fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, culture change, right...
holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, culture change, right...
Byron Scott is the last person you really want to use as a judge for phil.
holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...
right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.
This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.
Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.
Phil Jackson was at practice today - sat down with Horny even.
To me it seems Phil just wants a rebuild to start soon and is more invested in things he did and brought to the team than what was already here.
Melo is the last piece left from the Dantoni/Woodson era. I'm interested to see how much Phil truly just wants Melo gone to change the long lasting enduring culture of the Knicks that is selfish play on offense and lax D.
Is is really Melo that brings such a culture? We will only find out once Melo is traded.
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...
right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.
Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.
My agenda is to tell it like it is...And not coddle the boy wonder or Phil can't do wrong...
holfresh wrote:wargames wrote:At this point I am more worried about how Melo and Rose phase KP out on the offense and how that his hindering his growth.
Melo was 10-17 in 37 mins...Not unusual..Rose 2-8 in 32 mins, low shot attempt for him, rusty, KP 5-14 in 33 mins...How is KP being phased out???
If you watched the game almost all of KPs good looks came in the 4th when Melo and Rose were out. It's been a major problem for the team. Melo, Rose and KP don't optimize each other. That's not on Melo and Rose alone it's also on KPs desire to play more like Dirk than say a typical hard screen setting, good roll big. KP likes to play the Dirk role and doesn't get that with Melo and Rose. When with the second unit he does get it.
I blame everyone - Melo, Rose, coaches, KP in that order. KP has the least blame because he's played 120 games in his career and it's on the vets and coaching staff to help guide him. Instead our vets are too busy looking for their own number. The coaches have also failed to make adjustments to help the big 3 play better. How about trying Melo at 4 KP at 5 and Rose at 2? Horny has made no adjustments.
So yeah KP can evolve and should maybe stop trying to be Dirk when he plays with Melo n Rose. However long term ask yourself do we Knick fans want KP to be like a franchise player like Dirk or do we want him to be a great role player? Melo and Rose may need a role player now but the franchise needs KP to develop into a star.
nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson was at practice today - sat down with Horny even.To me it seems Phil just wants a rebuild to start soon and is more invested in things he did and brought to the team than what was already here.
Melo is the last piece left from the Dantoni/Woodson era. I'm interested to see how much Phil truly just wants Melo gone to change the long lasting enduring culture of the Knicks that is selfish play on offense and lax D.
Is is really Melo that brings such a culture? We will only find out once Melo is traded.
Melo is liked by his teammates. Always has been. Its probably part of the problem. He's clearly not comfortable pushing those guys. Thats just a personality thing, not even a knock on Melo. But he's become such a big thing both as a player and a presence and a guy in the league. You cant ask him to change here... its just not happening. He had his shot
Phil complimented Melo, then said he needs to move the ball more.
THis is not a killer statement or public problem.
Phil is looking at deals that would suit melo. Fans are not happy. This is not
Phil throwing Melo under the bus!
This is basketball.
but, if one must, where is melo in all this? Aren't max dudes suppose to do things that help his club?
SwishAndDish13 wrote:I didn't see anybody bring this up in the thread but I found it interesting that Breen and Frazier brought up how Phil's silence is ridiculous and somebody in the FO should be addressing the insanity and that hanging Melo out to dry as the spokesman for the organization is unfair to him and the fans. Was pretty surprised they said this on the broadcast.
Whatever Phil is doing he is doing it for a reason and to drive an outcome.
He is basically in the process of forcing Me7o out of town --- that is basically the end goal right now and he is 100% correct in working towards that goal.
Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
This can't be more obvious --- I put this 95% of Melo because we've seen this over and over with teams he's been the so-called best player on. I've never seen a so called star player who's teammates constantly refuse to play for and that says it all.
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...
right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.
Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.
So taking a team that was a dissapointment with 37 wins to a team that has been 71-146 has not been a disappointment? Met your expectations? What record and how many years of 40 and under wins would you consider it to be a failure on his part? That way I know when to chime back in on the matter. Think the hate for Phil, as you call it, is that there seems to be zero accountability from a guy that places blame on everyone except himself. Btw, can we clear up the fact that KP was because of Phil. Thought it was Gaines pushing his value. You make it seem as though he would have picked him at 1,2 or 3.
I don't know about all you guys complimenting Jennings.
I liked him initially but all I've seen for the most part is a guy who is playing sloppy offensively and awful/dumb defensively who has his biggest moments when the game is completely out of reach in the 2nd half. Then after either getting blown by on the court or after the team gets killed during the game -- he is there with the tough comments (despite being a major contributor to the poor play).
Jennings = Clubhouse Lawyer to a degree
nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson was at practice today - sat down with Horny even.To me it seems Phil just wants a rebuild to start soon and is more invested in things he did and brought to the team than what was already here.
