Knicks · Derek Fisher says he got more from less talented Knicks team.. (page 1)

holfresh @ 1/30/2017 4:21 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18587...

As he nears the one-year anniversary of his firing, Derek Fisher believes the New York Knicks were doing a better job with less talent when he was the head coach than how they currently are under Jeff Hornacek.

Fisher was fired on Feb. 8, 2016 by team president Phil Jackson after the Knicks started the season 23-31. The current Knicks are 21-28 entering Tuesday's game in Washington with a roster assembled to win now.

"We were able to take a team that wasn't as talented as the team they have now, and we were much better and much further along than this group is that they have now," Fisher told Bleacher Report. "Because the foundation was being laid.

"That's different than just trying to coach basketball -- and it takes longer. That's the part that you can't measure in wins and losses either. That's what we were doing the best at."

The Knicks have lost 15 of 20 games since Christmas. Hornacek, in his first year with the Knicks, has had to deal with plenty -- from Carmelo Anthony's relationship with Jackson, to Anthony trade rumors, Derrick Rose's one-game absence and injuries like Kristaps Porzingis' Achilles and Rose's sprained ankle.


Fisher says what bothers him was that all the positive he was doing with the Knicks was "overshadowed by actually-inaccurate opinion about a personal matter" in reference to his much-publicized run-in with former Lakers teammate Matt Barnes over Barnes' ex-wife.

After Jackson was hired to become the Knicks president, the legendary coach hired his former Lakers point guard Fisher to a five-year deal when Steve Kerr took the Warriors job. Fisher, though, didn't even make it two seasons before Jackson let him go.

"It was strange to me that it was cut short prior to really seeing it all the way through," Fisher said.

Fisher had never coached before taking the Knicks job, and he says it was even harder trying to execute what Jackson wanted, installing and teaching the triangle, as the Knicks were rebuilding.

"To observe something from the place that Phil has sat and experienced, you can't compare to that," Fisher said. "You can't try and say someone else isn't doing it the way possibly one of the greatest who has ever been able to do it, did it when he did it. They don't teach ninth-grade algebra the same way they used to teach ninth-grade algebra."

"One of the challenges for all of us was we were in the basketball department under the umbrella of Phil Jackson and who he was and who he is and what he was able to do as coach and leader," Fisher also explained. "Then [when you're] asking me as a head coach in a sense not to create the same results, but take the same system or way of playing and try and teach these guys how to play it -- and utilize it in similar ways as when he taught it -- I think at times it was more challenging for our players to really understand, 'Who am I committing myself to? Who am I selling myself to? Who am I running through the brick wall for?'"

Fisher went 17-65 in his first season with the Knicks in 2014-15. Fisher thought the Knicks were on the right path and that Porzingis was developing nicely when he was fired. But he admits that he and his former Lakers coach didn't mesh as they had hoped in their new roles as coach and president.

"We both didn't know exactly what we were doing," Fisher said. "Being the head coach is not like playing. Being president is not like being the head coach. That's one of the reasons why we didn't quite complete our meshing and blending of talents and thoughts, because those two positions are not always aligned."

In hindsight, Fisher admits that maybe he rushed into his Knicks job.

"When we're young, sometimes we're quick to go after the first or the newest or the shiniest opportunity that is in front of us, because we don't quite know any better," Fisher said. "The prettiest girl, the shiniest car, the best-looking house. Then once we open the door and walk inside the house, we realize the walls aren't painted, the foundation's cracked, the plumbing is leaking in the backyard and the pool is about to collapse.

"You don't see those things or you don't have a feel for the idea that you kind of have to inspect all of that before you decide to buy that house."

The first-time coach's reputation was damaged by the altercation with Barnes over Barnes' ex-wife, Gloria Govan, in Southern California where he flew to on an off-day during Knicks training camp. While Barnes was suspended for two games by the NBA for the incident, Fisher says that the judgement passed on his "character and integrity" had been difficult to deal with until recently.

"If the worst thing someone has to say about me is that I'm now going out with a woman who used to be married to this guy I worked with for a year six years ago," Fisher said before pausing according to Bleacher Report, "cool."


"I see how quickly it shifts and changes when people are told something they don't even know if it's true or not," Fisher added. "It's comical and hypocritical that we seem to live that way. For whatever reason, we've become that type of society. Particularly in sports. There's this tough-guy bravado culture we've created in sports -- where if you're not the toughest, baddest, craziest, strongest dude on the block, then you're maybe the softest dude on the block. Our point of reference with these things and how we judge someone else's situation so quickly is crazy to me. It is beyond crazy."

Fisher is still with Govan and works as a basketball television analyst.

