Knicks · Phil's Silence... (page 2)
knicks1248 wrote:why is phil sabbatoging everything he builds
I think its one of two reasons...Melo made him look bad when he commented on Phil's "posse" rant, so Phil wants him gone or getting rid of Melo makes the final two years of his contract an easy ride..There will be no pressure to win..
holfresh wrote:knicks1248 wrote:why is phil sabbatoging everything he buildsI think its one of two reasons...Melo made him look bad when he commented on Phil's "posse" rant, so Ohil wants him gone or getting rid of Melo makes the final two years of his contract an easy ride..There will be no pressure to win..
I think Phil should be looking to break this up. Why should he keep it together? This team was given a chance to prove what it was but it's not working out. Phil has a chance to really rebuild since he has picks. Why shouldn't he want to push in that direction? Melo needs to accept the reality that it's not gonna happen here in NY. He tried but it just didn't work out. Melo can move on to a winning team and finish out his career. No shame in that.
wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.
Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
It's obvious that the ball isn't flowing as it should. Melo can thrive in ugly basketball but the rest of the players can't function that way. IMO the problem is Rose not actually being a PG looking to create for others, as he stated he would be. Then Melo also not continuing to look to make his teammates better.
It's not just in games but in practice they should be working on playing off of each other. They've looked like STRANGERS and it makes no sense after all this time. They never found any chemistry together. Don't you think that's strange for the top 3 of a team to have ZERO CHEMISTRY???
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
It's obvious that the ball isn't flowing as it should. Melo can thrive in ugly basketball but the rest of the players can't function that way. IMO the problem is Rose not actually being a PG looking to create for others, as he stated he would be. Then Melo also not continuing to look to make his teammates better.
It's not just in games but in practice they should be working on playing off of each other. They've looked like STRANGERS and it makes no sense after all this time. They never found any chemistry together. Don't you think that's strange for the top 3 of a team to have ZERO CHEMISTRY???
If you listen to the studio guys, they hate Phil for screwing with the team when they were playing well..
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
It's obvious that the ball isn't flowing as it should. Melo can thrive in ugly basketball but the rest of the players can't function that way. IMO the problem is Rose not actually being a PG looking to create for others, as he stated he would be. Then Melo also not continuing to look to make his teammates better.
It's not just in games but in practice they should be working on playing off of each other. They've looked like STRANGERS and it makes no sense after all this time. They never found any chemistry together. Don't you think that's strange for the top 3 of a team to have ZERO CHEMISTRY???
If you listen to the studio guys, they hate Phil for screwing with the team when they were playing well..
If I recall correctly the losing started before Phil was rumored to be looking to trade Melo. How did Phil screw with the team after he backed off the Triangle? At some point the players have to be responsible for giving max effort and trying to play team ball. IMO that isn't about Phil.
All year it's been about effort and sticking with ball movement. If the effort isn't there or the ball sticks that's not on Phil.
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
It's obvious that the ball isn't flowing as it should. Melo can thrive in ugly basketball but the rest of the players can't function that way. IMO the problem is Rose not actually being a PG looking to create for others, as he stated he would be. Then Melo also not continuing to look to make his teammates better.
It's not just in games but in practice they should be working on playing off of each other. They've looked like STRANGERS and it makes no sense after all this time. They never found any chemistry together. Don't you think that's strange for the top 3 of a team to have ZERO CHEMISTRY???
If you listen to the studio guys, they hate Phil for screwing with the team when they were playing well..If I recall correctly the losing started before Phil was rumored to be looking to trade Melo. How did Phil screw with the team after he backed off the Triangle? At some point the players have to be responsible for giving max effort and trying to play team ball. IMO that isn't about Phil.
All year it's been about effort and sticking with ball movement. If the effort isn't there or the ball sticks that's not on Phil.
They were 14-10 when a reporter asked Melo about Rosen's article..Melo's response was Why now when things are going well..So Phil's decision wasn't because of the team's failure like you are trying to insinuate..But Phil had it with Melo and want him gone..Winning has nothing to do with it..
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
It's obvious that the ball isn't flowing as it should. Melo can thrive in ugly basketball but the rest of the players can't function that way. IMO the problem is Rose not actually being a PG looking to create for others, as he stated he would be. Then Melo also not continuing to look to make his teammates better.
It's not just in games but in practice they should be working on playing off of each other. They've looked like STRANGERS and it makes no sense after all this time. They never found any chemistry together. Don't you think that's strange for the top 3 of a team to have ZERO CHEMISTRY???
If you listen to the studio guys, they hate Phil for screwing with the team when they were playing well..If I recall correctly the losing started before Phil was rumored to be looking to trade Melo. How did Phil screw with the team after he backed off the Triangle? At some point the players have to be responsible for giving max effort and trying to play team ball. IMO that isn't about Phil.
