Knicks · Last Stand: fight or flight (page 13)

Rose said it's hard to guard one on one in this league..You are supposed to funnel the player to a certain spot..

holfresh wrote:Rose asked if front office, management, coaches and players are on the same page..Rose said he doesn't get involved with management issues..He has too much on his plate right now..

Rose said it's hard to guard one on one in this league..You are supposed to funnel the player to a certain spot..

That's the Thibs method... Thibs is pretty good at that.

Opposing offenses keep forcing switches and putting KP on an island.

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

I actually agree with this. I think the players voted to ditch the Triangle in that November meeting. They went on a run after that... but the offense has lost more and more structure as its gone on. I'm not sure what Hornacek is telling them, but I also strongly believe that Phil threw Hornacek under the bus early in the season when he made Rambis the defensive guy and also again when Rose left and wasn't suspended. Hornacek has no authority left with these guys. So Melo and Rose just break the offense and go 1 on 1 or try to make plays on their own, KP gets frozen out... it's a mess.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

I actually agree with this. I think the players voted to ditch the Triangle in that November meeting. They went on a run after that... but the offense has lost more and more structure as its gone on. I'm not sure what Hornacek is telling them, but I also strongly believe that Phil threw Hornacek under the bus early in the season when he made Rambis the defensive guy and also again when Rose left and wasn't suspended. Hornacek has no authority left with these guys. So Melo and Rose just break the offense and go 1 on 1 or try to make plays on their own, KP gets frozen out... it's a mess.

Rose's interview was somewhat telling..He basically answered like stuff is going down internally and he isn't getting involved..I took it to mean the Melo trade but it could be deeper..

But you are right, Melo looks he is trying to carry the team..Hornacek has been defending him lately..His post game interview and comments about Melo was interesting too..

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

I talk about this all the time...if you don't feel your effort on the court is going to get you rewarded at times, your energy level will decrease. I see too much standing around when Rose and Anthony have the ball- some of this comes from continually not getting the ball when you do get into position, but also because there is a lot of deference given to Melo and Rose because of their success as NBA players- In essence, players are willing to let Rose and Melo do everything on offense during crunch time.

nixluva always painting the rosy picture for a franchise covered in feces for over a decade.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

I actually agree with this. I think the players voted to ditch the Triangle in that November meeting. They went on a run after that... but the offense has lost more and more structure as its gone on. I'm not sure what Hornacek is telling them, but I also strongly believe that Phil threw Hornacek under the bus early in the season when he made Rambis the defensive guy and also again when Rose left and wasn't suspended. Hornacek has no authority left with these guys. So Melo and Rose just break the offense and go 1 on 1 or try to make plays on their own, KP gets frozen out... it's a mess.

holfresh wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

I actually agree with this. I think the players voted to ditch the Triangle in that November meeting. They went on a run after that... but the offense has lost more and more structure as its gone on. I'm not sure what Hornacek is telling them, but I also strongly believe that Phil threw Hornacek under the bus early in the season when he made Rambis the defensive guy and also again when Rose left and wasn't suspended. Hornacek has no authority left with these guys. So Melo and Rose just break the offense and go 1 on 1 or try to make plays on their own, KP gets frozen out... it's a mess.

Rose's interview was somewhat telling..He basically answered like stuff is going down internally and he isn't getting involved..I took it to mean the Melo trade but it could be deeper..

But you are right, Melo looks he is trying to carry the team..Hornacek has been defending him lately..His post game interview and comments about Melo was interesting too..

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

Yet there have been moments, even against decent teams, where we've looked fine, though, and this is the most frustrating thing of all.

I talk about this all the time...if you don't feel your effort on the court is going to get you rewarded at times, your energy level will decrease. I see too much standing around when Rose and Anthony have the ball- some of this comes from continually not getting the ball when you do get into position, but also because there is a lot of deference given to Melo and Rose because of their success as NBA players- In essence, players are willing to let Rose and Melo do everything on offense during crunch time.

This is important. Guys have to touch the ball

It helps their energy and defense

Having said that what's up w the crazy switches w Melo on a pg. not good

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

The team is mentally screwed...I might be wrong but I think training camp and preseason sets the tone for the entire year..The offense and defense they practiced in training camp isn't what they are playing now...

There is a philosophical struggle right now within the organization..I saw the triangle early in the game..Rambis is still weighing in with Phil's philosophy while Hornacek is weighing in with his..Phil went radio silent after the big meeting and haven't been heard from since...That's when the Knicks changed their style...

