Knicks · Austin Rivers (page 4)
BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.
Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
Business wise, owner would not have it. Also, what free agent to take his place to be with JR, Shump, and that crew?
Go back to that moment.
So in a way, what ever we get for Melo, is a sort of bonus.
Not to say we go out and do something dumb.
I think when Boston got Horford, the might not feel the need for Love. Boston has to look at clev as being vulnerable and then is there something they can do.
All this, and Melo has right of refusal.
Rivers has to look in the mirror and see Blake and Melo on the court together with Deandre clogging up the middle.
Know who sits next to Rivers every day. The man with the blackest beard in the galaxy.
Woodson.
I don't know, visions of Melo, Amare and Tyson all in the front court and it was messy at times. Im not saying Blake is Amare, but one could say otherwise. Im not saying Deandre is Tyson, but not me. Cp3 and Reddick are better than what we had.
Just a take fellas, just a take!
I do wish we were winning with Melo. He seems like a good dude who has been a good teammate. He's willing to take the massive criticism that comes with being the star of Knicks basketball. If 3-4 games go a little different, we're in the playoffs right now talking about how we need to maybe find ways to improve our roster at the deadline for the playoffs. I don't think Chicago or Charlotte are better than us. We have found a way to lose like 10 games on one possession. If we even win 4 of those, we're 25-24 right now, firmly in the playoffs. Just crazy. In all my years, I've never seen a team lose so many close games in such a short period. Despite knowing that, I also know we will never be a good defensive team with Melo, Noah and Rose in the same lineup. There just isn't a championship future or a great playoff run with this group. Trading Melo just makes sense at this point, as much as I was hoping that this season we would make a playoff run. If the best deal we can get is Austin Rivers and capspace, well that's what we got to take I guess. Rose will be a free agent as well. This will open up something like 45 million in capspace for this team. They can add maybe 2 starters with that money. Move players like Lee to the bench to make it stronger next year.
Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
Your applying sarcasm, correct?
failed policy for a generation is to obtain falling stars. We need to obtain rising stars.
Little Isiah Thomas and Dragic are two examples of guys who have risen under Horny. Maybe he sees Rivers as a good talent.
We need rising talent, and to do you it takes risk. Fans like sure names with solid reputations.
To take risks, one has to have a thick skin as media and then fans will grill those in charge.
Nalod wrote:Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
Your applying sarcasm, correct?
failed policy for a generation is to obtain falling stars. We need to obtain rising stars.
Little Isiah Thomas and Dragic are two examples of guys who have risen under Horny. Maybe he sees Rivers as a good talent.We need rising talent, and to do you it takes risk. Fans like sure names with solid reputations.
To take risks, one has to have a thick skin as media and then fans will grill those in charge.
This is a great point. You have to try to find these guys before they become really good. IT and Dragic were late bloomers in this regard.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
Your applying sarcasm, correct?
failed policy for a generation is to obtain falling stars. We need to obtain rising stars.
Little Isiah Thomas and Dragic are two examples of guys who have risen under Horny. Maybe he sees Rivers as a good talent.We need rising talent, and to do you it takes risk. Fans like sure names with solid reputations.
To take risks, one has to have a thick skin as media and then fans will grill those in charge.This is a great point. You have to try to find these guys before they become really good. IT and Dragic were late bloomers in this regard.
Also, we will miss on some.
Also, you have to clear time to allow players to grow!!! Shump and JR were never going to carry us, so you have to let them go. They were pending free agents.
Clearanthony had a huge setback with his knee, not saying he would have made it. We are letting Baker play, trying Jennings out, and also giving audition to Rose.
Holiday is also getting time to play.
I don't know if Rivers is a kid waiting to sprout and grow. Maybe His pops knows he can't play behind CP3 and he needs to trade him if he is ever to grow.
Im sure many like the brand name, and don't have confidence in Phil. If Gaines said "Hey, this kid is really developing", im sure we'd all like to know that. But we don't.
Maybe others can dig around and see if anyone sees this kid as still having upside.
Usually we fans have a take on a kid, its engrained and we don't change it.
EnySpree wrote:there is a middle ground. The LAC trade is selling Melo for pennies on the dollar. I know most want to move on and start the KP era but doing so by dumping Melo for fodder is bad start. Picks and young players are nice when they are GOOD. I dont want mediocre players bad. Rivers is not an impact player. It would be nice to get one player or one pick that has some real value. I dont see "this lets us move on" as adding real value. I mean watch Melo... He's still an impact player, can still take over games and can still hit big shots. You just dont give away talent... I would rather move Melo in the offseason if that is the deal on the table.Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
EnySpree wrote:Rookie wrote:so the Knicks trade their best player, don't get any salary relief, don't get any younger, don't get any starters and might get a pick 6 years from now....and you think that gets it done? What am I missing here?What would satisfy you? Jamal would have to be flipped to another team, meaning the Knicks would get something from that 3rd team. There's a few variables that need to be sorted out. But that framework is decent for the Knicks. The Knicks will have a few players to move around since it will be a 4 or 5 player trade for 1....
