Knicks · Why does Boston want to keep the Nets pick? (page 1)
KP4Life wrote:Isn't Isaiah Thomas basically their superstar now? They really want to draft a pg? Aren't the best picks in the draft all pgs? Unless they are considering drafting Josh Jackson it seems kinda dumb to draft Ball or Fultz.
I think Portland had the same logic when Michael Jordan was draftable and Clyde Drexel was on the roster.
knicks1248 wrote:I think they are just being patient with the picks until the right deal presents it's self..Whats the rush, their 2nd in the east, and getting better every year. They make good trades that dont set them back.
Nah I just think Boston is lucky. They made weird draft choices and stockpiled picks that didn't amount to anything. They are winning because of coaching and the mentality of the players of the team. They are a rough team. Their players don't back down. Isaiah Thomas was good but to be all star good? Mvp candidate good? Dumping 40+pts on fools? Nobody saw that.
hope that answers your question
knicks1248 wrote:I think they are just being patient with the picks until the right deal presents it's self..Whats the rush, their 2nd in the east, and getting better every year. They make good trades that dont set them back.
I don't see the Bulls trading Butler or the Jazz trading Hayward. They are a good team but Melo could make them a great team. They just want to be cheap
KP4Life wrote:Isn't Isaiah Thomas basically their superstar now? They really want to draft a pg? Aren't the best picks in the draft all pgs? Unless they are considering drafting Josh Jackson it seems kinda dumb to draft Ball or Fultz.
IT2 aka PizzaGuy is a treadmill player.
He's good enough to get you enough regular season wins so you never get the high draft pick you need to get an impact blue chip franchise player. But he's not good enough to bring you to contender status by himself. He's a classic "Nellieball" player, he would have fit right in the old Run TMC Warriors or the Finley/Dirk/Nash Mavericks.
For a guy who was the last pick in the 2nd round in his draft, he is an incredible value. He gives everything he has on the floor every night. If he can't do more, it's because he simply doesn't have the ability to do so. He is a defensive liability and during playoff ball, his weaknesses as a starter will get exposed. However he is a fun player who plays the right way. He can be lethal as a 2nd unit guy on a contender, but he's too old now to garner value on a cost controlled deal for a contender.
This is why teams have kept moving on from him, even though he's a very good player. The Knicks would be lucky to have IT2, but Melo would hate him, because the fans would love him. This would be like the movie Gladiator, IT2 would be Maximus, the fanbase in NY would love the guy, absolutely love him to death. Melo would be the moody son, Commodus, who is jilted because he's not more popular because he's entitled.
The Knicks could never have IT2 on the roster with Melo here. Melo would never pass him the ball ( not that Melo passes the ball anyway, but in this situation, it would be literally never at all) Melo would drive him off the roster. If Melo played as hard as IT2, Melo would be a top 5 player in league history easily. Melo is that talented, but talent isn't enough, you also have to actually care about team basketball.
No team will give anything more than the bare minimum that their trade leverage dictates that they have to give to acquire Melo in a trade. NY fans would expect the same if the situations were reversed.
The good test of a trade is asking yourself would you accept this trade if you were the other teams fanbase and GM. Most trades proposed here are trade rapes for that very reason. Most trades proposed here are lopsided gut ripping offers that would get other teams front offices fired and destroyed in the press and ripped to shreds by their ownership. Quite literally, the best deals are "win/win" situations, where both sides have something to gain and something to lose.
"Leverage" in the NBA marketplace is everything. Most trade proposals here don't care about that though. Most trade proposals here are offers that the same fans would decry as trade rapes of they were wearing the opposite shoes on the opposite feet and the other teams fans or GM.
Just like real life, some trade offers are like an aging fat chick with bad credit and chipped teeth who wants a rich hung dude who looks like a male model who tell her she never has to work or cook again. Or a 400O pound guy living in his uncles basement and hasn't washed in 23 years wanting a SI Swimsuit model for a GF. Lack of understanding of leverage isn't just an issue in sports fandom.
nixluva wrote:Boston does know the value of adding the proven vet at the right time. That's how they won their last Title. I don't see the value of holding on to the pick when you know your team is THAT CLOSE!!! IMO you spend that pick and grab a sure thing in Melo who you know is going to be able to carry a team for stretches that just might make the difference in a playoff series. Meanwhile that draft pick MAY or MAY NOT end up where you want it and for who you may be thinking you'll get and then you still have to hope he's not a BUST. IMO that's not a good risk to take when you are that close to being able to knock off the defending champs and get to the FINALS. Plus you have a ton of Picks and stashed players already.
A Melo deal does seem like a no Brainer. Boston is close enough to nyc for him to come home and see his family.
