Knicks · Austin Rivers (page 2)
franco12 wrote:I don't know if you can accommodate any decent trade before the deadline. Wait until the summer, cap goes up, more options then.
What are the options?
Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:ill tell you all about himSTRENGTHS: super athletic, improving jumper and decision making
WEAKNESSES: poor instincts on defense, not a good feel for the game, not a passer
OVERALL: nice role player that would start for a bad team, sit the bench on a good team
He plays for a good team now and doesn't sit on the bench. He is a major factor, and was a major factor in the playoffs last year. And obviously there is still upside and room to grow.
yeah he comes off the bench for a good team. hes still young and talented. i wouldnt mind getting rivers at all
callmened wrote:Knixkik wrote:callmened wrote:ill tell you all about himSTRENGTHS: super athletic, improving jumper and decision making
WEAKNESSES: poor instincts on defense, not a good feel for the game, not a passer
OVERALL: nice role player that would start for a bad team, sit the bench on a good team
He plays for a good team now and doesn't sit on the bench. He is a major factor, and was a major factor in the playoffs last year. And obviously there is still upside and room to grow.
yeah he comes off the bench for a good team. hes still young and talented. i wouldnt mind getting rivers at all
Yeah, I wouldn't want Rivers as my starting PG when I was trying to make the playoffs... but he's not a bad bridge PG and can definitely be a third guard on a very good team. And he's got room to improve... not a great return for Melo, hopefully there's a way to get some picks as well... but Rivers is a decent piece.
yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.
I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Rivers is a crappy shooter who like Shumpert is having a great shooting year. Shumpert even has a higher eFG% than Rivers this year. Shumpert is shooting 40% from thre and 44.3% overall. Shumpert has a 58.2 TS% and Rivers has a 55.6 TS% so far. What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ. As young players you see them make great plays as a ball handler, passer, Shooter, and finisher. You'll see them flash greatness and think wow he could be a potential great role player but then you will see them miss the easy dump off pass or blow an easy lay up over and over. One positive both players bring is defensive effort which what has kept them on the floor.
"What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ." this is rivers (and shumpert) in a nutshell
yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability.
Ha, ha, what a horrific description! I hope it's not true!
smackeddog wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability.Ha, ha, what a horrific description! I hope it's not true!
They're not awful players it's that you have to have the right players around them to be successful and NY doesn't have that.
We were never going to get a good return for melo. That was fans talking about what they want.
The brooklyn pick was fantasy.
Phil didn't bring him here. Resigning him was not in place of another prize. Its not like we missed anything.
Now its about creating room. You remove an old decaying tree to let a young one grab sunlight and water in ints place.
As for getting angry about the deal, I'd wait. How many times has deadlines come and gone with nothing or little happening, all the while projecting that players are upset, or offended. its Their business. Its our entertainment.
yellowboy90 wrote:Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Rivers is a crappy shooter who like Shumpert is having a great shooting year. Shumpert even has a higher eFG% than Rivers this year. Shumpert is shooting 40% from thre and 44.3% overall. Shumpert has a 58.2 TS% and Rivers has a 55.6 TS% so far. What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ. As young players you see them make great plays as a ball handler, passer, Shooter, and finisher. You'll see them flash greatness and think wow he could be a potential great role player but then you will see them miss the easy dump off pass or blow an easy lay up over and over. One positive both players bring is defensive effort which what has kept them on the floor.
Think it's also that Iman has matured and is playing like someone that has been in the league for 5 years. Everyone always knew Shump had talent. Problem is, NY fans expect things to happen right away and label guys as bad this or bad that real early in their careers. Austin is a good player. Think they over paid because he had that good playoff run. Is he worth trading Melo for? Specially if they add Crawford at 14M and JJ expiring. Don't think so. As it means we still have 25M cap hit but for an extra year. However Shumpert is a good comparison, as it shows that there is no way anyone here can argue a guy we just gave away for nothing is now worth giving up Melo for.
HofstraBBall wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Rivers is a crappy shooter who like Shumpert is having a great shooting year. Shumpert even has a higher eFG% than Rivers this year. Shumpert is shooting 40% from thre and 44.3% overall. Shumpert has a 58.2 TS% and Rivers has a 55.6 TS% so far. What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ. As young players you see them make great plays as a ball handler, passer, Shooter, and finisher. You'll see them flash greatness and think wow he could be a potential great role player but then you will see them miss the easy dump off pass or blow an easy lay up over and over. One positive both players bring is defensive effort which what has kept them on the floor.
