Knicks · Phil's Silence... (page 3)
When the team started to struggle, I think they were 16-17 and starting to show signs of a team that was going down, KP said he didn't think the team played well at 14-10, rather that they were getting by on individual talent.
Once teams began to scout us a bit better and once Rose started getting injured (in/out of the lineup) and KP hurt his achilles (he has never been the same since) the talent was not the same talent as 14-10. They went from having a 21 points a night KP to a 14 points a night inconsistent foul prone KP. That alone is a huge set back. They went from having Rose to no Rose and it messed up rotations.
The start was all about how great KP was playing and Rose's individual scoring added to the team. We weren't defending well back then either. Even at 14-10, I was looking at our scoring differential and we were being outscored by almost 3 points in our games. ESPN's predictor still had us doing bad eventually. Once KP got hurt and Rose got a few injuries, that was it.
I think the chemistry with this group never developed. The blame game can be shared by Melo, Rose, Horny and Phil. However most good teams, their vets and stars are unselfish when they get together. They have to be. They have to commit to defense. Can anyone with a straight face tell me that Melo and Rose came into this season with the same attitude KG and Pierce got when they teamed up? Or Bron and Wade? The way these two played was all about one one one play, no defensive effort. That's the easiest was to develop a poor culture all around.
nixluva wrote:I actually don't mind his silence. Right now all that matters is what he's going to actually do from this point. He's got work to do and I'm sure this game pretty much made up Phil's mind that this mix of players isn't worth keeping together.He gave it one last shot with Melo. He can move on with a clean slate. What can Melo say when Phil gave him the vets he asked for? Now it's time to move Melo and rebuild.
agreed 100%. I think the Melo deal was a smart move at the time. Melo gave back some (5 mill IIRC) but wanted a NTC. Seemed ok. Hindsight is 20/20
Keep in mind, that Phil is big into "transformational" thinking, not transactional. I think he was counting on Melo "transforming" into a more complete player -- and he did for a brief moment last year.
and as far as comments about mind games go, that's the media's creation. Phil said melo holds onto the ball a little too long. He did not trash Melo and frankly he could have been a lot harsher but wasn't, e.g., criticizing inconsistent effort for example no effort on D and little on offense if he doesn't have the ball. It was the media that turned that into a bigger story and has every one believing he's playing mind games. Instead what I see is a thin-skinned prima donna wanting more in the way of compliments and assurances than giving a good hard look in the mirror and asking himself if he's leading by example.
So why would Phil go out there and talk to these media clowns. The best thing he can do is speak through his actions, and unfortunately for the impatient that takes time
Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
agreed. and if nothing else he might knock melo off his high horse. In the beginning of the year Melo pouted because he was only ranked 15th in the NBA. Now he's missed an all star game and is being considered trade bait for expiring contracts. If that doesn't sober melo up nothing will
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Chandler wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.agreed. and if nothing else he might knock melo off his high horse. In the beginning of the year Melo pouted because he was only ranked 15th in the NBA. Now he's missed an all star game and is being considered trade bait for expiring contracts. If that doesn't sober melo up nothing will
That's not Phil's job. He needs to come to grips with NBA reality in the modern day. Also, Phil isn't going to be around for a rebuild so we are just giving him money for nothing at this point. Jokes on the fans and the organization. There isn't any master plan coming from Phil. Giving him way to much credit here.
Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
SwishAndDish13 wrote:Chandler wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.agreed. and if nothing else he might knock melo off his high horse. In the beginning of the year Melo pouted because he was only ranked 15th in the NBA. Now he's missed an all star game and is being considered trade bait for expiring contracts. If that doesn't sober melo up nothing will
That's not Phil's job. He needs to come to grips with NBA reality in the modern day. Also, Phil isn't going to be around for a rebuild so we are just giving him money for nothing at this point. Jokes on the fans and the organization. There isn't any master plan coming from Phil. Giving him way to much credit here.
why isn't it? go back and read Phil. he had more compliments for Melo than not. What we are seeing is that the rest of the NBA knows what many Knicks fans know. Melo is a very good one-way player, no defense, no hustle and as a #1 option bad for team chemistry. Sheesh it's not like we're hearing any teams tripping over themselves to try and attract melo to their team
holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
So now it comes down to how do you build? How do you move forward? Hard to move forward with Melo commanding and using the plays as an alpha. The team needs freedom. You see how the 2nd unit plays with KP. The ball moves. It doesn't stick. The most succesful way to play right now in the league is to have an attacking guard that can get into the paint and pass the ball while also having a big that can roll, spot up or cut. Neither describe Melo.
