I know there has been a lot of back and forth about the impact of Rose and Melo on KP and the team in general, so I wanted to do one of my usual Breakdowns to highlight the points I've been trying to make.
It's not JUST Rose and Melo but they are the BIGGEST sources of the lack of ball and player movement and stagnation. This leads to lower energy and bad shooting from the rest of the team. ON top of that the lack of D from Rose and Melo simply makes it even worse.
Here is a set that is supposed to be a version of my favorite KP play but rather than having Kuz as the Post player and Sasha setting a great pick, we have Melo in the Post and KOQ setting the Pindown for KP. It was HORRIBLE. Melo never waits and looks to pass. He goes right into his post move and KOQ's Screen is OK but his man is able to get back out to KP since Melo doesn't deliver the pass. Also Rose's lack of 3pt threat allows his man to slip into the paint.
This play is again the very simple play with lots of passing options for Melo if he's willing. KP is WIDE OPEN and Melo just ignores him. Melo forces into a double and turns it over.
Here Melo should pass out to CLee for the open 3 since Swaggy P leaves to come double.
Here Rose gets the Screen from KP and puts his head down and drives into a double but never looks for KP who slides back behind the 3pt line and is wide open or even the dump off to KOQ.
There are more examples but I think this is a good idea of just why things are so bad at the start of games. If Melo and Rose were more interested in TEAM BALL and actually made the defense work harder by passing the ball it would completely transform the offense. The lack of EFFORT on D from Rose and Melo is even worse. There is no question that the problem is really Rose and Melo.
So you're showing us what we're all already saying is going on??
This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.
He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
newyorker4ever wrote:So you're showing us what we're all already saying is going on??
YES MF'er, but i'm making it easier for those who have DOUBTED this to see exactly what is going on. WTF man? If this is all you had to contribute you could've just kept that to yourself. This is necessary IMO, because a lot of people are blaming crap on the young guys when it's the top guys like Melo and Rose who are not leading the way.
and BRIGGS WTF are you goin on about?
BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
Part of the big reason KP has looked so out of sorts is EXACTLY what i'm trying to point out to you!!! DO you not see the examples of the lack of proper ball movement and timing? When you don't make the right plays that sets up bad shots and a lack of rhythm. So it's not just KP suddenly not knowing how to play.
Also I didn't show the bad D from Rose and Melo that actually puts the other players in bad spots. You wanna kill the 21 year old kid for not being perfect and OVERCOMING the BS that Rose and Melo create with selfish basketball. GTFOH!!!
I'm just tired of guys looking in the wrong direction and assuming that when a player looks bad that it's always their fault. In KP's case it's not all his fault. Rose and Melo are setting him up to look worse than he is. BAD F'n BASKETBALL by your top players leads to bad decisions from everyone.
MAYBE just MAYBE if Melo and Rose passed KP would get the idea that he should pass more!!! YOU F'n guys are pissing me off. GET WITH THE PROGRAM and pay F'n ATTENTION to what's going on. JESUS!!! I'm DONE with this kind of dumb ass thinking. It's all right there in pictures for you and you think this is about KP???
I think the freezing and bad shots go hand in hand for KP...if KP is the one on the elbow and Rose and Melo are the ones on the perimeter, this would be a much better offense.
But we know that's not happening yet due to lack of strength with KP. KP is at the perimeter waiting for the 4-out pass but is unable to deliver consistently. I'd say this is why Melo has not been consistently passing to him although he is capable.
Rose...now that's the true black hole. He's simply incapable.
BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
totally agree. Thats not the question however. The question is the best way for KP to accomplish that work. With Melo here? Or let KP be the focal point and have to work through this stuff?
Forget blame. Nobody should blame KP's poor play on anyone but KP. But we are in a bad spot. Do we just wait for this group to turn it around or do we start working towards the future now where we expect KP to be a centerpiece?
nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:So you're showing us what we're all already saying is going on??
