Knicks · Why not trade KP for 2 First Round Picks this season (page 4)

TripleThreat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Unlike others, I do not think trading Zinger is a horrible idea. I don't know if it's a practical idea unless certain things fall out a certain way versus others. But I'm not going to sit here and just pan it absolutely.

If the Knicks cannot trade Melo, then this team is trapped. Melo, Noah and Lee are going to choke out this teams cap situation enough where this will be a progressively horrible team in the next three seasons after this one. Zinger can leave technically after his fifth year ( As a first rounder, the first two years are guaranteed, years three and four are vested team options, Zinger can resign in his 5th for the next three at more money, but he can play out the one year and be free, like Greg Monroe)

After spending four years of suffering on a dysfunctional cap hit broken down team like the Knicks will likely be after four years, would the kid want to stay?

If the answer seems to be No, then trading him is not a horrible idea, if it works in line with getting Noah's contract off the roster and picking up other draft assets and/or young players. If the Knicks can trade Melo for pennies on the dollar but without long term cap hits, and push out Noah with Zinger and get something else back, the Knicks can reset and start over. Its ugly, but Zingers fate might have been sealed the minute that Jackson traded for Rose, signed Noah and Lee. These were all horrible long term moves.

This is not a case if the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger, it's if they will NEED to trade him to maximize his utility for the franchise given the circumstances ( and sadly, best "utility" does not always mean what would seem traditionally "right" to do with young players. The Knicks made stopgap moves, the "tax" on this long term might cost them Zinger, this is the price you pay for trying to short cut success)

Trading Zinger is not a horrible idea, but it has to line up with what the Knicks NEED to if the circumstances get there. I really fail to see how the current circumstances don't get there eventually. I think for the good of the franchise, even if it hurts, they should do it and help shed Noah off the books.

1) You have a potential franchise type player on a rookie deal who you control for the next several years at a low cost.

2) You have no idea what you're likely to get in the draft. You know what you have in KP and know his potential. As good as the draft is suppose to be nobody has compared it to the '84, '96 or '03 drafts as far as I know. Rolling the dice on losing KP for two unknowns is a HUGE risk. People supporting this notion are doing it on the premise that we may be getting two perennial all-stars in exchange for one. We would need a combination of a lot of luck and a lot of great management/scouting for that to happen. Remember, if Philly had selected say Mudiay with that third pick we may have ended up with Okafor.

This is like when you could draft guys out of high school. GM were so enamored with the unknown. However for every Kobe and Lebron there were a bunch of Darius Miles and Kwame Brown type players. If you have one diamond you don't throw it away trying to flip it into two diamonds. The most likely scenario is you end up with two cubic zirconias.

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Unlike others, I do not think trading Zinger is a horrible idea. I don't know if it's a practical idea unless certain things fall out a certain way versus others. But I'm not going to sit here and just pan it absolutely.

If the Knicks cannot trade Melo, then this team is trapped. Melo, Noah and Lee are going to choke out this teams cap situation enough where this will be a progressively horrible team in the next three seasons after this one. Zinger can leave technically after his fifth year ( As a first rounder, the first two years are guaranteed, years three and four are vested team options, Zinger can resign in his 5th for the next three at more money, but he can play out the one year and be free, like Greg Monroe)

After spending four years of suffering on a dysfunctional cap hit broken down team like the Knicks will likely be after four years, would the kid want to stay?

If the answer seems to be No, then trading him is not a horrible idea, if it works in line with getting Noah's contract off the roster and picking up other draft assets and/or young players. If the Knicks can trade Melo for pennies on the dollar but without long term cap hits, and push out Noah with Zinger and get something else back, the Knicks can reset and start over. Its ugly, but Zingers fate might have been sealed the minute that Jackson traded for Rose, signed Noah and Lee. These were all horrible long term moves.

This is not a case if the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger, it's if they will NEED to trade him to maximize his utility for the franchise given the circumstances ( and sadly, best "utility" does not always mean what would seem traditionally "right" to do with young players. The Knicks made stopgap moves, the "tax" on this long term might cost them Zinger, this is the price you pay for trying to short cut success)

Trading Zinger is not a horrible idea, but it has to line up with what the Knicks NEED to if the circumstances get there. I really fail to see how the current circumstances don't get there eventually. I think for the good of the franchise, even if it hurts, they should do it and help shed Noah off the books.

Trading KP makes no sense because:

1) You have a potential franchise type player on a rookie deal who you control for the next several years at a low cost.

2) You have no idea what you're likely to get in the draft. You know what you have in KP and know his potential. As good as the draft is suppose to be nobody has compared it to the '84, '96 or '03 drafts as far as I know. Rolling the dice on losing KP for two unknowns is a HUGE risk. People supporting this notion are doing it on the premise that we may be getting two perennial all-stars in exchange for one. We would need a combination of a lot of luck and a lot of great management/scouting for that to happen. Remember, if Philly had selected say Mudiay with that third pick we may have ended up with Okafor.

This is like when you could draft guys out of high school. GM were so enamored with the unknown. However for every Kobe and Lebron there were a bunch of Darius Miles and Kwame Brown type players. If you have one diamond you don't throw it away trying to flip it into two diamonds. The most likely scenario is you end up with two cubic zirconias.

Papabear Says

Here is the zinger of them all. Building around KP and to have the team a contender it will take Jackson 5 to 6 years. Do you really think that Jackson will stick around that long? I don't think so.He would be near 80 years old.

Papabear wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Unlike others, I do not think trading Zinger is a horrible idea. I don't know if it's a practical idea unless certain things fall out a certain way versus others. But I'm not going to sit here and just pan it absolutely.