As far as the team situation... they are current playing and winning with a hole at the 2 and 4 spot. They been rotating Amir and Jerebko and actually starting the rookie Jaylen Brown at shooting guard. Isiah Thomas has been going off. The deal works for the Knicks if we could get Amir, Jerebko, Jaylen Brown and that nets pick. Boston can start Melo next to Crowder and Hortford with Isiah and the crew in the back court. That's a dangerous team. Amir and Jerebko are expiring. Jaylen is a future piece... I want Lonzo Ball!
On flip side remember when celts tanked to try and get #1 pick for Duncan
They had two lottery picks but the way the ball bounced SAS ended up w Duncan
Celts ended up w billups (and misused him) and Mercer.
ESOMKnicks wrote:They problably think that Melo is not worth a high first round pick, as he is getting old and slowing down. It makes sense. You wouldn't want the Knicks to trade KP for a 32 year old declining superstar, would you? Ie KP for CP3 right now?
Not saying Boston should - but that is a different scenario - they are loaded with talent and picks - we have the bare minimum.
EnySpree wrote:All jokes aside.... Boston should keep doing what they are doing. They have the luck of the Irish. They could get the #1 pick and the potential to sustain winning over a longer period of time. That's great. I'm sure Celtics fans are happy as fuck
yup... people keep talking about how they trade the picks because they can't everyone blah blah blah... The guys that might not get the minutes can be traded draft night for more picks. I know guys like Marcus Smart haven't necessarily blossomed the way some of their fans were hoping for but if the Cs draft an elite PG this year, they'll be able to turn Smart (and whoever else) into more legiitmate assets
http://nesn.com/2017/02/nba-rumors-celti...
NBA Rumors: Celtics’ International Draft Picks Drawing Trade Interest by NESN Staff on Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 5:33PM16The Boston Celtics have the second-best record in the Eastern Conference and own the assets needed to acquire a superstar player before the Feb. 23 NBA trade deadline. Boston’s 2017 first-round pick swap with Brooklyn Nets gets all the attention, and rightly so. The Nets sit at the bottom of the league standings, and barring a surprising rise, they will remain there through the end of the season. That would give the C’s the best chance to win the No. 1 overall pick from the draft lottery in May. This pick isn’t the only valuable asset the Celtics could dangle at the trade deadline. International players drafted by Boston last year, a group highlighted by forward Guerschon Yabusele (16th pick) and center Ante Zizic (23rd pick), are drawing interest from rival teams, per Sean Deveney of the Sporting News. “The assets being overlooked in discussing potential Celtics deals, though, are the draft-and-stash players the Celtics selected last year when they had three first-rounders and three second-rounders,” Deveney writes. “As much as the Celtics’ trove of picks in the next two years, NBA sources said, it is those players who are attracting pre-deadline attention.” “They did a nice job of getting guys they could develop, and if you know you can’t get the big picks they have this year or next year, the players they took last year, that is where you can get a lot of value,” one general manager told Sporting News. The Celtics actually have too many assets. There aren’t enough roster spots for the current players, plus previous draft picks and upcoming 2017 selections. Something has to give for the C’s before next season. If an elite player becomes available, the Celtics have to be all over it. And based on the treasure chest of assets Boston has at its disposal, teams looking to make a major move would be foolish not to pick up the phone and make C’s president of basketball operations Danny Ainge their first call.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2017/02/nba-rumors-celtics-international-draft-picks-drawing-trade-interest/
Ainge is definitely making a move before the trade deadline for vet help or he might end up losing some of these players due to the numbers game.
They have 4 picks this draft. 4 stash players from the last 2 years where 2 of them were 1st rounders. They have a slew of youngins in their roster.
I think that if they want to make a move this year then need another scorer. Melo or Rose fits the bill.
I would do a Melo for Amir Johnson, Jerebko, Smart, Rights to Zizic and a future 1st rounder.
or
Rose for Amir Johnson, Jerebko and Rights to Zizic.
nixluva wrote:Boston does know the value of adding the proven vet at the right time. That's how they won their last Title. I don't see the value of holding on to the pick when you know your team is THAT CLOSE!!! IMO you spend that pick and grab a sure thing in Melo who you know is going to be able to carry a team for stretches that just might make the difference in a playoff series. Meanwhile that draft pick MAY or MAY NOT end up where you want it and for who you may be thinking you'll get and then you still have to hope he's not a BUST. IMO that's not a good risk to take when you are that close to being able to knock off the defending champs and get to the FINALS. Plus you have a ton of Picks and stashed players already.
WHAT?
