My take is the Oak went to the Garden and got seats close to Dolan..Security didn't find out that Oak was so close to Dolan until he was seated and they panicked..They were supposed to keep tabs on Oak when he comes to the Garden..They tried to get him to leave quietly and Oakley freaked..That's why Garden head of security was fired..Oak wasn't supposed to get so close to Dolan unnoticed..
holfresh wrote:My take is the Oak went to the Garden and got seats close to Dolan..Security didn't find out that Oak was so close to Dolan until he was seated and they panicked..They were supposed to keep tabs on Oak when he comes to the Garden..They tried to get him to leave quietly and Oakley freaked..That's why Garden head of security was fired..Oak wasn't supposed to get so close to Dolan unnoticed..
Makes sense. Also, I listened to the sny podcast from yesterday on the way home. They had Chris Childs on. One of the things that he said was everyone knows what is going to happen if you touch Oak. This was handled badly and the response after was even worse.
Dolan has botched this so badly. This is going to be a black eye for the organization for months when it goes to court.
I wonder if the board will determine he's unfit to be Chairman.
Looks like Oak is going to sue Dolan for Slander....... Good
If Oaks story was true, don't you think fans or his buddies would've corroborated his story?
Has even one person come forward to tell a different version of the events, other then Oak himself...
gr33d wrote:If Oaks story was true, don't you think fans or his buddies would've corroborated his story? Has even one person come forward to tell a different version of the events, other then Oak himself...
Did you not read the NY Times article that had about 5 accounts of fans who verified what Oakley said? It's the freaking Times, so I'm sure their vetting in the matter was pretty thorough. Besides, what axe would they have to grind with Dolan?
crzymdups wrote:EnySpree wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:It'll be interesting to see testimony from people who aren't paid by Dolan.
There were plenty of people explaining their interactions were neutral with him. You didn't see all 16 statements exaggerating his actions. Just because they are employees doesn't mean they are wrong. The Knicks don't need to be out there chasing statements from fans who were seated near him after the fact.
No, of course the Knicks don't.
That's for Oakley's lawyer to get.
Dolan is a lying sack of shit. Can't believe y'all buy this with no questioning.
I can't believe you are buying the other side without questioning.
I love Oak like anybody else, but there are two sides to everything. He didn't have to get physical with security. They didn't grab him even when they escorted him out. All he had to do was leave and sort it out later. Makes you wonder what happened before the video.... well only rational minded people.
The New York Times has quotes from fans in attendance that directly contradict the Garden. Why would the Times make it up?
Why would the Garden? We already know. To make Dolan look less like an idiot.
Read the testimony. To believe it you have to believe that 18 msg employees didnt recognize Charles Oakley and let him get to his seat within 20ft of Dolan already acting belligerently. Do you really believe they would let Oakley within a mile of Dolan if he was already acting like that?
There were also people that I.Begley spoke to that didn't work at the garden that were around the incident that said he was acting belligerent and yelling thing before the incident happened so explain that one??
crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
Yeah he should of done that and then he could of just hired a security guard to keep an eye on his food so Oakley doesn't put poison in it which he said he'd love to do many years ago to Dolan.
Howe do you feel about Oakley yelling racial slurs at the white security guards and employees? I guess that was alright to and aggressively putting his hands on people in front of an arena full of children??
This is a joke. Both deserve blame for everything that one has done to the other over the years but that incident at the Garden was on Oakley. He came to the Garden after already having drinks elsewhere looking for a problem and he got himself into a problem.
newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
Yeah he should of done that and then he could of just hired a security guard to keep an eye on his food so Oakley doesn't put poison in it which he said he'd love to do many years ago to Dolan.
Howe do you feel about Oakley yelling racial slurs at the white security guards and employees? I guess that was alright to and aggressively putting his hands on people in front of an arena full of children??
This is a joke. Both deserve blame for everything that one has done to the other over the years but that incident at the Garden was on Oakley. He came to the Garden after already having drinks elsewhere looking for a problem and he got himself into a problem.
Oh, please....stop with the children crap. Nobody seems to care about these poor children when fans are yelling and cursing at the players and the refs and drinking like sailors during the game.
You really think Oakley, who by the way attended a charity event the day before, had a couple of drinks and decided I'm going to go to the garden specifically to cause trouble? I know Oak is no saint but he's also not a fool. I have no doubt Oak can be a prickly personality, overly sensitive, and a grump. I think he sensed a vibe that the staff is monitoring him and got pissed off about why he couldn't be left alone like everyone else.
Funny how in the Garden's own security footage nobody in Dolan's row turned around until Oak's confrontation with the security began. If he were yelling comments at Dolan wouldn't you think at least one person would turn around to see where those comments were coming from?
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:It'll be interesting to see testimony from people who aren't paid by Dolan.
There were plenty of people explaining their interactions were neutral with him. You didn't see all 16 statements exaggerating his actions. Just because they are employees doesn't mean they are wrong. The Knicks don't need to be out there chasing statements from fans who were seated near him after the fact.
But because they're not neutral parties that needs to be taken into consideration.
These statements (as far as I know) weren't made under oath and are totally controlled by MSG, meaning statements that don't help them could've been conveniently omitted, they could've been coerced into those statements or asked leading questions. Given Dolan's history and background is anyone really comfortable giving him the benefit of the doubt? Now, I feel the same way about Oak too. But his version of the events make a lot more sense than what the Garden is putting out.
newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
Yeah he should of done that and then he could of just hired a security guard to keep an eye on his food so Oakley doesn't put poison in it which he said he'd love to do many years ago to Dolan.