Team needs freedom. Ball needs to move. Energy on defense. These things are impossible with Melo as your leader. All the years Melo has played in NY, his teams have rarely been good at moving the ball or playing as a team. This is pre-Phil. Look at the D'Antoni era. Woodson era. Even then, same issues. This is something that has to at some point be addressed. One year where Jason Kidd took over as leader and captain of the team on both ends doesn't count. Tyson was a big part of that defensive intensity as well. Melo just isn't someone you can build a winning team around. The Knicks should look to the longterm and find assets that can help them in the longrun.
nyknickzingis wrote:Phil wants Melo gone because Melo is keeping the Knicks neither here or there. Melo is in it for his scoring record, for his love of the city and being the man in NY. He's not in it to win. He would still be a Knick if they lost every single year of his contract. That's not a competitor that wants to win titles. Then it is about how he plays. Melo plays isolation heavy basketball. Go look around the league how many non-all stars (which Melo now is, he is not even a top 20 player anymore) who play isolation heavy basketball lead their teams to the playoffs? If Melo were Jordan or Kobe or someone of that level you could justify his way of playing because he was so good and dominant a scorer that he could carry you to wins all by himself. He's a really good scorer, but not one you can build your offense around.I have been a big Melo supporter over the years but this post is 100% true. I have always tried to call it like I see it, and what I see from Melo this year is exactly what you have outlined above. I have no doubt Melo wants to win, but if he has those things in bold he's clearly not driven.So now it comes down to how do you build? How do you move forward? Hard to move forward with Melo commanding and using the plays as an alpha. The team needs freedom. You see how the 2nd unit plays with KP. The ball moves. It doesn't stick. The most succesful way to play right now in the league is to have an attacking guard that can get into the paint and pass the ball while also having a big that can roll, spot up or cut. Neither describe Melo.
Team needs freedom. Ball needs to move. Energy on defense. These things are impossible with Melo as your leader. All the years Melo has played in NY, his teams have rarely been good at moving the ball or playing as a team. This is pre-Phil. Look at the D'Antoni era. Woodson era. Even then, same issues. This is something that has to at some point be addressed.
I really hate the idea of taking pennies on the dollar, but an unprotected pick from the Cavs or LAC along with salary relief at this point makes sense. They just need to move on.
fishmike wrote:smackeddog wrote:exactly.. but this is the Knicks where posters believe the GM should address them directly.fwk00 wrote:It would be idiocy for Phil to say anything until after the February trade deadline passes or until a transaction of some kind is made. You don't give away your negotiating positions for a feel good moment with a player or two. That's crazy.
Just as you can't coach effort, you can't issue a memo or interview and get it either. Waste of time and no matter what he says he loses.Professional players need to step up and give it their best every game no matter what happens. We've had teams with more heart in the last ten years - even Phil's first two Knicks teams lost but were worth rooting for.
Exactly. Plus I don't see the media demanding The Bulls president speaks, or the Bucks president addresses their situation right now.
If a news article derails your season it wasnt mean to be. End of story. Phil should be quiet right now working on moving Melo and Rose and thats it.
Do you have any evidence that phil will make a deal that benefits the franchise, has he proven to you that he is capable of making a smart trade that will makes us better now and in the future. Which one of this trade where you estatic about, and I'll leave out the throw in's
Was it the
Tysons expiring contract- caldron, larkin and a 2nd rnd pick
Shumpert and jr for pure trash
THJ for Grant
Rose, for calderon, lopez and grant
Mind you, calderon was entering the last yr of his contract, oh wait, that open up cap space to sign NOAH and sometimish LEE instead of ERIC Gordon. But I'm almost 1000% sure if Lee was in Houston playing for MDA, he would be killing it right now.