This isn't the Ewing trade. The Knicks are bad. We need to transition to the Kristaps era.
I would be satisfied with just keeping Melo...this trade makes absolutely no sense for the Knicks.
When K.P. develops a low post game, and can do something other than dunk and hit a 3pt shot, then we can talk about the "Kristap Era" and him being a "supastar"
fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:there is a middle ground. The LAC trade is selling Melo for pennies on the dollar. I know most want to move on and start the KP era but doing so by dumping Melo for fodder is bad start. Picks and young players are nice when they are GOOD. I dont want mediocre players bad. Rivers is not an impact player. It would be nice to get one player or one pick that has some real value. I dont see "this lets us move on" as adding real value. I mean watch Melo... He's still an impact player, can still take over games and can still hit big shots. You just dont give away talent... I would rather move Melo in the offseason if that is the deal on the table.Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
Exactly. Even if Rivers is on the "come up," the rumored trade is still terrible. We should get decent picks back and a couple of decent young players. We are under no obligation to give Melo away for nothing. We're mediocre, with or without Melo. We can wait for a better deal, even if that means waiting for the season to end.
BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:there is a middle ground. The LAC trade is selling Melo for pennies on the dollar. I know most want to move on and start the KP era but doing so by dumping Melo for fodder is bad start. Picks and young players are nice when they are GOOD. I dont want mediocre players bad. Rivers is not an impact player. It would be nice to get one player or one pick that has some real value. I dont see "this lets us move on" as adding real value. I mean watch Melo... He's still an impact player, can still take over games and can still hit big shots. You just dont give away talent... I would rather move Melo in the offseason if that is the deal on the table.Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
Exactly. Even if Rivers is on the "come up," the rumored trade is still terrible. We should get decent picks back and a couple of decent young players. We are under no obligation to give Melo away for nothing. We're mediocre, with or without Melo. We can wait for a better deal, even if that means waiting for the season to end.
Any deal after this trade deadline will be for cents on the dollar. Teams will pay premium(relative term here) if they have a reason to....PLAYOFF PUSH...AND PLAYOFFS...No one is taking a 33 year old SF making $27 mill with 2 yrs left for a 1st round pick....They will require us to give them a 1st just to do the deal.
The comments here are like Melo is 27-28...Melo as an asset is almost fully depreciated. If you try to sell your 2011 7 series for $90K that you paid in 2011 for the same price in 2017...you are sadly mistaken.
I agree we do not have to jettison him for garbage. But also remember, that the deals presented now will be radically different in the summer given Melo NTC this narrows your field considerably. Understand that teams do not need Melo in the summer. They need him for the playoff push this year not next.
Swishfm3 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Rookie wrote:so the Knicks trade their best player, don't get any salary relief, don't get any younger, don't get any starters and might get a pick 6 years from now....and you think that gets it done? What am I missing here?What would satisfy you? Jamal would have to be flipped to another team, meaning the Knicks would get something from that 3rd team. There's a few variables that need to be sorted out. But that framework is decent for the Knicks. The Knicks will have a few players to move around since it will be a 4 or 5 player trade for 1....
This isn't the Ewing trade. The Knicks are bad. We need to transition to the Kristaps era.
I would be satisfied with just keeping Melo...this trade makes absolutely no sense for the Knicks.
When K.P. develops a low post game, and can do something other than dunk and hit a 3pt shot, then we can talk about the "Kristap Era" and him being a "supastar"
Actually a good to great PG would immediately help KP get more great looks and you would already be saying he's a Superstar! I GUARANTEE that if KP was averaging 20 shots a game we'd be talking perennial All Star ⭐️
KP is still a baby in this league physically. He's only going to get stronger and more refined skills. Right now he's missing that PG that can get him lots of easy looks. You have to imagine a PG with skills and mentality like CP3 paired with KP for the next 10 years.
BigDaddyG wrote:this... there is too much anti Melo sentiment you have to filter through around here to hear the logic. I remember people talking about how set up the Nuggets were after that trade. Guess what? They had 2 first round exits and have missed the playoffs 4 straight years and continue to be in disarray.fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:there is a middle ground. The LAC trade is selling Melo for pennies on the dollar. I know most want to move on and start the KP era but doing so by dumping Melo for fodder is bad start. Picks and young players are nice when they are GOOD. I dont want mediocre players bad. Rivers is not an impact player. It would be nice to get one player or one pick that has some real value. I dont see "this lets us move on" as adding real value. I mean watch Melo... He's still an impact player, can still take over games and can still hit big shots. You just dont give away talent... I would rather move Melo in the offseason if that is the deal on the table.Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
Exactly. Even if Rivers is on the "come up," the rumored trade is still terrible. We should get decent picks back and a couple of decent young players. We are under no obligation to give Melo away for nothing. We're mediocre, with or without Melo. We can wait for a better deal, even if that means waiting for the season to end.
This is not a toxic situation unless Melo or the Knicks makes it that way. No pressure IMO.
BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:there is a middle ground. The LAC trade is selling Melo for pennies on the dollar. I know most want to move on and start the KP era but doing so by dumping Melo for fodder is bad start. Picks and young players are nice when they are GOOD. I dont want mediocre players bad. Rivers is not an impact player. It would be nice to get one player or one pick that has some real value. I dont see "this lets us move on" as adding real value. I mean watch Melo... He's still an impact player, can still take over games and can still hit big shots. You just dont give away talent... I would rather move Melo in the offseason if that is the deal on the table.Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
Exactly. Even if Rivers is on the "come up," the rumored trade is still terrible. We should get decent picks back and a couple of decent young players. We are under no obligation to give Melo away for nothing. We're mediocre, with or without Melo. We can wait for a better deal, even if that means waiting for the season to end.
He is one knee tweek away from a worse deal.
There is no right or wrong, and I agree with just about everyone. I want an impact asset back, but at the same time, Melo is like a new car. Every month he depreciates.
Phil is not reducing his value, GM's have video and know whats up. Melo got a NTC which renders good value in return OBJECTIVE in my view. There is no market valuation because the market has to want him.
Pierce and KG were seen by BKN as finishing pieces and placed a strong value. They were also trying to make a big splash and take the City.
Knicks have an agenda and we don't know what it is. All we know is this team was doing nicely and then hit a ceiling.
Nalod speculates Phil wants a LONG TERM CULTURE WITH A COACH AND PLAYERS TO ADHERE TO IT!!!
If so, you make decisions based on that long term templete cuz thats where your going. If you have a window were you can "win now and keep building", sort of what SAS has been doing, then you try. But if a player is unwilling to commit, then the decision is easy.
My take is melo is trying, but he just can't change his stripes and he is also chasing point totals for his HOF. Not all great players have chips. Long list that don't.
Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:there is a middle ground. The LAC trade is selling Melo for pennies on the dollar. I know most want to move on and start the KP era but doing so by dumping Melo for fodder is bad start. Picks and young players are nice when they are GOOD. I dont want mediocre players bad. Rivers is not an impact player. It would be nice to get one player or one pick that has some real value. I dont see "this lets us move on" as adding real value. I mean watch Melo... He's still an impact player, can still take over games and can still hit big shots. You just dont give away talent... I would rather move Melo in the offseason if that is the deal on the table.Caseloads wrote:ekstarks94 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Knixkik wrote:MS wrote:This trade is terrible. Rivers is a below average bench player, that has little room for improvement.This team suffers because our point guard isolates every time he has the ball keeps his head down and doesn't get shots for his teammates.
There aren't 10 guys in the league that can get you 24pts without a legislate point guard on their team. Maximize the guys talents and find a competent guard that defends and can move the ball. Doesn't need to be an all star.
This is just simply not true.
I agree. He's an average bench player. Trade would still be terrible.Disagree....Rivers is on the come up
No matter how much Rivers comes up, he will never be Melo.
You can only trade Melo for another Star. Blake or similar.
If that's what you think than you will never be happy and will talk about it for the rest of your life if it happens. No team is going to trade am all star for Melo. Why would we want that anyway? We need cap, young players and picks
Exactly. Even if Rivers is on the "come up," the rumored trade is still terrible. We should get decent picks back and a couple of decent young players. We are under no obligation to give Melo away for nothing. We're mediocre, with or without Melo. We can wait for a better deal, even if that means waiting for the season to end.
He is one knee tweek away from a worse deal.
There is no right or wrong, and I agree with just about everyone. I want an impact asset back, but at the same time, Melo is like a new car. Every month he depreciates.
Phil is not reducing his value, GM's have video and know whats up. Melo got a NTC which renders good value in return OBJECTIVE in my view. There is no market valuation because the market has to want him.
Pierce and KG were seen by BKN as finishing pieces and placed a strong value. They were also trying to make a big splash and take the City.
Knicks have an agenda and we don't know what it is. All we know is this team was doing nicely and then hit a ceiling.
Nalod speculates Phil wants a LONG TERM CULTURE WITH A COACH AND PLAYERS TO ADHERE TO IT!!!
If so, you make decisions based on that long term templete cuz thats where your going. If you have a window were you can "win now and keep building", sort of what SAS has been doing, then you try. But if a player is unwilling to commit, then the decision is easy.My take is melo is trying, but he just can't change his stripes and he is also chasing point totals for his HOF. Not all great players have chips. Long list that don't.
As a franchise Phil believes Melo is holding us back...Phil tried to introduce Melo to "The Process" of becoming a player that can win a title....he gave Melo the books coached him on the side... The problem is Melo was close to 30....if Phil got him at 23-24 I believe that we would see Olympic Melo on a regular basis.......Melo is not changing....when Baker is on the floor without Melo or Rose the ball moves....I am not saying Baker is a catalyst I am just saying as a example. If we are not making a push into the mid seeds...I say send Melo out...try not to take as much garbage and hope for the best....
I can tell you this...There is no way in HELL that KP will reach his potential until we get the right point guard....draft him, FA route, whatever......he needs he can grow with....