Knicks · Phil the ill subliminal (page 2)
EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?
CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?
wait phil nixed the lowry trade?
CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?
It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
Phil didn't have enough picks to come in right away and look to rebuild. That's a huge factor in his trying to make playoff runs, which is all he's been doing. Let's be real he hasn't been talking competing for a title. He's just been trying to put at best a winning roster together which every GM tries to do.
Ultimately he should be judged on what he builds around KP and Willy, since they look like the beginning of a new core for this franchise. That's a good start. He's got picks in the bank and assets to possibly trade for more.
nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are awesome and a great start. Kuz, Baker, Plumlee and hopefully N'dour are great finds for nothing other than their contracts. But to ignore his tenure here and his influence during the 37 win season wouldn't be fair. Also, his pushing the triangle, Rambis etc. I think Hornacek is a really good coach and a great hire but I can't not think that Rambis and the triangle push have sabotaged this season some.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
Phil didn't have enough picks to come in right away and look to rebuild. That's a huge factor in his trying to make playoff runs, which is all he's been doing. Let's be real he hasn't been talking competing for a title. He's just been trying to put at best a winning roster together which every GM tries to do.Ultimately he should be judged on what he builds around KP and Willy, since they look like the beginning of a new core for this franchise. That's a good start. He's got picks in the bank and assets to possibly trade for more.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are awesome and a great start. Kuz, Baker, Plumlee and hopefully N'dour are great finds for nothing other than their contracts. But to ignore his tenure here and his influence during the 37 win season wouldn't be fair. Also, his pushing the triangle, Rambis etc. I think Hornacek is a really good coach and a great hire but I can't not think that Rambis and the triangle push have sabotaged this season some.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
Phil didn't have enough picks to come in right away and look to rebuild. That's a huge factor in his trying to make playoff runs, which is all he's been doing. Let's be real he hasn't been talking competing for a title. He's just been trying to put at best a winning roster together which every GM tries to do.Ultimately he should be judged on what he builds around KP and Willy, since they look like the beginning of a new core for this franchise. That's a good start. He's got picks in the bank and assets to possibly trade for more.
To be sure Phil has had his problems but really do you think ANY Knicks GM would have smooth sailing in this job? 
I think we have to accept that part of the nature of the job in NY is going to entail some strange decision making due to Dolan's influence and directives. Even with a stable guy like Donnie Walsh we ended up with some odd moves. I just don't think it's possible to have a GM operate in NY without the unnecessary crap from Dolan on top.
Sure Phil added on his Triangle and Rambis bit, but overall Horny has been able to mix in some Triangle with his stuff after all. Going forward I think this will work just fine. What's more important is for Phil to do a better job with the balance on this roster. He keeps ending up with unnecessary logjams at certain positions. We have too many Bigs. This is where Phil jams up his coach with his lack of acceptance that this is more of a guard oriented league.
Phil must be planning for a trade or else why carry Ndour and Plumlee all year when you have Noah, KOQ, KP and Willy? I think his mind was always on the possibility of cleaning house at some point.
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are awesome and a great start. Kuz, Baker, Plumlee and hopefully N'dour are great finds for nothing other than their contracts. But to ignore his tenure here and his influence during the 37 win season wouldn't be fair. Also, his pushing the triangle, Rambis etc. I think Hornacek is a really good coach and a great hire but I can't not think that Rambis and the triangle push have sabotaged this season some.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
Phil didn't have enough picks to come in right away and look to rebuild. That's a huge factor in his trying to make playoff runs, which is all he's been doing. Let's be real he hasn't been talking competing for a title. He's just been trying to put at best a winning roster together which every GM tries to do.Ultimately he should be judged on what he builds around KP and Willy, since they look like the beginning of a new core for this franchise. That's a good start. He's got picks in the bank and assets to possibly trade for more.
To be sure Phil has had his problems but really do you think ANY Knicks GM would have smooth sailing in this job?
Sure Phil added on his Triangle and Rambis bit, but overall Horny has been able to mix in some Triangle with his stuff after all. Going forward I think this will work just fine. What's more important is for Phil to do a better job with the balance on this roster. He keeps ending up with unnecessary logjams at certain positions. We have too many Bigs. This is where Phil jams up his coach with his lack of acceptance that this is more of a guard oriented league.
Phil must be planning for a trade or else why carry Ndour and Plumlee all year when you have Noah, KOQ, KP and Willy? I think his mind was always on the possibility of cleaning house at some point.
I think Phil was given an opportunity for clean sailing. I don't think he has handled things in away that would allow that. Putting Rambis on Hornacek's staff as associate head coach in charge of defense and pushing the triangle hasn't helped. Putting Rambis, Cleamons etc., on Fisher's staff didn't help. Trading guys that had value but needed to go were traded at any cost and didn't help the future. His scouts have been great. I think he did a great job hiring Jeff but I think he needs to let him coach. With the way things have gone I think he needs to move, waive or let Rose expire. He might have messed up not signing Randle over Plumlee/Ndour but all three guys are likable.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are awesome and a great start. Kuz, Baker, Plumlee and hopefully N'dour are great finds for nothing other than their contracts. But to ignore his tenure here and his influence during the 37 win season wouldn't be fair. Also, his pushing the triangle, Rambis etc. I think Hornacek is a really good coach and a great hire but I can't not think that Rambis and the triangle push have sabotaged this season some.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
Phil didn't have enough picks to come in right away and look to rebuild. That's a huge factor in his trying to make playoff runs, which is all he's been doing. Let's be real he hasn't been talking competing for a title. He's just been trying to put at best a winning roster together which every GM tries to do.Ultimately he should be judged on what he builds around KP and Willy, since they look like the beginning of a new core for this franchise. That's a good start. He's got picks in the bank and assets to possibly trade for more.