Think it's also that Iman has matured and is playing like someone that has been in the league for 5 years. Everyone always knew Shump had talent. Problem is, NY fans expect things to happen right away and label guys as bad this or bad that real early in their careers. Austin is a good player. Think they over paid because he had that good playoff run. Is he worth trading Melo for? Specially if they add Crawford at 14M and JJ expiring. Don't think so. As it means we still have 25M cap hit but for an extra year. However Shumpert is a good comparison, as it shows that there is no way anyone here can argue a guy we just gave away for nothing is now worth giving up Melo for.
Your saying shump is Rivers? Rivers was a hot shot shooter at duke and they were all too happy to see him leave.
He was drafted by NOLA, then came to Clippers. Now he is ready for prime time? need he be a star? Is he a player that needs his own team and ready to move on after being an understudy to CP3, which one can learn from far worse players then him!!!
My point is a good trade is one that has yet to be fully valued. its not what was, but what can be.
I don't have the answer, but one need not look back either. melo next year will be the 8th highest paid player in the league, 33 years old and really able to give 20 solid two way ball. The third team is there to facilitate a purpose which I assume is a pick for the pieces we don't want.
I might compare Rivers to Mike Conley than Shump. Not saying they on same level.
EnySpree wrote:How can the knicks keep 4 or 5 players and only move one. Either players received in a trade or some existing players would need to be cut, right? I'm not a big fan of trading quality for quantity especially if Austin Rivers is the best player coming back in a Melo trade.Rookie wrote:so the Knicks trade their best player, don't get any salary relief, don't get any younger, don't get any starters and might get a pick 6 years from now....and you think that gets it done? What am I missing here?What would satisfy you? Jamal would have to be flipped to another team, meaning the Knicks would get something from that 3rd team. There's a few variables that need to be sorted out. But that framework is decent for the Knicks. The Knicks will have a few players to move around since it will be a 4 or 5 player trade for 1....
This isn't the Ewing trade. The Knicks are bad. We need to transition to the Kristaps era.
yellowboy90 wrote:I agree. I wanted us to sign Rivers at the type of money Jennings was getting. When I saw what the Clippers paid him I said no thanks.Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Rivers is a crappy shooter who like Shumpert is having a great shooting year. Shumpert even has a higher eFG% than Rivers this year. Shumpert is shooting 40% from thre and 44.3% overall. Shumpert has a 58.2 TS% and Rivers has a 55.6 TS% so far. What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ. As young players you see them make great plays as a ball handler, passer, Shooter, and finisher. You'll see them flash greatness and think wow he could be a potential great role player but then you will see them miss the easy dump off pass or blow an easy lay up over and over. One positive both players bring is defensive effort which what has kept them on the floor.
HofstraBBall wrote:I don't know, I don't see Shump as a true starting SG on a healthy team. His per 36 minute numbers are about what its always been except for the 3 pt. percentage, and his defense doesn't appear to be what it was earlier in his career (not sure if stats confirm this).yellowboy90 wrote:Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Rivers is a crappy shooter who like Shumpert is having a great shooting year. Shumpert even has a higher eFG% than Rivers this year. Shumpert is shooting 40% from thre and 44.3% overall. Shumpert has a 58.2 TS% and Rivers has a 55.6 TS% so far. What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ. As young players you see them make great plays as a ball handler, passer, Shooter, and finisher. You'll see them flash greatness and think wow he could be a potential great role player but then you will see them miss the easy dump off pass or blow an easy lay up over and over. One positive both players bring is defensive effort which what has kept them on the floor.
Think it's also that Iman has matured and is playing like someone that has been in the league for 5 years. Everyone always knew Shump had talent. Problem is, NY fans expect things to happen right away and label guys as bad this or bad that real early in their careers. Austin is a good player. Think they over paid because he had that good playoff run. Is he worth trading Melo for? Specially if they add Crawford at 14M and JJ expiring. Don't think so. As it means we still have 25M cap hit but for an extra year. However Shumpert is a good comparison, as it shows that there is no way anyone here can argue a guy we just gave away for nothing is now worth giving up Melo for.
I don't see the point of trading Melo just to get rid of him if you're not getting a potential major asset in return. Players like Rivers are a dime a dozen.
dacash wrote:oh lord are we trying to convince ourselves that austin rivers is worth melo, seriously oh lord god forgive us we know not what we do
He's not...... but unfortunately Melo has limited what the Knicks can get for him. Rivers as part of a package isn't horrible because of his youth, and it appears he is trending upwards with his recent playtime. Jamal as part of that package based both on his age, recent play, and his time here prior is horrible.