I wish there was more dialogue from that meeting..I would love to know Melo's role as he would assume the leadership in such a meeting..Have you noticed Melo keep saying he just want to be there for the guys in the locker room..KP issues looks mental too..

Now this is just me brainstorming..But there is more going on here than just basketball..

Yet there have been moments, even against decent teams, where we've looked fine, though, and this is the most frustrating thing of all.

I talk about this all the time...if you don't feel your effort on the court is going to get you rewarded at times, your energy level will decrease. I see too much standing around when Rose and Anthony have the ball- some of this comes from continually not getting the ball when you do get into position, but also because there is a lot of deference given to Melo and Rose because of their success as NBA players- In essence, players are willing to let Rose and Melo do everything on offense during crunch time.

But at some point you can't blame everything on just two guys..At some point you have to look in the mirror..There have been instances where guys got opportunities in crunch time and just froze..Lee had not interest taking a game tying shot..KP missed a game winnner by a mile...You can certa Not spread the blame around but it doesn't work like that in NY..

holfresh wrote:Also..Is KP spooked thinking he is going to be the man when Melo is gone?..All eyes will be on him...

KP isn't a spooked type.
He may fail.
But the kid is tough as nails. Both mentally and physically

He needs more time though he should be a number 2 not a number 1. We should unload Rose or Melo and allow KP to be a number 2. He is not ready to be the man. I'm actually fine with keeping Melo but then we must make him point forward and deal Rose. As a duo Rose and Melo have no chemistry and don't make each other better. It's just them taking turns. Horrible game plan. One has to go and I like Melo more than Rose.

nyknickzingis wrote: As a duo Rose and Melo have no chemistry and don't make each other better. It's just them taking turns.

This is the part that really spoke to me. When this happens Melo stops being a facilitator which we've seen he has the capability of doing, and the result is no one on the team makes plays for other people.

WaltLongmire wrote:17 Assists for 39 baskets...you guys can reach your own conclusions about our offense.

We have been hovering around the 21 assists or less mark for a while now. 21...if we have more attempts :) otherwise yeah...16-17-18

holfresh wrote:KP issues looks mental too..

I agree 100%. KP looks like he has the yips.

Andrew wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote: As a duo Rose and Melo have no chemistry and don't make each other better. It's just them taking turns.

This is the part that really spoke to me. When this happens Melo stops being a facilitator which we've seen he has the capability of doing, and the result is no one on the team makes plays for other people.

I agree and I think this is on Rose. I have seen Melo play with flow and as part of the team. Rose MVP days is so ingrained in his basketball DNA that he doesn't know how to be a team basketball player in offense. Its all carry the team on my back kind of play.

NYKBocker wrote:

Andrew wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote: As a duo Rose and Melo have no chemistry and don't make each other better. It's just them taking turns.

This is the part that really spoke to me. When this happens Melo stops being a facilitator which we've seen he has the capability of doing, and the result is no one on the team makes plays for other people.

I agree and I think this is on Rose. I have seen Melo play with flow and as part of the team. Rose MVP days is so ingrained in his basketball DNA that he doesn't know how to be a team basketball player in offense. Its all carry the team on my back kind of play.

I think bigger things are going on...It seems like the players against the front office...Some players can handle it and others can't...I'll try to post a few player interviews if I can as the medium isn't always youtube, and specifically Melo's interviews and you can see how he words his answers...Melo can handle it, so he powers thru and tries to carry the team...

holfresh wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Andrew wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote: As a duo Rose and Melo have no chemistry and don't make each other better. It's just them taking turns.

This is the part that really spoke to me. When this happens Melo stops being a facilitator which we've seen he has the capability of doing, and the result is no one on the team makes plays for other people.

I agree and I think this is on Rose. I have seen Melo play with flow and as part of the team. Rose MVP days is so ingrained in his basketball DNA that he doesn't know how to be a team basketball player in offense. Its all carry the team on my back kind of play.

I think bigger things are going on...It seems like the players against the front office...Some players can handle it and others can't...I'll try to post a few player interviews if I can as the medium isn't always youtube, and specifically Melo's interviews and you can see how he words his answers...Melo can handle it, so he powers thru and tries to carry the team...

Yeah, Melo has improved his numbers across the board pts, rebs, ast, and efficiency. Plus he seems to be playing just average or slightly below average defense in January.