YES MF'er, but i'm making it easier for those who have DOUBTED this to see exactly what is going on. WTF man? If this is all you had to contribute you could've just kept that to yourself. This is necessary IMO, because a lot of people are blaming crap on the young guys when it's the top guys like Melo and Rose who are not leading the way.
and BRIGGS WTF are you goin on about?
BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
Part of the big reason KP has looked so out of sorts is EXACTLY what i'm trying to point out to you!!! DO you not see the examples of the lack of proper ball movement and timing? When you don't make the right plays that sets up bad shots and a lack of rhythm. So it's not just KP suddenly not knowing how to play. Also I didn't show the bad D from Rose and Melo that actually puts the other players in bad spots. You wanna kill the 21 year old kid for not being perfect and OVERCOMING the BS that Rose and Melo create with selfish basketball. GTFOH!!!
I'm just tired of guys looking in the wrong direction and assuming that when a player looks bad that it's always their fault. In KP's case it's not all his fault. Rose and Melo are setting him up to look worse than he is. BAD F'n BASKETBALL by your top players leads to bad decisions from everyone.
MAYBE just MAYBE if Melo and Rose passed KP would get the idea that he should pass more!!! YOU F'n guys are pissing me off. GET WITH THE PROGRAM and pay F'n ATTENTION to what's going on. JESUS!!! I'm DONE with this kind of dumb ass thinking. It's all right there in pictures for you and you think this is about KP???
nixluva--i believe Im dead on with what I said. No reason to whale away with personal attacks.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
totally agree. Thats not the question however. The question is the best way for KP to accomplish that work. With Melo here? Or let KP be the focal point and have to work through this stuff?Forget blame. Nobody should blame KP's poor play on anyone but KP. But we are in a bad spot. Do we just wait for this group to turn it around or do we start working towards the future now where we expect KP to be a centerpiece?
Because KP doesnt pass--he cant be the "central" part--but he certainly can be an important part of a winning team.
Cartman718 wrote:I think the freezing and bad shots go hand in hand for KP...if KP is the one on the elbow and Rose and Melo are the ones on the perimeter, this would be a much better offense.But we know that's not happening yet due to lack of strength with KP. KP is at the perimeter waiting for the 4-out pass but is unable to deliver consistently. I'd say this is why Melo has not been consistently passing to him although he is capable.
Rose...now that's the true black hole. He's simply incapable.
KP looked much better later in this same game with BJ and the kids moving and more free flowing offense. I think people are not quite grasping that all season Rose and Melo have been negatively impacting KP's game even when KP was playing well early on there was a certain lack of cohesiveness between the 3 of them. These are the kinds of things that they should've been working on in practice. To show KP exactly how and where he should be and WHY. Also Rose and Melo should be passing out of these positions that I showed above.
BRIGGS wrote:nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:So you're showing us what we're all already saying is going on??
YES MF'er, but i'm making it easier for those who have DOUBTED this to see exactly what is going on. WTF man? If this is all you had to contribute you could've just kept that to yourself. This is necessary IMO, because a lot of people are blaming crap on the young guys when it's the top guys like Melo and Rose who are not leading the way.
and BRIGGS WTF are you goin on about?
BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
Part of the big reason KP has looked so out of sorts is EXACTLY what i'm trying to point out to you!!! DO you not see the examples of the lack of proper ball movement and timing? When you don't make the right plays that sets up bad shots and a lack of rhythm. So it's not just KP suddenly not knowing how to play. Also I didn't show the bad D from Rose and Melo that actually puts the other players in bad spots. You wanna kill the 21 year old kid for not being perfect and OVERCOMING the BS that Rose and Melo create with selfish basketball. GTFOH!!!
I'm just tired of guys looking in the wrong direction and assuming that when a player looks bad that it's always their fault. In KP's case it's not all his fault. Rose and Melo are setting him up to look worse than he is. BAD F'n BASKETBALL by your top players leads to bad decisions from everyone.
