Knicks · Why not trade KP for 2 First Round Picks this season (page 3)

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Giannis has taken huge steps forward though and I think that's a trade most objective outsiders would make now. I don't think anyone in Mil would trade Giannis for KP.

I don't think either team would do it. I think KP and Giannis are as close to untradeable that the league has. Homegrown talent trumps all. But all of this is pointless since knicks will never consider dealing kp.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Giannis has taken huge steps forward though and I think that's a trade most objective outsiders would make now. I don't think anyone in Mil would trade Giannis for KP.

I don't think either team would do it. I think KP and Giannis are as close to untradeable that the league has. Homegrown talent trumps all. But all of this is pointless since knicks will never consider dealing kp.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Giannis has taken huge steps forward though and I think that's a trade most objective outsiders would make now. I don't think anyone in Mil would trade Giannis for KP.

I don't think either team would do it. I think KP and Giannis are as close to untradeable that the league has. Homegrown talent trumps all. But all of this is pointless since knicks will never consider dealing kp.

Giannis's contract goes up to 22 mil next year otherwise I think the Knicks at least consider it.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Giannis has taken huge steps forward though and I think that's a trade most objective outsiders would make now. I don't think anyone in Mil would trade Giannis for KP.

I don't think either team would do it. I think KP and Giannis are as close to untradeable that the league has. Homegrown talent trumps all. But all of this is pointless since knicks will never consider dealing kp.

Giannis's contract goes up to 22 mil next year otherwise I think the Knicks at least consider it.

Yeah, the contracts are the main reason you might not do it. Still Giannis is already a young superstar. It's awfully hard to turn that down just for the possibility that KP becomes better than just an "ordinary superstar" like Giannis.

Giannis is probably the player I would pick if I got to start a franchise out of anyone in the league right now. But I'm looking forward to KP having a great career here. We got very lucky.

jrodmc wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Papabear wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Please lock this thread.

Papabear Says

Why? Because I suggested a trade for KP. 2 things He is having foot trouble. We want him to gain weight to play the center spot . His body frame probably can't take the weight. I just put that question out there and you KP lovers are going crazy.

Remember Steph Curry and his early ankle problems.
Yes, KP lovers are going crazy.
Wait, you not?????

KP hater? Such a thing?
"Banish with you!!!!"

Papabear Says

Damn I love KP. I just put that suggestion out there. I thought this is a forum for ideas and discussion. In my opinion everyone on the team should be open for trade if the right deal comes up. It ain't like we are winning a lot of games.

Courage PB.

Funny, alot of the same Hinkie plan lovers are the same ones that won't stick up for this possible banking of possibly thousands ping pong balls...interesting...

Those feet are already hurting.
Now where did I read about people of tremendous height being susceptible to career damaging foot issues....hmmmm.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Dont want to play the Lotto game again. We got lucky with KP. Maybe Phil can focus on trading Noah, Jennings for some pieces that can help us. Wont be easy though.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Dont want to play the Lotto game again. We got lucky with KP. Maybe Phil can focus on trading Noah, Jennings for some pieces that can help us. Wont be easy though.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Knixkik wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Only young players you can even consider are Towns and Giannis. Definitely not Embiid because he's older and has greater injury risks. KP is as close to untouchable as you can get. Absolutely not for lottery picks because that is a game of chance and not a great one. Who knows how good KP will be, but you have to like his chances given his age, talent, and work ethic. He seems to check all of the boxes, and only a couple others in his age group in the entire league check all the boxes as well. I'm sure Dallas never even thoughts about dealing a young Dirk, and of course the Knicks never will either.

Jokic would be on that list too. Also, if I could get Indiana to put together a pkg to go with Turner I'd think about it too.

Has there ever been a Hershal Walker type trade in the NBA? There probably has but lacked the results.

KP is better than both of them, with much more upside. Never trade down in talent. Jokic was averaging 10 and 7 with poor defense until they changed the lineup to feature him. He has excelled, but still doesn't have the upside KP has, especially on the defensive end. He just isn't very tall or athletic for a center, which limits his upside, but he's a very good player. I just don't see how you can even consider those types of deals. For those who question KP's abilities here now, they would be very disappointed with some of these other guys. Knicks fans are never satisfied, case in point here, where we have the best young talent since Ewing, and the board is flooded with trade proposals and saying we should bench him, from a bad stretch of games, coming off injury. Jokic has nowhere near the potential of KP. Would be one of the worst deals in recent history for either player.

