
First step is take your post and include on team bulletin board. Holy crap what a different season this would be.
crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
fishmike wrote:The one premis I 100% agree with is where Noah gets used. The one thing that jumps out at me is Noah is one of the best ball moving bigs in the league and is still one of the best offensive rebounders. Yet he starts with a group that plays tons of iso and Melo/Rose/KP all take their turns in being ball stoppers. Not all bad, but a terrible fit for Noah. Willy or KOQ (who has earned minutes and has done nothing to merit losing them) are better fits with that line up.KP/Melo/KOQ/Noah/Willy are all 4/5s. Melo we could hide at the 3 for 10 minutes a game. I would focus on keeping Melo/KP to 30 minutes a game. If Melo gets 10 at SF and 20 at PF that leaves 46 minutes for the Noah/Willy/KOQ which feels about right. Its a clumsy roster and its not going to be a clean rotation. We have a glut of bigs and none I would be an advocate of moving (at this time)
not disagreeing with you, but it's not intuitive to me. I thought you would want a good reboundder who doesn't need the ball to couple with chuckers. what am i missing
smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
franco12 wrote:smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.
Also this,
The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him. Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.
#FreeWilly
franco12 wrote:smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
Meh! I don't agree that the Knicks deserved to lose those games! All that matters is being in position to win at the end. If the Knicks are able to battle back in games that shows they have more potential to play better and it seems Lineups and Rotations are very important to the huge swings this team goes thru in games.
The Knicks have been battling themselves in these games and if Jeff can get the right combination and rotation pattern this team can play much better.
crzymdups wrote:franco12 wrote:smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.
Also this,
The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.
Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.
#FreeWilly
These stats just confirmed the EYE TEST regarding Willy! More often than not Willy has an immediate positive impact on the team. He's dynamic on both ends and he's getting better.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:franco12 wrote:smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.
Also this,
The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.
Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.
#FreeWilly
These stats just confirmed the EYE TEST regarding Willy! More often than not Willy has an immediate positive impact on the team. He's dynamic on both ends and he's getting better.
I agree - but I think you both know Willy would be exposed somewhat if he were starting and playing more minutes.
He brings energy and enthusiasm and smarts.
If he doesn't start, then he should be the first player off the bench, and he should get regular opportunities to play.
I get it if it's a match up or he has an off night - but he should get into every game. What's up Jeff?
franco12 wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:franco12 wrote:smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.
Also this,
The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.
Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.
#FreeWilly
These stats just confirmed the EYE TEST regarding Willy! More often than not Willy has an immediate positive impact on the team. He's dynamic on both ends and he's getting better.
I agree - but I think you both know Willy would be exposed somewhat if he were starting and playing more minutes.
He brings energy and enthusiasm and smarts.
If he doesn't start, then he should be the first player off the bench, and he should get regular opportunities to play.
I get it if it's a match up or he has an off night - but he should get into every game. What's up Jeff?
He should definitely be playing 20-24min. It's a tricky situation with Noah's minutes and pride and ego... maybe Jeff is handling the transition right... though I honestly feel it has cost them some games...
Our point differential (which is more reflective of the level the team is playing at than W-L is) is -100. -100 teams don't go 27-18.
Our actual record is 20-26 and basketball reference has our expected record at 19-27.
You are right though that the team has not played nearly as bad in the last 22 games as its 6-16 record. However, it did not play nearly as well at the 14-10 record in the first 24 games. Altogether, we're a legit low to mid .400s team.
10 close wins
12 close loses
16 Blowout loses (mostly from solid teams)
Typical mediocre team... no playoffs...
We cannot compete with any of contending teams.
Cannot even keep it close with them.
arkrud wrote:8 Blowout wins (mostly junk teams)
10 close wins
12 close loses
16 Blowout loses (mostly from solid teams)Typical mediocre team... no playoffs...
We cannot compete with any of contending teams.
Cannot even keep it close with them.
Meh! This season wasn't about winning a title to begin with. Just make the playoffs and hope for a good showing. This team still has plenty of upside. They have not peaked and I can see them going on a run at some point. With just a little luck or better execution they'd have a better record.
On any given number night, if they get hot, this team can go up several levels from where they are now. It's a flawed but talented team. If they ever get their chemistry right they can be very good.
arkrud wrote:8 Blowout wins (mostly junk teams)
10 close wins
12 close loses
16 Blowout loses (mostly from solid teams)Typical mediocre team... no playoffs...
We cannot compete with any of contending teams.
Cannot even keep it close with them.
That's a fair assessment. If you assume the close wins/losses will stay close or even out... the blow out losses outpacing the blow out wins by 2 to 1 is what will bury us.
I keep being on the fence between hoping for a playoff run or hoping for a complete collapse and good draft pick. I think the latter will be better in the long run. And even the short run - if we draft a good rookie, we can much better as soon as next year.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:franco12 wrote:smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.
12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.
I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.
Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.
These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.
It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!
I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.
I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:
http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/2016121...
We were down big until late in that game.
Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.
My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.
Also this,
The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.
Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.
#FreeWilly
These stats just confirmed the EYE TEST regarding Willy! More often than not Willy has an immediate positive impact on the team. He's dynamic on both ends and he's getting better.
I love Willy and want him to start, but I wouldn't read much into these stats, based on the amount of his PT. The stats are probably more noise than anything he is doing right now.