Knicks · no ball movement (page 1)
look melo got 30 pts tonight vs the awful mavericks what did that do for us. how many failed defensive sets are ruined my melos lack of care on defense. you can see rose looks unmotivated, kp looks destroyed, noah is a non factor.... todays nba is all about ball movement, melo is the anti ball movement and again todays nba is all about ball movement to get open looks and easy shots...
Lets move melo and build ball moving players i mean melo scores 30 and the rest of the team looks dead like why try its ISO melo all game long.... rose, horny needs to yell and sit him and say wtf why can't you play defense. how athletic rose is its just a lack of motivation. I now think its time to let melo go for picks and a good player and let rose walk, I've been a big supporter of rose but man he just won't play defense...
guys we lost to the fucking mavericks this is awful and a all time low we need to move melo he is poison to this team everyone hates him you can see it in the body language of KP,Rose,willy,everyone .... Iso melo needs to stop it needs to STOP he can catch and shoot why stop the ball movement why it makes the team fall asleep on both ends
melo is poison hes a team chemistry killer... time to give other players the ball F U C K melo
The stat I through up just now on the game thread tells it all. 39 baskets and only 17 assists. No a single player on the team had more than 3 assists.
Dallas was not much better, but I don't care about them. The assist stat tells me that we have little movement going on. Rarely see players coming off a screen and getting passed to for a J when they get open.
With all the confidence issues KP has, he was passed up a number of times when he was open...going to the basket as well as at the 3pt line.
Torturous for me to watch us on on offense at this point...I actually prefer watching a well run Triangle, to be honest...this offense is just painful for me to sit through, and you are seeing KP wilt before your eyes as we have basically a 2 man ISO offense.
WaltLongmire wrote:I've try not to go too crazy going after Melo in particular.The stat I through up just now on the game thread tells it all. 39 baskets and only 17 assists. No a single player on the team had more than 3 assists.
Dallas was not much better, but I don't care about them. The assist stat tells me that we have little movement going on. Rarely see players coming off a screen and getting passed to for a J when they get open.
With all the confidence issues KP has, he was passed up a number of times when he was open...going to the basket as well as at the 3pt line.
Torturous for me to watch us on on offense at this point...I actually prefer watching a well run Triangle, to be honest...this offense is just painful for me to sit through, and you are seeing KP wilt before your eyes as we have basically a 2 man ISO offense.
its melo and rose they freeze the ball and put their teammates asleep their were multiple possessions KP had the open shot and passed to melo or rose. you have to wonder if melo and rose are crying for the ball constantly and the other players are submissive and just give them the ball.... melo needs a stern coach that won't allow ISO because his catch and shoot percentage is fantastic. Melos iso percentage is awful. Horny needs to control this team force ball movement and open shots, and well as pushing the tempo rose's talent is wasted with this super slow half court game that is solely suited for melo to get his ISO.
ITS NOT WORKING !!!
we need to push for easy transition buckets and ball movement for open jumpers we have dead eyes in melo,KP,Lee. we are wasting so much of our talent by slowing the ball down and playing ISO. this isn't Phils NBA anymore and unless we draft the next kobe or jordan we need to change our style of play to suit the team NOT just melo.
yellowboy90 wrote:I must defend Melo in this game it wasn't that he was ball stopping it was that he was trying to share too much and was inaccurate with his passes. Also he had two passes that went to players who were fouled and another pass that went to Lee in the corner but was called off due to a 3 sec penalty. This is not counting several other passes that resulted into missed shots.
true its not melo's fault he is a incredible talent the coach has to get him to become more of a catch and shoot player. his percentage is so much greater on the catch and shoot 62% compared to a awful Iso percentage. we need more ball and off ball movement quick passes and catch and shoot jumpers.
our offense is so painfully slow its hard to watch.
It was awful seeing KP pass up open looks and not be himself looking at rose and melo.... this team needs to get KP involved and involved early in the game. I know tonight he had foul trouble but we need him to be aggressive and look to score. KP should touch the ball on most offensive possessions he's to big and dominate to not get his touches through ball movement. with the lack of movement off the ball we are giving opposing teams breaks on defense we need to wear teams down with movement.
Had 7 turnovers surrounded by some amazing passes
You hear it from all the good teams. Don't settle for bad shots. Damn. SAS say they don't settle for good shots they want great shots. If you move the ball any guy can contribute on offense and everyone benefits. It's like a QB who throws the ball to 8 different people. It makes it tough on the defense. You can't take away everyone w your D scheme
Having said all of that our biggest problem remains defense and it's not close. Yet another game w 30 or more points against in the first. How do start out games so consistently bad. We're not tired at that point -- just clueless or uncaring
Rose also is a ball stopper.