What puzzles me is this notion that KP has unlimited potential and players like Jokic, Turner, and others have only have so much potential. I do not care how tall a player is just as long as he is productive and Jokic is producing at levels one would hope KP gets to as a season vet and Jokic is doing it as a 2nd year player. Also, Jokic efficiency numbers were down but even those numbers are better than KPs and his rebounding was still great because he was only playing around 23.5 minutes and still manage to pull down close to KP's avg. Plus the guy is averaging 5.4 ast per 36. Think about that he has the same per 36 ast numbers as Giannis and Jokic is a center. Jokic at 21 is passing like a prime Joakim Noah. This might sound weird but Jokic might be the James Harden/Curry of Centers but I think his defense is not that bad. The only thing that has stopped Jokic is Malone.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Only young players you can even consider are Towns and Giannis. Definitely not Embiid because he's older and has greater injury risks. KP is as close to untouchable as you can get. Absolutely not for lottery picks because that is a game of chance and not a great one. Who knows how good KP will be, but you have to like his chances given his age, talent, and work ethic. He seems to check all of the boxes, and only a couple others in his age group in the entire league check all the boxes as well. I'm sure Dallas never even thoughts about dealing a young Dirk, and of course the Knicks never will either.

Jokic would be on that list too. Also, if I could get Indiana to put together a pkg to go with Turner I'd think about it too.

Has there ever been a Hershal Walker type trade in the NBA? There probably has but lacked the results.

KP is better than both of them, with much more upside. Never trade down in talent. Jokic was averaging 10 and 7 with poor defense until they changed the lineup to feature him. He has excelled, but still doesn't have the upside KP has, especially on the defensive end. He just isn't very tall or athletic for a center, which limits his upside, but he's a very good player. I just don't see how you can even consider those types of deals. For those who question KP's abilities here now, they would be very disappointed with some of these other guys. Knicks fans are never satisfied, case in point here, where we have the best young talent since Ewing, and the board is flooded with trade proposals and saying we should bench him, from a bad stretch of games, coming off injury. Jokic has nowhere near the potential of KP. Would be one of the worst deals in recent history for either player.

What puzzles me is this notion that KP has unlimited potential and players like Jokic, Turner, and others have only have so much potential. I do not care how tall a player is just as long as he is productive and Jokic is producing at levels one would hope KP gets to as a season vet and Jokic is doing it as a 2nd year player. Also, Jokic efficiency numbers were down but even those numbers are better than KPs and his rebounding was still great because he was only playing around 23.5 minutes and still manage to pull down close to KP's avg. Plus the guy is averaging 5.4 ast per 36. Think about that he has the same per 36 ast numbers as Giannis and Jokic is a center. Jokic at 21 is passing like a prime Joakim Noah. This might sound weird but Jokic might be the James Harden/Curry of Centers but I think his defense is not that bad. The only thing that has stopped Jokic is Malone.

Porzingis is taller, more athletic, and less physically developed, so more room to grow, similar to giannis in that regard where he still needs to grow into his body. But Jokic is very very good.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Giannis has taken huge steps forward though and I think that's a trade most objective outsiders would make now. I don't think anyone in Mil would trade Giannis for KP.

I don't think either team would do it. I think KP and Giannis are as close to untradeable that the league has. Homegrown talent trumps all. But all of this is pointless since knicks will never consider dealing kp.

Giannis's contract goes up to 22 mil next year otherwise I think the Knicks at least consider it.

Yeah, the contracts are the main reason you might not do it. Still Giannis is already a young superstar. It's awfully hard to turn that down just for the possibility that KP becomes better than just an "ordinary superstar" like Giannis.

Giannis is probably the player I would pick if I got to start a franchise out of anyone in the league right now. But I'm looking forward to KP having a great career here. We got very lucky.

Yeah he is up there but I think I'd still go with Anthony Davis. Davis is the better defender too. I'm also on the fence with taking Kawhi over Giannis too because of his shooting ability. Kawhi is quietly becoming Durant level good on offense.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Double down like Hinkie? Two picks and reset with guys on the first year of their rookie deals. Probably not worth it but it makes about as much sense as some of the other trades proposed.

I am not sure if I ask this question on this board but last year I asked if anyone would trade KP for Giannis and of course all said no.

So I'll ask this question on this board.

Who would you be okay with the Knicks trading KP for or what kind if package would you want in return.

Durant, LBJ, Curry, Davis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook are off the table.

Giannis has taken huge steps forward though and I think that's a trade most objective outsiders would make now. I don't think anyone in Mil would trade Giannis for KP.

I don't think either team would do it. I think KP and Giannis are as close to untradeable that the league has. Homegrown talent trumps all. But all of this is pointless since knicks will never consider dealing kp.

Giannis's contract goes up to 22 mil next year otherwise I think the Knicks at least consider it.

Yeah, the contracts are the main reason you might not do it. Still Giannis is already a young superstar. It's awfully hard to turn that down just for the possibility that KP becomes better than just an "ordinary superstar" like Giannis.

Giannis is probably the player I would pick if I got to start a franchise out of anyone in the league right now. But I'm looking forward to KP having a great career here. We got very lucky.

Yeah he is up there but I think I'd still go with Anthony Davis. Davis is the better defender too. I'm also on the fence with taking Kawhi over Giannis too because of his shooting ability. Kawhi is quietly becoming Durant level good on offense.

I'm surprised KP hasn't been traded for some vet that can help melo.

franco12 wrote:I would say no trade because right now, we're a veteran team and adding two first rounders doesn't change our direction.