"My life has gotten easier over the last several months," Fisher said. "Because there was so much judgment made and assumption passed through this situation that people read about on me, my character and my integrity that isn't true. So it has made it easier for me to focus on me.

"We were doing a lot of really good things with the Knicks. That's what bothers me. The good that was being done got overshadowed by opinion, actually -- inaccurate opinion about a personal matter. Nobody really knows what happened, because there's been just noise about what happened."

crzymdups @ 1/30/2017 4:26 PM
I agree with him.

I've said a few times I thought he was fired too early and I thought he was a better in-game coach than Hornacek has shown so far.

THAT SAID, he violated the player code of not messing with another player's girl and it seems he probably lost respect of the locker room and around the league by doing so. And that's just with the Barnes stuff. If the Hardaway and even Early rumors were true?? Dear gravy.

It's a waste, because I think tactically Fisher was actually a damn good coach. I could see him being a Mark Jackson or Doc Rivers level coach... but his screwing around may have cost him that chance, at least for a few years.

Vmart @ 1/30/2017 4:28 PM
Fisher got fired for his off court issues. The guy set a bad precedence I mean you ex teammates girl.
Chandler @ 1/30/2017 4:38 PM
oh man. not sure I agree at all. there were times he seemed totally clueless out there with rotations and what not

I agree his squad was much less talented and it is telling how the records are essentially similar

My take: Fisher was not a great coach; not a horrible one either. He was a bit dysfunctional with rotations, play calling etc. His team played hard

Hornacek I think is a good coach but on a currenty dysfunctional team with no identity (and if there is one I don't know it). Team's effort is inconsistent (still can't believe how putrid our 1st quarter D is this late into the season)

holfresh @ 1/30/2017 4:42 PM
Hornacek is better a coach based on experience and he has more of a semblance of a lineup and rotation...But Fisher could have done better with this group because he was more of a defensive minded coach with more vets on the squad..

Interesting that he feels Phil and he, Fisher, didn't know what they were doing in their roles...I would have to agree..
JonsTintedTails @ 1/30/2017 4:49 PM
I agree. Nothing against Fish but I think Horny is a better coach as well. I still think we must trade Melo and move on. I also think Rambis needs to go and for the love of god play defense.
smackeddog @ 1/30/2017 5:01 PM
The wheels had fallen off by the time he was fired- he had a good start like Hornacek and like him things went south around the same time.
Rookie @ 1/30/2017 5:09 PM
Fisher sounds like a 12 year old. He takes zero responsibility for the problems and all the credit for anything that went well. And from his analogy of buying a house, it sounds like he's never had to deal with buying a house personally. Just ridiculous. Grow up Fisher and STFU already.
yellowboy90 @ 1/30/2017 5:40 PM
I do wonder what Fisher would have done not confined to the triangle constraints because it seemed like every time he went away from the triangle the knicks did well.
smackeddog @ 1/30/2017 5:51 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:I do wonder what Fisher would have done not confined to the triangle constraints because it seemed like every time he went away from the triangle the knicks did well.

He showed zero ability to make any adjustments, especially in game

knicks1248 @ 1/30/2017 9:58 PM
smackeddog wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:I do wonder what Fisher would have done not confined to the triangle constraints because it seemed like every time he went away from the triangle the knicks did well.

He showed zero ability to make any adjustments, especially in game

It's kind of tough when someones looking over your shoulder telling you to run what i told you, not what you feel..

Knixkik @ 1/30/2017 10:06 PM
Vmart wrote:Fisher got fired for his off court issues. The guy set a bad precedence I mean you ex teammates girl.

Yup this is the reason. He wasn't a bad coach, but he crossed the line by nba standards which made it too tough to keep him employed as coach.

CrushAlot @ 1/30/2017 10:13 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:Fisher got fired for his off court issues. The guy set a bad precedence I mean you ex teammates girl.

Yup this is the reason. He wasn't a bad coach, but he crossed the line by nba standards which made it too tough to keep him employed as coach.

He also was going after his players' girls. Windhorst mentioned him going after Hardaway's girl on Lowe's podcast. There also were rumors that he was going after Early's girl but the sources weren't as mainstream as Windhorst.
EnySpree @ 1/30/2017 11:05 PM
Rookie wrote:Fisher sounds like a 12 year old. He takes zero responsibility for the problems and all the credit for anything that went well. And from his analogy of buying a house, it sounds like he's never had to deal with buying a house personally. Just ridiculous. Grow up Fisher and STFU already.

My thoughts exactly.