NY needs to shed these two guys. A scorer is fine but he has to be able to do other things. Neither guy defends, neither MAKES his teammates better.
Definitely the more talented team but the lesser team.
When Baker was starting, I saw ball movement and Rose play a SG. Since Lee went back in, Lee has looked good, but as a team our ball movement sucks starters wise. Lee/Rose backcourt is awful for ball movement. Both are shooting guards. KP is also a shooting guard. Melo's a shooting guard. What you're seeing with the starters is an inept scoring 5 who can not do anything but set screens and board and 4 players who are most comfortable being shooting guards.
Horny is to blame as well. Why is he starting players in their wrong spots? He found something with Baker at PG, and Rose at SG. Why abandon it so fast? Baker moves the ball. He struggles at times, but he takes pressure off Rose from being what Rose can never be which is a real point. So Baker plays point and moves the ball. Why are we still starting Melo at 3 and KP at 4 with Noah? We need more movement players to get in spots quicker so the easy obvious pass is more available.
There's just too much "I'm a veteran star, I'm making 20 million or more a year, so I have to start" going on with this team. We should be playing KP at 5, Melo at 4, Rose at 2. We should be playing Baker at 1 and either Holiday or Kuz at 3. Or maybe if we want to play bigger Willy at 5, KP at 4, Melo at 3.
In the end though one thing this crystal clear. Rose and Melo must be split up. They do not work together. Sometimes you put two good individually players together and they play off each other. In this case it just doesn't happen. What Melo needs is a point guard that will pass, shoot open 3's and orchestrate the offense. What Rose needs is a spot up 3 baller, a good screen setter than can roll.
We would be a better team with Love instead of Melo, because Rose would be the alpha and Love would play off Rose instead of Melo who prefers to handle the ball and create his own offense. When Melo does that it makes Rose useless as he can't shoot from outside. So Rose ball watches and his man leaves him knowing Rose can't shoot an open 3. If we traded Rose for Dragic, we would be a better team because Dragic does things that a team with Melo as the #1 would need. It's just been a really bad fit between the two of them. When KP was playing like an all-star we had so much talent that we just got by on talent. Once KP's achilles starting hurting, our talent level is no longer that much that we can get by on it. We never actually played good ball as a team anymore than a game or two every 5 games. Most of the rest was just having 3 talents like KP, Melo, Rose all playing well individually. If KP gets back to playing like he did before the injury, we'll start winning half our games again. It doesn't say much about the team though.
This team needs to broken up ASAP. Starting with Rose/Melo. One of those two has to go. I like Melo more than Rose. However Rose is 28, and also a free agent. Melo is going to be 33 and may be easier to trade and fetch more in return because his team would be assured of having him for 2 more years.
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo and Rose have no chemistry. That's the problem. Melo is a shooter, a scorer, a gunner. He is supposed to play that way. I have little problem with Melo more with Rose being our PG. Rose is supposed to have come to NY to adjust his game a little, be in a different role he said having all this talent he never played with. Instead Rose plays to score almost all the time. He looks to pass as a distant secondary option. There's no organization. No leadership from Rose as the PG.When Baker was starting, I saw ball movement and Rose play a SG. Since Lee went back in, Lee has looked good, but as a team our ball movement sucks starters wise. Lee/Rose backcourt is awful for ball movement. Both are shooting guards. KP is also a shooting guard. Melo's a shooting guard. What you're seeing with the starters is an inept scoring 5 who can not do anything but set screens and board and 4 players who are most comfortable being shooting guards.
Horny is to blame as well. Why is he starting players in their wrong spots? He found something with Baker at PG, and Rose at SG. Why abandon it so fast? Baker moves the ball. He struggles at times, but he takes pressure off Rose from being what Rose can never be which is a real point. So Baker plays point and moves the ball. Why are we still starting Melo at 3 and KP at 4 with Noah? We need more movement players to get in spots quicker so the easy obvious pass is more available.
There's just too much "I'm a veteran star, I'm making 20 million or more a year, so I have to start" going on with this team. We should be playing KP at 5, Melo at 4, Rose at 2. We should be playing Baker at 1 and either Holiday or Kuz at 3. Or maybe if we want to play bigger Willy at 5, KP at 4, Melo at 3.