All year it's been about effort and sticking with ball movement. If the effort isn't there or the ball sticks that's not on Phil.
They were 14-10 when a reporter asked Melo about Rosen's article..Melo's response was Why now when things are going well..So Phil's decision wasn't because of the team's failure like you are trying to insinuate..But Phil had it with Melo and want him gone..Winning has nothing to do with it..
I agree with this.
There was a players meeting in November when the team said they wanted to go away from the Triangle. Melo may have been most vocal. I think it pissed Phil off. But he definitely made his comments when the Knicks were playing their best ball of the season.
crzymdups wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
It's obvious that the ball isn't flowing as it should. Melo can thrive in ugly basketball but the rest of the players can't function that way. IMO the problem is Rose not actually being a PG looking to create for others, as he stated he would be. Then Melo also not continuing to look to make his teammates better.
It's not just in games but in practice they should be working on playing off of each other. They've looked like STRANGERS and it makes no sense after all this time. They never found any chemistry together. Don't you think that's strange for the top 3 of a team to have ZERO CHEMISTRY???
If you listen to the studio guys, they hate Phil for screwing with the team when they were playing well..If I recall correctly the losing started before Phil was rumored to be looking to trade Melo. How did Phil screw with the team after he backed off the Triangle? At some point the players have to be responsible for giving max effort and trying to play team ball. IMO that isn't about Phil.
All year it's been about effort and sticking with ball movement. If the effort isn't there or the ball sticks that's not on Phil.
They were 14-10 when a reporter asked Melo about Rosen's article..Melo's response was Why now when things are going well..So Phil's decision wasn't because of the team's failure like you are trying to insinuate..But Phil had it with Melo and want him gone..Winning has nothing to do with it..I agree with this.
There was a players meeting in November when the team said they wanted to go away from the Triangle. Melo may have been most vocal. I think it pissed Phil off. But he definitely made his comments when the Knicks were playing their best ball of the season.
Some dumb comments from an article shouldn't be enough to cause a team to fall apart like the Knicks did. That's kind of a poor excuse for not playing the game the way you're supposed to. Some dumb comments are made and suddenly you can't defend or pass the ball anymore? I don't buy it. If anything it's should make a player more determined to prove them wrong. How about trying to average 5-7 assists? Why didn't that become the response?
Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
Yep, don't see why people don't get that. There was a piece saying he's determined to give the team a fresh start after he's traded melo (and presumably Rose) at the all star break. It's best he doesn't address the press until then- if he says we are trading Melo, then other teams can low ball him because then they know he HAS to move him. Same with Rose. If we're rebuilding then it serves no purpose for Phil to do an interview before he's shifted the players he wants to move.
fwk00 wrote:It would be idiocy for Phil to say anything until after the February trade deadline passes or until a transaction of some kind is made. You don't give away your negotiating positions for a feel good moment with a player or two. That's crazy.
Just as you can't coach effort, you can't issue a memo or interview and get it either. Waste of time and no matter what he says he loses.Professional players need to step up and give it their best every game no matter what happens. We've had teams with more heart in the last ten years - even Phil's first two Knicks teams lost but were worth rooting for.
Exactly. Plus I don't see the media demanding The Bulls president speaks, or the Bucks president addresses their situation right now.
smackeddog wrote:The problem with comparing the bulls and bucks situation is in the previous post you agreed that Phil is being calculated and trying to make Melo feel uncomfortable. Phil has put himself out there. He does have a ghost writer who is communicating a message that Phil has never denied and got an extreme reaction from Melo. Playing games with guys to motivate them might work if you see them and coach them on a daily basis. The team and coaching staff certainly haven't responded by winning or working things out.fwk00 wrote:It would be idiocy for Phil to say anything until after the February trade deadline passes or until a transaction of some kind is made. You don't give away your negotiating positions for a feel good moment with a player or two. That's crazy.
Just as you can't coach effort, you can't issue a memo or interview and get it either. Waste of time and no matter what he says he loses.Professional players need to step up and give it their best every game no matter what happens. We've had teams with more heart in the last ten years - even Phil's first two Knicks teams lost but were worth rooting for.
Exactly. Plus I don't see the media demanding The Bulls president speaks, or the Bucks president addresses their situation right now.
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:Phil and his lady thought it was appropriate to put out a public statement when they broke up...How about the status or direction of the Knicks, Phil???..And who thought Phil's breakup was news worthy???
I don't see how that would make sense right now. He's got to let this play out before he says anything. What's he gonna say? "Yeah I'm trying to trade Melo and Rose but it's hard" Phil can't talk until there's something to actually say.
Phil is doing what he needs to. He is trying to get out of Melo's contact. I blame him for the contact in the first place. But I have zero issues with him trying to trade Melo. And honestly I am glad he hasn't taken to tweeting everything he does. We already have quite enough of that going on. All he did was call Melo out for ball stopping. And since then all the Melo apologists have been trying to tear him down.