He's a scumbag

nyknickzingis @ 1/31/2017 8:23 AM
He got the team to play well defensively. No doubt about it. Same team like this year in terms of defensive talent. Not like last years team was flowing with defensive talent. The offense? Couldn't even average a 100 a game. In today's NBA? Come on.

Hornacheks offense is much better. We play in a way that if we had a good point guard who set up the offense, we could probably average 110 a night. Our sets and spacing is way better. KPs game is much more suited to Hornys offense. Derek can talk about Phils influence on offense, but he has the same influence on Horny and yet Horny gets the team to score and play at a better level.

I just don't like the defense. How much is that Horny? Probably on him but remember you have two types of players on this team. On decline past prime vets like Noah, Melo and Rose. None of whom have energy and capability to play hard on both sides for long. They conserve for one end. Then quite a few rookies and second year players like KP, Kuz, Willy, Baker whose defensive IQ isn't all that great.

We need to give Hornachek some young athletes. If he has a younger team and a point guard that can pass the ball effectively, I think he will prove to be a better coach than Fisher. I give Horny one more year.

holfresh @ 1/31/2017 8:28 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:He got the team to play well defensively. No doubt about it. Same team like this year in terms of defensive talent. Not like last years team was flowing with defensive talent. The offense? Couldn't even average a 100 a game. In today's NBA? Come on.

Hornacheks offense is much better. We play in a way that if we had a good point guard who set up the offense, we could probably average 110 a night. Our sets and spacing is way better. KPs game is much more suited to Hornys offense. Derek can talk about Phils influence on offense, but he has the same influence on Horny and yet Horny gets the team to score and play at a better level.

I just don't like the defense. How much is that Horny? Probably on him but remember you have two types of players on this team. On decline past prime vets like Noah, Melo and Rose. None of whom have energy and capability to play hard on both sides for long. They conserve for one end. Then quite a few rookies and second year players like KP, Kuz, Willy, Baker whose defensive IQ isn't all that great.

We need to give Hornachek some young athletes. If he has a younger team and a point guard that can pass the ball effectively, I think he will prove to be a better coach than Fisher. I give Horny one more year.


Jeff has more freedom to implement his style than Fisher did.....
Nalod @ 1/31/2017 10:08 AM
I think it was a rush to fire him. But there were other reasons. He all but admits he rushed into the job. Can't blame him, it was a great gig, one with pressure but also winning was not expected right away.
Kidd also had a hard time as a rookie coach in BKN. Takes some time to make transition.
As for his booty problems, do we know for sure he was messing with players girlfriends/wives other than Govan?
Her alone is not reason to be fired.
HofstraBBall @ 1/31/2017 10:29 AM
As you highlighted. Biggest take away is Phil had issues giving his coach full autonomy and that its hard for a GM to be the one establishing on court strategies. Coaches have to be allowed to coach what they feel best fits the roster. As they are around it every day.
Moonangie @ 1/31/2017 12:07 PM
Regardless of the win/loss ratio, I think Horny is doing a MUCH better job at rotations. If he were not stuck with a starting 5 that includes two ISO-Nonpassing-alphas who control the ball and do not look to involve teammates, it would be an even better setup for him. Hopefully he gets time to make his system work here. Also hopefully they build the team according to what will work around KP and co.
holfresh @ 1/31/2017 12:12 PM
Moonangie wrote:Regardless of the win/loss ratio, I think Horny is doing a MUCH better job at rotations. If he were not stuck with a starting 5 that includes two ISO-Nonpassing-alphas who control the ball and do not look to involve teammates, it would be an even better setup for him. Hopefully he gets time to make his system work here. Also hopefully they build the team according to what will work around KP and co.

Does KP pass the ball??
nyknickzingis @ 1/31/2017 1:08 PM
holfresh wrote:
Moonangie wrote:Regardless of the win/loss ratio, I think Horny is doing a MUCH better job at rotations. If he were not stuck with a starting 5 that includes two ISO-Nonpassing-alphas who control the ball and do not look to involve teammates, it would be an even better setup for him. Hopefully he gets time to make his system work here. Also hopefully they build the team according to what will work around KP and co.

Does KP pass the ball??

Actually KP passes the ball a lot. Don't confuse assists with ball movement
When KP gets the ball up high at the arc he usually swings or right away. He won't look for his shot right away he will set a screen or spot up and play off Rose or Jennings or Melo.

The ball just doesn't move much when Melo and Rose have it. There are times they do better but most of the time it's a one on one play.

KPs value in a team setting is much higher as he can set a screen, pop or be a spot up threat all without touching the ball. He facilitates the offense without holding the ball.

If we had a great point guard to play with him this team and everything would look completely different. Rose is a shooting guard.

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