In the end though one thing this crystal clear. Rose and Melo must be split up. They do not work together. Sometimes you put two good individually players together and they play off each other. In this case it just doesn't happen. What Melo needs is a point guard that will pass, shoot open 3's and orchestrate the offense. What Rose needs is a spot up 3 baller, a good screen setter than can roll.
We would be a better team with Love instead of Melo, because Rose would be the alpha and Love would play off Rose instead of Melo who prefers to handle the ball and create his own offense. When Melo does that it makes Rose useless as he can't shoot from outside. So Rose ball watches and his man leaves him knowing Rose can't shoot an open 3. If we traded Rose for Dragic, we would be a better team because Dragic does things that a team with Melo as the #1 would need. It's just been a really bad fit between the two of them. When KP was playing like an all-star we had so much talent that we just got by on talent. Once KP's achilles starting hurting, our talent level is no longer that much that we can get by on it. We never actually played good ball as a team anymore than a game or two every 5 games. Most of the rest was just having 3 talents like KP, Melo, Rose all playing well individually. If KP gets back to playing like he did before the injury, we'll start winning half our games again. It doesn't say much about the team though.
This team needs to broken up ASAP. Starting with Rose/Melo. One of those two has to go. I like Melo more than Rose. However Rose is 28, and also a free agent. Melo is going to be 33 and may be easier to trade and fetch more in return because his team would be assured of having him for 2 more years.
I agree for the most part. What's important is for the team to win not for the individuals to shine.
We had last year a PG who is a good passer and 3pt shooter in Calderon. It didn't help much since Calderon was not able to break the defense like Rose does. The truth is we either need a good PG or a very well run motion system.
nyknickzingis wrote:Jose was so in over his head as a starter, yet the team was not worse than this year's team. That's crazy when you think about. Talent wise this year's team is so much better. Yet last year's team won 32 games with a rookie KP and Calderon at point. It says to me, that Rose and Melo are just awful together. The team doesn't play together on offense and it leads to even worse defense. Say what you want about Jose, as bad as he was, he was a real point guard. Looked to pass, look to set up the offense. Major mistake trying to pair Rose and Melo together. Talent isn't everything. We need to look for a point guard that can pass, set up the table as in orchestrate the offense, encourage team work and team play. It will lead to better offense and better defense through greater communication. I hope major changes happen soon. I can't stand to watch this team most nights.
Melo can't play with stat, can't play with rose, can't play with anyone who needs the ball ... this is a bad track record to hold as a star.. stars are supposed to elevate teammates to there next level . The other Players look like they gave up on melo and his give me the ball attitude . Seeing KP pass up open shot after open shot to get the ball to melo or rose was a sad sight .
fitzfarm wrote:the ball movement stops with melo its ruining kp its ruining rose its ruining the team chemistry. we are not beating any elite team... lets tank and get a top 3 pick!even running the fast break, we don't because melo will not run or push he defies horny I'm pretty sure everyone on the team hates melo the player not the person, he's a good guy a bad teammate .....look melo got 30 pts tonight vs the awful mavericks what did that do for us. how many failed defensive sets are ruined my melos lack of care on defense. you can see rose looks unmotivated, kp looks destroyed, noah is a non factor.... todays nba is all about ball movement, melo is the anti ball movement and again todays nba is all about ball movement to get open looks and easy shots...
Lets move melo and build ball moving players i mean melo scores 30 and the rest of the team looks dead like why try its ISO melo all game long.... rose, horny needs to yell and sit him and say wtf why can't you play defense. how athletic rose is its just a lack of motivation. I now think its time to let melo go for picks and a good player and let rose walk, I've been a big supporter of rose but man he just won't play defense...
guys we lost to the fucking mavericks this is awful and a all time low we need to move melo he is poison to this team everyone hates him you can see it in the body language of KP,Rose,willy,everyone .... Iso melo needs to stop it needs to STOP he can catch and shoot why stop the ball movement why it makes the team fall asleep on both ends
melo is poison hes a team chemistry killer... time to give other players the ball F U C K melo
Im saying WTF? The player who bailed on his team, the player who barely plays a lick of D, seems to believe that passing, setting up teammates, isnt in his job description. Who regularly passes up open teammates to call his own number, should be lecturing Melo? GTFO.
I wouldn't mind Melo traded, but Rose is absolutely the last person on this team to be lecturing anyone.