MAYBE just MAYBE if Melo and Rose passed KP would get the idea that he should pass more!!! YOU F'n guys are pissing me off. GET WITH THE PROGRAM and pay F'n ATTENTION to what's going on. JESUS!!! I'm DONE with this kind of dumb ass thinking. It's all right there in pictures for you and you think this is about KP???
nixluva--i believe Im dead on with what I said. No reason to whale away with personal attacks.
I disagree with your assessment. I don't believe you're dead on. Not with what I believe is the SOURCE of the problems. I'm not saying KP is perfect. I don't even think we should be expecting KP to be perfect. The fact that a 21 yr old 2nd year player still needs to improve is not a shocker here. That's why I don't know why you and some others are harping on this as if that's the main point here. IT'S NOT!!! What about the All Star Forward and MVP PG that are the leaders of the team???
I'm saying that a LARGE part of the problem is not KP but the impact that Rose and Melo have on KP's game. If anything they should be helping KP to become a more well rounded player but they are not doing that. In fact my contention is that the selfish style of play is NEGATIVELY impacting KP and the team as a whole. They're showing him the wrong way to play and bogging down the offense.
Now if you've got some proof that i'm wrong about this then go ahead and point it out. Let's see your evidence to the contrary that what I posted above is not the MAIN source of the problem. I could've posted even more evidence of just how much Rose and Melo negatively impact the flow of the team and the kind of shots that others get. I'll wait for your evidence to the contrary first.
Only in NY would their be some rebellion to choosing a 2nd year 7'3 athletic big with elite rim protection and legit NBA level shooting guard skills over players who have never won anywhere as the top dogs - who have and will command TEN times the salary of the younger 21 year old.
KP has his faults. Dude also makes 5 million. Rose n Melo make a combined 50 million. Maybe that's why there's more expectation out of them? Maybe because KP is basically a kid learning the game and isn't expected to have veteran smarts. Melo andRose are vets who should bring high IQ veteran plays to the team. Huge difference.
In value KP >>> Rose >> Melo. Age, contract, upside all part of that.
nyknickzingis wrote:Only in NY would their be some rebellion to choosing a 2nd year 7'3 athletic big with anchoring and NBA level shooting guard skills over players who have never won anywhere as the top dogs who have and will command TEN times the salary of the younger 21 year old.KP has his faults. Dude also makes 5 million. Rose n Melo make a combined 50 million. Maybe that's why there's more expectation out of them?
EXACTLY!!! How are we switching the responsibility onto KP??? The Vets are supposed to be here to show them the way! I'm sorry but I did this breakdown and watched to see what was actually happening and it's CRYSTAL CLEAR that the flow and rhythm, the trust and confidence of the players gets thrown out of whack with how Rose and Melo play.
I don't believe the offense should flow thru Melo as much as it does. When Rose and Melo get the ball it stops and really messes up the way everyone else plays. We all know KP can play better than he's looked. I'm convinced that if and when KP plays with teammates that play TEAM BALL we will see his game improve dramatically.
CrushAlot wrote:BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
This.
Don't validate this crap! Sure KP has flaws but those flaws are being exaggerated by the lack of Team Ball and leadership by Rose and Melo. Unless you guys are willing to actually dig deeper into what KP does and WHY these kinds of statements are not telling the whole story.
I just demonstrated a few possessions where KP was in the right position to take GOOD shots and the ball never came. That's a HUGE part of the problem. If a player doesn't get the ball when he should that can lead to forced shots he shouldn't take. You guys are acting like KP is a guard and can get any shot whenever he wants. He's 7-3 and his teammates have to make sure to give him the ball in the right spots at the right time. F'n BALL MOVEMENT is the key.
BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
Whoa....The Zingis acolytes are surely mounting up on their Unicorns to come Tar & Feather you BRIGGS. This kind of sacrilege will not be tolerated!!!! At least NOT until they run Melo out of town and then turn on "Porsuckus" The Latvian Black Hole (as they will soon refer to him) and scream about Melo being the key piece on a Cavs or Clippers championship run and all we got in return was 3 2nd round pics and Austin Rivers/Iman Shumpert. Then even when we show them old posts calling for Melo's head and the execution of Lala they will claim they were misquoted and provide Alternative Facts to show how big their positive posts were. This town devours it's stars and spits them out as quick as they can SMDH
nixluva wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Only in NY would their be some rebellion to choosing a 2nd year 7'3 athletic big with anchoring and NBA level shooting guard skills over players who have never won anywhere as the top dogs who have and will command TEN times the salary of the younger 21 year old.KP has his faults. Dude also makes 5 million. Rose n Melo make a combined 50 million. Maybe that's why there's more expectation out of them?
EXACTLY!!! How are we switching the responsibility onto KP??? The Vets are supposed to be here to show them the way! I'm sorry but I did this breakdown and watched to see what was actually happening and it's CRYSTAL CLEAR that the flow and rhythm, the trust and confidence of the players gets thrown out of whack with how Rose and Melo play.
I don't believe the offense should flow thru Melo as much as it does. When Rose and Melo get the ball it stops and really messes up the way everyone else plays. We all know KP can play better than he's looked. I'm convinced that if and when KP plays with teammates that play TEAM BALL we will see his game improve dramatically.
So tell me something, if melo and rose stop the ball so much(which I do agree) why are we still losing when they don't play.
Are rose and melo the reason KP fouls like there's no tomorrow?
Why is KP saying he is better when melo is on the floor, why is everybody else saying he's not?
newyorker4ever wrote:So you're showing us what we're all already saying is going on??
not for nothing but why don't you just pass the post or not respond. There are a TON of people who don't see or what the game that I am sure would appreciate the time and effort it takes to create those images and make them available to us, I know I do.
Thanks
nixluva wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:So you're showing us what we're all already saying is going on??
YES MF'er, but i'm making it easier for those who have DOUBTED this to see exactly what is going on. WTF man? If this is all you had to contribute you could've just kept that to yourself. This is necessary IMO, because a lot of people are blaming crap on the young guys when it's the top guys like Melo and Rose who are not leading the way.
and BRIGGS WTF are you goin on about?
BRIGGS wrote:This is a bunch of BS. KP hasnt played well. Where was this when he was avg over 20 with the same guys. KP has poor shot selection and his IQ isnt as high for the whole game as is his work ethic.He takes a bunch of bad shots--hes a non passer, hes an inconsistent rebounder --he doesnt or cant guard the perimeter well. Hes got his own work to correct.
Part of the big reason KP has looked so out of sorts is EXACTLY what i'm trying to point out to you!!! DO you not see the examples of the lack of proper ball movement and timing? When you don't make the right plays that sets up bad shots and a lack of rhythm. So it's not just KP suddenly not knowing how to play. Also I didn't show the bad D from Rose and Melo that actually puts the other players in bad spots. You wanna kill the 21 year old kid for not being perfect and OVERCOMING the BS that Rose and Melo create with selfish basketball. GTFOH!!!
I'm just tired of guys looking in the wrong direction and assuming that when a player looks bad that it's always their fault. In KP's case it's not all his fault. Rose and Melo are setting him up to look worse than he is. BAD F'n BASKETBALL by your top players leads to bad decisions from everyone.
MAYBE just MAYBE if Melo and Rose passed KP would get the idea that he should pass more!!! YOU F'n guys are pissing me off. GET WITH THE PROGRAM and pay F'n ATTENTION to what's going on. JESUS!!! I'm DONE with this kind of dumb ass thinking. It's all right there in pictures for you and you think this is about KP???
Well if a fan doesn't understand what's going on when it's very clear then they're just morons anyway cause it's not that hard to see MFer.