I'm surprised KP hasn't been traded for some vet that can help melo.

At least phil isn't that dumb.

Papabear is still Papabear

JamesKPolk wrote:GKF says

Papabear is still Papabear

Papabear Says

GKF is long gone and Papabear is still around

Papabear wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:GKF says

Papabear is still Papabear

Papabear Says

GKF is long gone and Papabear is still around

Playa is that you? addressing self in 3rd person?

Papabear wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:GKF says

Papabear is still Papabear

Papabear Says

GKF is long gone and Papabear is still around

You sure about that, Papa?

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Unlike others, I do not think trading Zinger is a horrible idea. I don't know if it's a practical idea unless certain things fall out a certain way versus others. But I'm not going to sit here and just pan it absolutely.

If the Knicks cannot trade Melo, then this team is trapped. Melo, Noah and Lee are going to choke out this teams cap situation enough where this will be a progressively horrible team in the next three seasons after this one. Zinger can leave technically after his fifth year ( As a first rounder, the first two years are guaranteed, years three and four are vested team options, Zinger can resign in his 5th for the next three at more money, but he can play out the one year and be free, like Greg Monroe)

After spending four years of suffering on a dysfunctional cap hit broken down team like the Knicks will likely be after four years, would the kid want to stay?

If the answer seems to be No, then trading him is not a horrible idea, if it works in line with getting Noah's contract off the roster and picking up other draft assets and/or young players. If the Knicks can trade Melo for pennies on the dollar but without long term cap hits, and push out Noah with Zinger and get something else back, the Knicks can reset and start over. Its ugly, but Zingers fate might have been sealed the minute that Jackson traded for Rose, signed Noah and Lee. These were all horrible long term moves.

This is not a case if the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger, it's if they will NEED to trade him to maximize his utility for the franchise given the circumstances ( and sadly, best "utility" does not always mean what would seem traditionally "right" to do with young players. The Knicks made stopgap moves, the "tax" on this long term might cost them Zinger, this is the price you pay for trying to short cut success)

Trading Zinger is not a horrible idea, but it has to line up with what the Knicks NEED to if the circumstances get there. I really fail to see how the current circumstances don't get there eventually. I think for the good of the franchise, even if it hurts, they should do it and help shed Noah off the books.

TripleThreat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I think that Boston or another team that have 2 first round picks for this season would give us 3 first rounds this season. This draft class have some talented players. It would give KP a new start and maybe a superstar status. This will be good for both. Plus he is popular.

Unlike others, I do not think trading Zinger is a horrible idea. I don't know if it's a practical idea unless certain things fall out a certain way versus others. But I'm not going to sit here and just pan it absolutely.

If the Knicks cannot trade Melo, then this team is trapped. Melo, Noah and Lee are going to choke out this teams cap situation enough where this will be a progressively horrible team in the next three seasons after this one. Zinger can leave technically after his fifth year ( As a first rounder, the first two years are guaranteed, years three and four are vested team options, Zinger can resign in his 5th for the next three at more money, but he can play out the one year and be free, like Greg Monroe)

After spending four years of suffering on a dysfunctional cap hit broken down team like the Knicks will likely be after four years, would the kid want to stay?

If the answer seems to be No, then trading him is not a horrible idea, if it works in line with getting Noah's contract off the roster and picking up other draft assets and/or young players. If the Knicks can trade Melo for pennies on the dollar but without long term cap hits, and push out Noah with Zinger and get something else back, the Knicks can reset and start over. Its ugly, but Zingers fate might have been sealed the minute that Jackson traded for Rose, signed Noah and Lee. These were all horrible long term moves.

This is not a case if the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger, it's if they will NEED to trade him to maximize his utility for the franchise given the circumstances ( and sadly, best "utility" does not always mean what would seem traditionally "right" to do with young players. The Knicks made stopgap moves, the "tax" on this long term might cost them Zinger, this is the price you pay for trying to short cut success)

Trading Zinger is not a horrible idea, but it has to line up with what the Knicks NEED to if the circumstances get there. I really fail to see how the current circumstances don't get there eventually. I think for the good of the franchise, even if it hurts, they should do it and help shed Noah off the books.

1) You have a potential franchise type player on a rookie deal who you control for the next several years at a low cost.

2) You have no idea what you're likely to get in the draft. You know what you have in KP and know his potential. As good as the draft is suppose to be nobody has compared it to the '84, '96 or '03 drafts as far as I know. Rolling the dice on losing KP for two unknowns is a HUGE risk. People supporting this notion are doing it on the premise that we may be getting two perennial all-stars in exchange for one. We would need a combination of a lot of luck and a lot of great management/scouting for that to happen. Remember, if Philly had selected say Mudiay with that third pick we may have ended up with Okafor.

This is like when you could draft guys out of high school. GM were so enamored with the unknown. However for every Kobe and Lebron there were a bunch of Darius Miles and Kwame Brown type players. If you have one diamond you don't throw it away trying to flip it into two diamonds. The most likely scenario is you end up with two cubic zirconias.