Welpee wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:I don't know, I don't see Shump as a true starting SG on a healthy team. His per 36 minute numbers are about what its always been except for the 3 pt. percentage, and his defense doesn't appear to be what it was earlier in his career (not sure if stats confirm this).yellowboy90 wrote:Knixkik wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Austin RIvers best comparison would be Iman Shumpert but with less defensive ability. Those kind of players tend to turn into DIon Waiters when they move to bad teams.I don't get this comparison. Shumpert can't shoot at all. Rivers is a very good shooter.
Rivers is a crappy shooter who like Shumpert is having a great shooting year. Shumpert even has a higher eFG% than Rivers this year. Shumpert is shooting 40% from thre and 44.3% overall. Shumpert has a 58.2 TS% and Rivers has a 55.6 TS% so far. What makes them similar is that they are two elite athletic players who do not consistently capitalize on their skills because they lack great BBall IQ. As young players you see them make great plays as a ball handler, passer, Shooter, and finisher. You'll see them flash greatness and think wow he could be a potential great role player but then you will see them miss the easy dump off pass or blow an easy lay up over and over. One positive both players bring is defensive effort which what has kept them on the floor.
Think it's also that Iman has matured and is playing like someone that has been in the league for 5 years. Everyone always knew Shump had talent. Problem is, NY fans expect things to happen right away and label guys as bad this or bad that real early in their careers. Austin is a good player. Think they over paid because he had that good playoff run. Is he worth trading Melo for? Specially if they add Crawford at 14M and JJ expiring. Don't think so. As it means we still have 25M cap hit but for an extra year. However Shumpert is a good comparison, as it shows that there is no way anyone here can argue a guy we just gave away for nothing is now worth giving up Melo for.
I don't see the point of trading Melo just to get rid of him if you're not getting a potential major asset in return. Players like Rivers are a dime a dozen.
You may be right. Although teams like a strong SG defender. But you make a good point specially if you factor in that he is playing with the best player on the planet. Not to mention a couple of decent players in Irving and Love.
wargames wrote:dacash wrote:oh lord are we trying to convince ourselves that austin rivers is worth melo, seriously oh lord god forgive us we know not what we doHe's not...... but unfortunately Melo has limited what the Knicks can get for him. Rivers as part of a package isn't horrible because of his youth, and it appears he is trending upwards with his recent playtime. Jamal as part of that package based both on his age, recent play, and his time here prior is horrible.
is melo really that much of a huge problem for the knicks or is that once again point guard play is not conducive to ball movement ; give up a guy who can still get 30 on any given night for a guy who may be able to get 20 once in a while just cause. the problem is not melo, iso ball and all; have a pg that can get ppl the ball instead of putting his head down and going to the basket with nice speed and supreme tunnel vision and you will see a change get rid of melo and keep rose and itll get worse cause if u think rose is playing for a contract now imagine when when he has seems ti think he has cause he is the very last superstar n the team.
dacash wrote:oh lord are we trying to convince ourselves that austin rivers is worth melo, seriously oh lord god forgive us we know not what we do
That's not the case at all. Obviously we hope for more. But if we are dealing Melo, Rivers is a good piece to get back. He fits well into a rebuilding situation.
dacash wrote:wargames wrote:dacash wrote:oh lord are we trying to convince ourselves that austin rivers is worth melo, seriously oh lord god forgive us we know not what we doHe's not...... but unfortunately Melo has limited what the Knicks can get for him. Rivers as part of a package isn't horrible because of his youth, and it appears he is trending upwards with his recent playtime. Jamal as part of that package based both on his age, recent play, and his time here prior is horrible.
is melo really that much of a huge problem for the knicks or is that once again point guard play is not conducive to ball movement ; give up a guy who can still get 30 on any given night for a guy who may be able to get 20 once in a while just cause. the problem is not melo, iso ball and all; have a pg that can get ppl the ball instead of putting his head down and going to the basket with nice speed and supreme tunnel vision and you will see a change get rid of melo and keep rose and itll get worse cause if u think rose is playing for a contract now imagine when when he has seems ti think he has cause he is the very last superstar n the team.
I agree. Things would change with a true playmaking PG. If Melo is the only iso player on the team, it's not a bad thing at all. I would rather get rid of Rose, but i think both are as good as gone.