To be sure Phil has had his problems but really do you think ANY Knicks GM would have smooth sailing in this job?
Sure Phil added on his Triangle and Rambis bit, but overall Horny has been able to mix in some Triangle with his stuff after all. Going forward I think this will work just fine. What's more important is for Phil to do a better job with the balance on this roster. He keeps ending up with unnecessary logjams at certain positions. We have too many Bigs. This is where Phil jams up his coach with his lack of acceptance that this is more of a guard oriented league.
Phil must be planning for a trade or else why carry Ndour and Plumlee all year when you have Noah, KOQ, KP and Willy? I think his mind was always on the possibility of cleaning house at some point.
I think Phil was given an opportunity for clean sailing. I don't think he has handled things in away that would allow that. Putting Rambis on Hornacek's staff as associate head coach in charge of defense and pushing the triangle hasn't helped. Putting Rambis, Cleamons etc., on Fisher's staff didn't help. Trading guys that had value but needed to go were traded at any cost and didn't help the future. His scouts have been great. I think he did a great job hiring Jeff but I think he needs to let him coach. With the way things have gone I think he needs to move, waive or let Rose expire. He might have messed up not signing Randle over Plumlee/Ndour but all three guys are likable.
It's possible that Phil had Carte Blanche but I don't know for sure if that's the case. In NY you can never be 100% sure of the pressures or at least the implied directives to make sure you have a full arena. In any event I think Phil has a chance to really finish off his career here with a bang if he gets things right this Trade Deadline and this summer. These are the critical set of decision points for him. He's gotta get things right in these 2 key periods of activity.
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are awesome and a great start. Kuz, Baker, Plumlee and hopefully N'dour are great finds for nothing other than their contracts. But to ignore his tenure here and his influence during the 37 win season wouldn't be fair. Also, his pushing the triangle, Rambis etc. I think Hornacek is a really good coach and a great hire but I can't not think that Rambis and the triangle push have sabotaged this season some.CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:Can we agree that his plan wasn't to lose at the rate that he has. The first year he really misjudged things but recovered well and turned it into the 4th pick in the draft. But he has been trying to win. Listening to Gaines, Mills and his scouts is a positive. If Phil has autonomy he was allowed to tank. Phil being allowed to trade Melo removes all doubts about autonomy for me.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:It's not the triangles fault. When you hold the ball no offense can be run....
140-117 before the triangle. 71-144 since triangle. 3 out of 4 years the Knicks made the playoffs before Phil with Melo. The fourth year Phil nixed the Lowry trade and Woodson got no support. Phil's teams still haven't been able to sniff 37 wins. Does this years team have more talent than the 37 win team in Woodson's last year?It's a bit unfair to go by the Win/Loss record. Phil did this franchise a solid by Quickly moving to Tank Mode in the one year that mattered most!!! I don't care what other moves you wanna slam Phil over but KP and Willy were worth the losing in my book! I wouldn't take it back for some meaningless wins. Perhaps if Phil was allowed to truly Tank there would be fewer detractors of the job he's done.
Phil's clearly been doing a shadow rebuild behind these Playoff attempts. He's left himself with a path to quickly rebuild with youth. Can't really knock that aspect of what he's been doing.
Phil didn't have enough picks to come in right away and look to rebuild. That's a huge factor in his trying to make playoff runs, which is all he's been doing. Let's be real he hasn't been talking competing for a title. He's just been trying to put at best a winning roster together which every GM tries to do.Ultimately he should be judged on what he builds around KP and Willy, since they look like the beginning of a new core for this franchise. That's a good start. He's got picks in the bank and assets to possibly trade for more.
To be sure Phil has had his problems but really do you think ANY Knicks GM would have smooth sailing in this job?
Sure Phil added on his Triangle and Rambis bit, but overall Horny has been able to mix in some Triangle with his stuff after all. Going forward I think this will work just fine. What's more important is for Phil to do a better job with the balance on this roster. He keeps ending up with unnecessary logjams at certain positions. We have too many Bigs. This is where Phil jams up his coach with his lack of acceptance that this is more of a guard oriented league.
Phil must be planning for a trade or else why carry Ndour and Plumlee all year when you have Noah, KOQ, KP and Willy? I think his mind was always on the possibility of cleaning house at some point.
I think Phil was given an opportunity for clean sailing. I don't think he has handled things in away that would allow that. Putting Rambis on Hornacek's staff as associate head coach in charge of defense and pushing the triangle hasn't helped. Putting Rambis, Cleamons etc., on Fisher's staff didn't help. Trading guys that had value but needed to go were traded at any cost and didn't help the future. His scouts have been great. I think he did a great job hiring Jeff but I think he needs to let him coach. With the way things have gone I think he needs to move, waive or let Rose expire. He might have messed up not signing Randle over Plumlee/Ndour but all three guys are likable.
It's possible that Phil had Carte Blanche but I don't know for sure if that's the case. In NY you can never be 100% sure of the pressures or at least the implied directives to make sure you have a full arena. In any event I think Phil has a chance to really finish off his career here with a bang if he gets things right this Trade Deadline and this summer. These are the critical set of decision points for him. He's gotta get things right in these 2 key periods of activity.
Let's hope. I think the contract he was able to give Fish as a rookie coach and the fact that he can trade Melo = autonomy.