If the Knicks cannot trade Melo, then this team is trapped. Melo, Noah and Lee are going to choke out this teams cap situation enough where this will be a progressively horrible team in the next three seasons after this one. Zinger can leave technically after his fifth year ( As a first rounder, the first two years are guaranteed, years three and four are vested team options, Zinger can resign in his 5th for the next three at more money, but he can play out the one year and be free, like Greg Monroe)

After spending four years of suffering on a dysfunctional cap hit broken down team like the Knicks will likely be after four years, would the kid want to stay?

If the answer seems to be No, then trading him is not a horrible idea, if it works in line with getting Noah's contract off the roster and picking up other draft assets and/or young players. If the Knicks can trade Melo for pennies on the dollar but without long term cap hits, and push out Noah with Zinger and get something else back, the Knicks can reset and start over. Its ugly, but Zingers fate might have been sealed the minute that Jackson traded for Rose, signed Noah and Lee. These were all horrible long term moves.

This is not a case if the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger, it's if they will NEED to trade him to maximize his utility for the franchise given the circumstances ( and sadly, best "utility" does not always mean what would seem traditionally "right" to do with young players. The Knicks made stopgap moves, the "tax" on this long term might cost them Zinger, this is the price you pay for trying to short cut success)

Trading Zinger is not a horrible idea, but it has to line up with what the Knicks NEED to if the circumstances get there. I really fail to see how the current circumstances don't get there eventually. I think for the good of the franchise, even if it hurts, they should do it and help shed Noah off the books.

Trading KP makes no sense because:

1) You have a potential franchise type player on a rookie deal who you control for the next several years at a low cost.

2) You have no idea what you're likely to get in the draft. You know what you have in KP and know his potential. As good as the draft is suppose to be nobody has compared it to the '84, '96 or '03 drafts as far as I know. Rolling the dice on losing KP for two unknowns is a HUGE risk. People supporting this notion are doing it on the premise that we may be getting two perennial all-stars in exchange for one. We would need a combination of a lot of luck and a lot of great management/scouting for that to happen. Remember, if Philly had selected say Mudiay with that third pick we may have ended up with Okafor.

This is like when you could draft guys out of high school. GM were so enamored with the unknown. However for every Kobe and Lebron there were a bunch of Darius Miles and Kwame Brown type players. If you have one diamond you don't throw it away trying to flip it into two diamonds. The most likely scenario is you end up with two cubic zirconias.

Papabear Says

Here is the zinger of them all. Building around KP and to have the team a contender it will take Jackson 5 to 6 years. Do you really think that Jackson will stick around that long? I don't think so.He would be near 80 years old.

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Unlike others, I do not think trading Zinger is a horrible idea. I don't know if it's a practical idea unless certain things fall out a certain way versus others. But I'm not going to sit here and just pan it absolutely.

If the Knicks cannot trade Melo, then this team is trapped. Melo, Noah and Lee are going to choke out this teams cap situation enough where this will be a progressively horrible team in the next three seasons after this one. Zinger can leave technically after his fifth year ( As a first rounder, the first two years are guaranteed, years three and four are vested team options, Zinger can resign in his 5th for the next three at more money, but he can play out the one year and be free, like Greg Monroe)

After spending four years of suffering on a dysfunctional cap hit broken down team like the Knicks will likely be after four years, would the kid want to stay?

If the answer seems to be No, then trading him is not a horrible idea, if it works in line with getting Noah's contract off the roster and picking up other draft assets and/or young players. If the Knicks can trade Melo for pennies on the dollar but without long term cap hits, and push out Noah with Zinger and get something else back, the Knicks can reset and start over. Its ugly, but Zingers fate might have been sealed the minute that Jackson traded for Rose, signed Noah and Lee. These were all horrible long term moves.

This is not a case if the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger, it's if they will NEED to trade him to maximize his utility for the franchise given the circumstances ( and sadly, best "utility" does not always mean what would seem traditionally "right" to do with young players. The Knicks made stopgap moves, the "tax" on this long term might cost them Zinger, this is the price you pay for trying to short cut success)

Trading Zinger is not a horrible idea, but it has to line up with what the Knicks NEED to if the circumstances get there. I really fail to see how the current circumstances don't get there eventually. I think for the good of the franchise, even if it hurts, they should do it and help shed Noah off the books.

Trading KP makes no sense because:

1) You have a potential franchise type player on a rookie deal who you control for the next several years at a low cost.

2) You have no idea what you're likely to get in the draft. You know what you have in KP and know his potential. As good as the draft is suppose to be nobody has compared it to the '84, '96 or '03 drafts as far as I know. Rolling the dice on losing KP for two unknowns is a HUGE risk. People supporting this notion are doing it on the premise that we may be getting two perennial all-stars in exchange for one. We would need a combination of a lot of luck and a lot of great management/scouting for that to happen. Remember, if Philly had selected say Mudiay with that third pick we may have ended up with Okafor.

This is like when you could draft guys out of high school. GM were so enamored with the unknown. However for every Kobe and Lebron there were a bunch of Darius Miles and Kwame Brown type players. If you have one diamond you don't throw it away trying to flip it into two diamonds. The most likely scenario is you end up with two cubic zirconias.

Yeah, the draft is a crapshoot. Maybe 1 player on average comes out each year with franchise caliber talent. So you have about a 3% chance, maybe, of acquiring a franchise talent with a lottery pick. Which is why young, talented players are never moved. Front offices know the value of these players and how hard they are to land. Fans here seem to not realize how lucky we are. KP, Embiid, Towns, Jokic. These are the potential franchise players in the last 3 drafts. Meanwhile, teams like Orlando, Phoenix, Sacramento, etc are in the lottery each year and fail to land franchise-building talent. We are at a great starting point with KP to rebuild effectively.