No reason to hear him talk right now. Melo is the leader of the team that's getting blown out at home every night. He needs to talk. Hornacek has been talking and not complaining. Horny is keeping it real. Melo has to accept responsibility. Lebron just win a championship and went on a tirade about how his team needs help. If he was losing like NY he would be publicly executing teammates every week until sometime stepped up to play
Melo wants the ball he doesn't want to pass. This is his team. Phil went out and got Rose and Jennings because we needed a point guard. He went and got Noah to help in the locker room. He went out and got one of the best percentage shooting 2s in the game. Kuz, Willy.... wtf do you want?
It's clear Phil will continue to the youth movement. He had no reason to build around a superstar that can't win even when he gets help. Melo just had to deal with it or ask to be traded. I don't need Phil to come out and say it. That's just what it is
smackeddog wrote:exactly.. but this is the Knicks where posters believe the GM should address them directly.fwk00 wrote:It would be idiocy for Phil to say anything until after the February trade deadline passes or until a transaction of some kind is made. You don't give away your negotiating positions for a feel good moment with a player or two. That's crazy.
Just as you can't coach effort, you can't issue a memo or interview and get it either. Waste of time and no matter what he says he loses.Professional players need to step up and give it their best every game no matter what happens. We've had teams with more heart in the last ten years - even Phil's first two Knicks teams lost but were worth rooting for.
Exactly. Plus I don't see the media demanding The Bulls president speaks, or the Bucks president addresses their situation right now.
If a news article derails your season it wasnt mean to be. End of story. Phil should be quiet right now working on moving Melo and Rose and thats it.
SupremeCommander wrote:I'm starting to wonder if the old man was looking for one last cash grab
He had other opportunities. Dolan made him an offer he could not refuse.
That does not mean he does not want to win, or is sabotaging the job.
crzymdups wrote:Phil has always been about building a team atmosphere and team ethos... that's been his biggest failure here.I get that he wanted to trade Melo, but his little mind games with Melo in December seemed to completely derailed this season. On the hand you can say, "yeah Melo has to be tougher than that"... on the other hand you can say "what the hell was Phil thinking." The team was building chemistry and faith in each other... I think Phil was pouting because they had abandoned the Triangle at that player's meeting (which Phil was present for) to get their win streak going.
I don't think his statement had anything to do with the team playing badly. The statement was mostly praise for Melo, even comparing him to Jordan/Kobe. My god, that's a huge compliment from Phil. All Phil said is Melo needs to move the ball quicker, and it was in response to a specific question about how hard it is to get a system run with someone like Melo. There was no slight there. Now the Rosen article and all that has happened in the last few weeks, that's a different story. That's Phil playing mind games and trying to force Melo to either play at a superstar level or force out, I do think Phil has messed up with that. It wasn't the right thing to do.
But the reason we are no good is the way Melo and Rose (more Rose) approached this season. They were all raving about having never played with this much talent before. Yet, neither Melo or Rose were willing to change the way they played. The Miami Heat had a similar situation at first with Wade/James/Bosh. Not saying these guys are as good with KP as that trio. But teams struggle at times. In our case what happened is Rose and Melo never did what James and Wade did. James and Wade altered their games a little, allowing others to be involved and being able to share the offense. They took so much passion and effort into their defense. Rose and Melo neither show any leadership on offense nor do they give a damn about defense.
The only veteran who came this year with the right attitude who was serious about winning was Jennings. Jennings once scored 50 in a game, and averaged 17 points a season. He's in a contract year. He could have played like Lou Williams. Instead he played like a real point guard, mistakes and all (because truth is he's not even naturally a pass first point guard, he is trying to become one now). If Rose and Melo came into this season with the same attitude as BJ which was - max defensive effort, pass first, shoot second, leadership - this team would have been top 5 in the East right now, easy. That's not on Phil at all.
I also think Hornachek deserves considerable blame. He has been inflexible with lineups and roles with regards to starters. Melo always at the 3. KP always at the 4. Rose always at the 1. Try something different, maybe? How can that hurt? A good coach adapts when teams don't show good results, Spoelstra in Miami moved Bosh to 5, Bron to 4 and changed roles for Wade as well. He figured things out after a slow start. That's good coaching there as well.
Where Phil has failed in my book is that he has not step in. He allows Hornachek to mess up, allows Rose and Melo to play this stupidly. And his only reaction is cheap shots from Rosen and trade talk. As a coach he would have stepped in and gotten on Rose and Melo for how they were playing. There's no way he would have tolerated this type of mentality from any of his teams. So why does he let Horny just sit back and take this? Maybe Phil is actually happier with the way things are going and that the team is going to get a lottery pick. There's no other explanation in my book.