All of these moves as put us no where.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to trade rose or melo now, if they continue to lose, you better your lottery odds, if they somehow start winning, then you know you may have something, and then you make better move in the off season.
Maybe Lebron knew it would irk Melo so he made "posse" a thing because the media would have to ask Melo what he thought.
Lebron, he is 5 steps ahead of all of us. Maybe 4 steps ahead of Nalod, 10 steps ahead of others.
Chandler wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:Chandler wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.agreed. and if nothing else he might knock melo off his high horse. In the beginning of the year Melo pouted because he was only ranked 15th in the NBA. Now he's missed an all star game and is being considered trade bait for expiring contracts. If that doesn't sober melo up nothing will
That's not Phil's job. He needs to come to grips with NBA reality in the modern day. Also, Phil isn't going to be around for a rebuild so we are just giving him money for nothing at this point. Jokes on the fans and the organization. There isn't any master plan coming from Phil. Giving him way to much credit here.
why isn't it? go back and read Phil. he had more compliments for Melo than not. What we are seeing is that the rest of the NBA knows what many Knicks fans know. Melo is a very good one-way player, no defense, no hustle and as a #1 option bad for team chemistry. Sheesh it's not like we're hearing any teams tripping over themselves to try and attract melo to their team
He's made very few public statements. Those he has made are all over the planet and not consistent. In regards to trading Melo, I think this is more an issue with the state of the league more so than the player. It's really hard to structure a deal given his contract and the ridiculous match rule. Plus only 3 teams tops are a arguably a piece away highlighting a huge competitive balance issue. Melo has his flaws but could be a good piece for a team 1 piece away. The problem is structuring the deal. Big names simply aren't being traded even those without NTCs.
Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
Your joking right..Your out of your mind if you think so. So he is caculating flipping the roster every few months. This is NYC, were not fools, or niaive.
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.Your joking right..Your out of your mind if you think so. So he is caculating flipping the roster every few months. This is NYC, were not fools, or niaive.
+1 - At this point he's just playing out the string to cash those checks.
Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
knicks1248 wrote:Not true at all... JR/Tyson/Shump are ALL trash and I am glad they are gone. They needed to be jettisoned. Eric Gordon is revisionist history. Dude hasnt played close to to whole season since his rookie deal and you would be crying the same tune if Phil signed him only to see him get hurt. The Lee deal is very good. You can hate Noah all you want but he will end up being a good player for us post Melo/Rose. He's a ball mover playing with 3 ball stoppers. Despite being hurt a ton he's still been one of the leagues best offensive rebounders and has a top 10 defensive rating. Noah/KP/Willy/KOQ is a very good and young frontcourt moving forward.fishmike wrote:smackeddog wrote:exactly.. but this is the Knicks where posters believe the GM should address them directly.fwk00 wrote:It would be idiocy for Phil to say anything until after the February trade deadline passes or until a transaction of some kind is made. You don't give away your negotiating positions for a feel good moment with a player or two. That's crazy.
Just as you can't coach effort, you can't issue a memo or interview and get it either. Waste of time and no matter what he says he loses.Professional players need to step up and give it their best every game no matter what happens. We've had teams with more heart in the last ten years - even Phil's first two Knicks teams lost but were worth rooting for.
Exactly. Plus I don't see the media demanding The Bulls president speaks, or the Bucks president addresses their situation right now.
If a news article derails your season it wasnt mean to be. End of story. Phil should be quiet right now working on moving Melo and Rose and thats it.