Melo is the last piece left from the Dantoni/Woodson era. I'm interested to see how much Phil truly just wants Melo gone to change the long lasting enduring culture of the Knicks that is selfish play on offense and lax D.
Is is really Melo that brings such a culture? We will only find out once Melo is traded.
Think he wakes up every day and hopes its groundhog day. That way he can take back Noah and Rose decisions. But that was probably Melo's fault too.
LivingLegend wrote:SwishAndDish13 wrote:I didn't see anybody bring this up in the thread but I found it interesting that Breen and Frazier brought up how Phil's silence is ridiculous and somebody in the FO should be addressing the insanity and that hanging Melo out to dry as the spokesman for the organization is unfair to him and the fans. Was pretty surprised they said this on the broadcast.
Whatever Phil is doing he is doing it for a reason and to drive an outcome.
He is basically in the process of forcing Me7o out of town --- that is basically the end goal right now and he is 100% correct in working towards that goal.
Not doing anything bc he is trying to drive an outcome by doing nothing and he has a good reason for it. His doing nothing isn't only impacting Melo, so if it some strange way you think it is building towards a goal then I guess I'm happy for you. At least he's pulled the wool over somebody's eyes.
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...
right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.
Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.
So taking a team that was a dissapointment with 37 wins to a team that has been 71-146 has not been a disappointment? Met your expectations? What record and how many years of 40 and under wins would you consider it to be a failure on his part? That way I know when to chime back in on the matter. Think the hate for Phil, as you call it, is that there seems to be zero accountability from a guy that places blame on everyone except himself. Btw, can we clear up the fact that KP was because of Phil. Thought it was Gaines pushing his value. You make it seem as though he would have picked him at 1,2 or 3.
If Phil drafts a bust its on him. So lets end the "this was Gaines" pick nonsense. KP was his pick. So was Willy. So was signing Kuz. So was KOQ and his nice deal.
Notice my bolded statement above. Phil certainly failed to get this team into the playoffs this year. I said it there, and I will say it now. The REAL question is does that make Phil a bad GM? Or someone that can rebuild this franchise? I am saying based on what I have seen the answer is YES. Others are saying that based on this year and not getting great assets back for guys like Shump/JR/Tyson that Phil has shown nothing that suggests this. I wholly disagree with that and cited the Isiah example.
I am sure the Knicks could have packaged KP/Lopez/Grant for Boogie Cousins. Than maybe use this year's #1 and a 2019 #1 for some help at PG. I am really glad we have moved away from that kind of thinking.
Its ok to say Phil has failed with this squad. I cant argue that. Does that make him a bad GM? I dont think so, and I am confident he will continue to take us in the right direction based on the young players he's brought in, how he's used the draft and the fact that his failures will not prevent us from rebuilding as Isiah's did. He had to resign Melo. He had to try to field a playoff team around him. Failing in that endevor wont hurt us long term. Every GM makes mistakes. The good ones bounce back. The bad ones hurt your franchises for years. Isiah set us back a decade. Phil took a 37 win team and started over. If you wanted to throw more money, picks and future assets at building around Tyson/Amare/Melo/Shump/JR than I am happy to disagree with you there.
HofstraBBall wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson was at practice today - sat down with Horny even.To me it seems Phil just wants a rebuild to start soon and is more invested in things he did and brought to the team than what was already here.
Melo is the last piece left from the Dantoni/Woodson era. I'm interested to see how much Phil truly just wants Melo gone to change the long lasting enduring culture of the Knicks that is selfish play on offense and lax D.
Is is really Melo that brings such a culture? We will only find out once Melo is traded.
Think he wakes up every day and hopes its groundhog day. That way he can take back Noah and Rose decisions. But that was probably Melo's fault too.
Offseason Phil asked Melo "are we moving fast enough for you?"
The the Knicks trade for Rose and give big contracts to Lee and Noah. You see no connection?
holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...
right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.
Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.
My agenda is to tell it like it is...And not coddle the boy wonder or Phil can't do wrong...
this is some of your best work mate... This is like saying "I am not partisan, I just like Trump because he calls it like it is and doesnt cater to the whiny media or pathetic liberals."
Good stuff. Carry on. Hows the Eddy Curry trade looking? 
fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:fishmike wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Chandler wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.
At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.
I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?
Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.
Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).
Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...
All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...
When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company
Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media
For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done
You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...
Rose took 8 shots yesterday...
If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective. Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.
Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.
You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...
right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.
Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.
My agenda is to tell it like it is...And not coddle the boy wonder or Phil can't do wrong...
this is some of your best work mate... This is like saying "I am not partisan, I just like Trump because he calls it like it is and doesnt cater to the whiny media or pathetic liberals."Good stuff. Carry on. Hows the Eddy Curry trade looking?
Every game thread, Melo gets the blame for KP's play no matter the outcome...Is it really so hard to say KP didn't have a good game...You are complicit to this behavior when you say you call it like it is...