This year's draft has some talent that could be franchise level and that Brooklyn pick will probably be top 3. And you think that adding Melo would push Boston in the playoffs? Have you watched him? He can barely carry the Knicks for a quarter or 2. And he doesn't play defense and he renders every other player on the court useless.
If you are a team like CLE and could add Melo at the cost of ONLY a top 3 draft pick (ie. not losing any of their starters) and wanted to make sure you had the fire power off the bench to match GSW or SA, then maybe you do it; Boston is NOT in that situation.
SupremeCommander wrote:EnySpree wrote:All jokes aside.... Boston should keep doing what they are doing. They have the luck of the Irish. They could get the #1 pick and the potential to sustain winning over a longer period of time. That's great. I'm sure Celtics fans are happy as fuckyup... people keep talking about how they trade the picks because they can't everyone blah blah blah... The guys that might not get the minutes can be traded draft night for more picks. I know guys like Marcus Smart haven't necessarily blossomed the way some of their fans were hoping for but if the Cs draft an elite PG this year, they'll be able to turn Smart (and whoever else) into more legiitmate assets
Smart is actually a huge part of what they do. He's hurt now, but alot of times he's out there in the fourth quarter closing out games. They go small too when they have all hands on deck. Smart can play the 3 for stints. Smart could start for us no doubt.... but that's a big past of why they are winning. They have quality players that play hard and move the ball.
EnySpree wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:EnySpree wrote:All jokes aside.... Boston should keep doing what they are doing. They have the luck of the Irish. They could get the #1 pick and the potential to sustain winning over a longer period of time. That's great. I'm sure Celtics fans are happy as fuckyup... people keep talking about how they trade the picks because they can't everyone blah blah blah... The guys that might not get the minutes can be traded draft night for more picks. I know guys like Marcus Smart haven't necessarily blossomed the way some of their fans were hoping for but if the Cs draft an elite PG this year, they'll be able to turn Smart (and whoever else) into more legiitmate assets
Smart is actually a huge part of what they do. He's hurt now, but alot of times he's out there in the fourth quarter closing out games. They go small too when they have all hands on deck. Smart can play the 3 for stints. Smart could start for us no doubt.... but that's a big past of why they are winning. They have quality players that play hard and move the ball.
I guess my point is that Boston has a surplus of young players that would probably get bigger roles on most other teams... which is why fans of other teams are demanding that they trade players like Smart (among others)
martin wrote:nixluva wrote:Boston does know the value of adding the proven vet at the right time. That's how they won their last Title. I don't see the value of holding on to the pick when you know your team is THAT CLOSE!!! IMO you spend that pick and grab a sure thing in Melo who you know is going to be able to carry a team for stretches that just might make the difference in a playoff series. Meanwhile that draft pick MAY or MAY NOT end up where you want it and for who you may be thinking you'll get and then you still have to hope he's not a BUST. IMO that's not a good risk to take when you are that close to being able to knock off the defending champs and get to the FINALS. Plus you have a ton of Picks and stashed players already.WHAT?
This year's draft has some talent that could be franchise level and that Brooklyn pick will probably be top 3. And you think that adding Melo would push Boston in the playoffs? Have you watched him? He can barely carry the Knicks for a quarter or 2. And he doesn't play defense and he renders every other player on the court useless.If you are a team like CLE and could add Melo at the cost of ONLY a top 3 draft pick (ie. not losing any of their starters) and wanted to make sure you had the fire power off the bench to match GSW or SA, then maybe you do it; Boston is NOT in that situation.
I watch a lot of college and have read up a lot on this draft. I am not sure if there is anyone with Franchise changing upside. I think this draft is incredibly deep and will have a few all-stars and probably a few more fringe-all-star-types, but i don't see a consensus top tier prospect. Towns, Davis, Giannis, Porzingis, Embiid, etc i don't see that type of potential game-changer. I think Fultz and Ball might be great, but maybe on the Lillard/Kyrie Irving level. Just a step below franchise caliber player, if that makes sense. Obviously that's up to interpretation, but that is just how i view it. But this is one of the strongest top 10s in a long time. All of the top 10 have a chance to be all-star caliber players.
SupremeCommander wrote:Also, Boston did real well dealing a lotto pick for Ray Allen... I don't necessarily think they will keep it, they just aren't trying to give it away
They are holding out for a big name player (younger than Melo) to finally go on the market. Jimmy Butler is the obvious target, but there may be others. Who knows, maybe Ainge thinks he has a legit chance at someone like Anthony Davis. Far fetched for sure, but with New Orleans going nowhere fast, if they miss the playoffs by a mile, maybe in the summer if Boston lands the #1 pick, do they consider Jaylen Brown, the #1 pick, Brooklyn 2018 pick, and Memphis 2019 pick for Davis? Probably not, but you never know.