Do you have any evidence that phil will make a deal that benefits the franchise, has he proven to you that he is capable of making a smart trade that will makes us better now and in the future. Which one of this trade where you estatic about, and I'll leave out the throw in's
Was it the
Tysons expiring contract- caldron, larkin and a 2nd rnd pick
Shumpert and jr for pure trash
THJ for Grant
Rose, for calderon, lopez and grant
Mind you, calderon was entering the last yr of his contract, oh wait, that open up cap space to sign NOAH and sometimish LEE instead of ERIC Gordon. But I'm almost 1000% sure if Lee was in Houston playing for MDA, he would be killing it right now.
All of these moves as put us no where.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to trade rose or melo now, if they continue to lose, you better your lottery odds, if they somehow start winning, then you know you may have something, and then you make better move in the off season.
Phil's had 1 first rounder to work with and probably has set us up with an excellent frontcourt for the future. Plenty to be confident with in Phil, you are just in waaaa waaaa must blame someone mode everyday and every night here. You literally post the same thing every day in every thread. Its fine, I get it, but Tyson and Shump were due to get paid, so no team is going to offer a big package for guys who are a flight risk, and both guys got big deals that I would NOT want them here for. You miss JR?
holfresh wrote:If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:Phil has always been about building a team atmosphere and team ethos... that's been his biggest failure here.I get that he wanted to trade Melo, but his little mind games with Melo in December seemed to completely derailed this season. On the hand you can say, "yeah Melo has to be tougher than that"... on the other hand you can say "what the hell was Phil thinking." The team was building chemistry and faith in each other... I think Phil was pouting because they had abandoned the Triangle at that player's meeting (which Phil was present for) to get their win streak going.
I don't think his statement had anything to do with the team playing badly. The statement was mostly praise for Melo, even comparing him to Jordan/Kobe. My god, that's a huge compliment from Phil. All Phil said is Melo needs to move the ball quicker, and it was in response to a specific question about how hard it is to get a system run with someone like Melo. There was no slight there. Now the Rosen article and all that has happened in the last few weeks, that's a different story. That's Phil playing mind games and trying to force Melo to either play at a superstar level or force out, I do think Phil has messed up with that. It wasn't the right thing to do.But the reason we are no good is the way Melo and Rose (more Rose) approached this season. They were all raving about having never played with this much talent before. Yet, neither Melo or Rose were willing to change the way they played. The Miami Heat had a similar situation at first with Wade/James/Bosh. Not saying these guys are as good with KP as that trio. But teams struggle at times. In our case what happened is Rose and Melo never did what James and Wade did. James and Wade altered their games a little, allowing others to be involved and being able to share the offense. They took so much passion and effort into their defense. Rose and Melo neither show any leadership on offense nor do they give a damn about defense.
The only veteran who came this year with the right attitude who was serious about winning was Jennings. Jennings once scored 50 in a game, and averaged 17 points a season. He's in a contract year. He could have played like Lou Williams. Instead he played like a real point guard, mistakes and all (because truth is he's not even naturally a pass first point guard, he is trying to become one now). If Rose and Melo came into this season with the same attitude as BJ which was - max defensive effort, pass first, shoot second, leadership - this team would have been top 5 in the East right now, easy. That's not on Phil at all.
I also think Hornachek deserves considerable blame. He has been inflexible with lineups and roles with regards to starters. Melo always at the 3. KP always at the 4. Rose always at the 1. Try something different, maybe? How can that hurt? A good coach adapts when teams don't show good results, Spoelstra in Miami moved Bosh to 5, Bron to 4 and changed roles for Wade as well. He figured things out after a slow start. That's good coaching there as well.
Where Phil has failed in my book is that he has not step in. He allows Hornachek to mess up, allows Rose and Melo to play this stupidly. And his only reaction is cheap shots from Rosen and trade talk. As a coach he would have stepped in and gotten on Rose and Melo for how they were playing. There's no way he would have tolerated this type of mentality from any of his teams. So why does he let Horny just sit back and take this? Maybe Phil is actually happier with the way things are going and that the team is going to get a lottery pick. There's no other explanation in my book.
Totally. That's an excellent point. The contrast between Jennings and Rose/Melo is so apparent. Hope those two go and we extend Jennings.
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, culture change, right...