Howe do you feel about Oakley yelling racial slurs at the white security guards and employees? I guess that was alright to and aggressively putting his hands on people in front of an arena full of children??
This is a joke. Both deserve blame for everything that one has done to the other over the years but that incident at the Garden was on Oakley. He came to the Garden after already having drinks elsewhere looking for a problem and he got himself into a problem.
You seem to be the only person that knows Oakley's intent and his itinerary for that evening. You should work for media with the scoops you seem to have.
NardDogNation wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
Yeah he should of done that and then he could of just hired a security guard to keep an eye on his food so Oakley doesn't put poison in it which he said he'd love to do many years ago to Dolan.
Howe do you feel about Oakley yelling racial slurs at the white security guards and employees? I guess that was alright to and aggressively putting his hands on people in front of an arena full of children??
This is a joke. Both deserve blame for everything that one has done to the other over the years but that incident at the Garden was on Oakley. He came to the Garden after already having drinks elsewhere looking for a problem and he got himself into a problem.
You seem to be the only person that knows Oakley's intent and his itinerary for that evening. You should work for media with the scoops you seem to have.
No i just live in the real world and am grown enough to see who the problem was. It's really quite simple if you open your eyes.
newyorker4ever wrote:NardDogNation wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
Yeah he should of done that and then he could of just hired a security guard to keep an eye on his food so Oakley doesn't put poison in it which he said he'd love to do many years ago to Dolan.
Howe do you feel about Oakley yelling racial slurs at the white security guards and employees? I guess that was alright to and aggressively putting his hands on people in front of an arena full of children??
This is a joke. Both deserve blame for everything that one has done to the other over the years but that incident at the Garden was on Oakley. He came to the Garden after already having drinks elsewhere looking for a problem and he got himself into a problem.
You seem to be the only person that knows Oakley's intent and his itinerary for that evening. You should work for media with the scoops you seem to have.
No i just live in the real world and am grown enough to see who the problem was. It's really quite simple if you open your eyes.
Actually you sound like you operate in a vacuum and can't relate to any situation outside of the cocoon of YOUR "real world."
newyorker4ever wrote:NardDogNation wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
Yeah he should of done that and then he could of just hired a security guard to keep an eye on his food so Oakley doesn't put poison in it which he said he'd love to do many years ago to Dolan.
Howe do you feel about Oakley yelling racial slurs at the white security guards and employees? I guess that was alright to and aggressively putting his hands on people in front of an arena full of children??
This is a joke. Both deserve blame for everything that one has done to the other over the years but that incident at the Garden was on Oakley. He came to the Garden after already having drinks elsewhere looking for a problem and he got himself into a problem.
You seem to be the only person that knows Oakley's intent and his itinerary for that evening. You should work for media with the scoops you seem to have.
No i just live in the real world and am grown enough to see who the problem was. It's really quite simple if you open your eyes.
I feel bad for you if the 'real world' is believing what James Dolan tells you.
can we blow this up as a community to a point where dolan is forced to sell? (like the clips owner)
crzymdups wrote:This is Dave Checketts' son. Smarter than Dolan will ever be.
That would've been the ideal scenario but Dolan is small minded. Not ignoring Oak for almost 20yrs. Not having security stare him that. I would be pissed too. They are both at fault but Dolan gets the brunt of the blame as he is holding the deck of cards. The ball is in his court to do the right thing. It was a sad sad day but no different then the past 15yrs. Maybe another 15yrs from now Dolan will get it right
crzymdups wrote:Dolan has botched this so badly. This is going to be a black eye for the organization for months when it goes to court. I wonder if the board will determine he's unfit to be Chairman.
We were due for another Anucha/Zeke like Trial to but a stamp on this latest era of ineptitude. Maybe Just maybe Adam Silver like Stern before him will step in even though Dolan's sobriety is no longer one of the major issues. Only Dolan's insecurities & Napoleon complexes
gunsnewing wrote:crzymdups wrote:Dolan has botched this so badly. This is going to be a black eye for the organization for months when it goes to court. I wonder if the board will determine he's unfit to be Chairman.
We were due for another Anucha/Zeke like Trial to but a stamp on this latest era of ineptitude. Maybe Just maybe Adam Silver like Stern before him will step in even though Dolan's sobriety is no longer one of the major issues. Only Dolan's insecurities & Napoleon complexes
you think the owner steps in on this? and do what?
Jalen Rose covered this years ago on a Grantland podcast. Former players with long standing histories with one franchise get a ton of benefits from said franchise. But they have to toe a certain line. Last thing you need is former high profile players being distractions in the press by saying negative things about the team.
No one is above being diplomatic in situations like this. Even in real life, people here, you have to take the situation into context. You just can't say and do whatever you want, when you want, and in public, without some kind of backlash. If the company hires the bosses nephew in your unit, you just can't run roughshod over the kid. You can't speak to them without consider what words they might repeat to your boss, etc,etc. A lot of this is just adult common sense.
Could Dolan be in the total wrong? Sure, maybe. But Oakley has to be smart enough to play the "game" here. He has more to lose and less to gain by going to war with Dolan in public. ( Players are a fraternity sure, but so are the owners, even if the owners hate each other, he's just not killing his chances with the Knicks, he's killing off his opportunities with other teams. Jose Canseco was RIGHT. He was publicly VINDICATED. But it did not stop MLB from basically blackballing him from anything to do with MLB FOREVER. Being RIGHT isn't enough in this case, not in context)
When in Rome, do as the Romans do. That's one saying. The other is "find a Roman peace" Which means kill everyone, and now you have peace. Oakley chose the latter, and now he has to eat the fallout. Being "Right" is critical when someone is gunning for your dignity. In this case, mostly it appears it's about pride.
