I was listening to a podcast featuring David Thorpe and I thought he had a brilliant analogy for Dolan's tenure as team owner. He likened the turmoil to a lumberjack hacking away at a tree. The final blow might be distinct but ultimately it's the cumulative effect of the earlier strikes that brings the tree down. With that being said, could this most recent Oakley incident be the blow that forces the league to intervene and force James Dolan out?
From the Isiah Thomas sexual harrassment scandal, to then re-hiring Isiah Thomas to run a WNBA franchise, to Stephon Marbury allegedly coercing an employee/subordinate into having sex with him, to having a handicapped Nets fan removed that later committed suicide, to defaming/intimidating employees....this stuff has to have a negative impact on the public perception of the NBA product and thus the overall health of the league. At what point does the NBA formally recognize that in some character-clause they must have in their contract, ala Donald Sterling,and submit an ultimatum to save us all from this bungling idiot?
NAH! It's nothing compared to what the Clippers went thru with their owner! I think people tend to blow NY stuff out of proportion.
nixluva wrote:NAH! It's nothing compared to what the Clippers went thru with their owner! I think people tend to blow NY stuff out of proportion.
So having players leverage their influence in the organization to fuck lower-level employees is somehow less worse than a guy voicing opinions in his personal time?
NardDogNation wrote:I was listening to a podcast featuring David Thorpe and I thought he had a brilliant analogy for Dolan's tenure as team owner. He likened the turmoil to a lumberjack hacking away at a tree. The final blow might be distinct but ultimately it's the cumulative effect of the earlier strikes that brings the tree down. With that being said, could this most recent Oakley incident be the blow that forces the league to intervene and force James Dolan out?From the Isiah Thomas sexual harrassment scandal, to then re-hiring Isiah Thomas to run a WNBA franchise, to Stephon Marbury allegedly coercing an employee/subordinate into having sex with him, to having a handicapped Nets fan removed that later committed suicide, to defaming/intimidating employees....this stuff has to have a negative impact on the public perception of the NBA product and thus the overall health of the league. At what point does the NBA formally recognize that in some character-clause they must have in their contract, ala Donald Sterling,and submit an ultimatum to save us all from this bungling idiot?
This is tough...
Racism is a very powerful reason to get read of the guy.
The things you mentioned are as bad in my opinion but not for most of the public.
Racism is a pus wound. The things you mentioned just scratches.
nixluva wrote:NAH! It's nothing compared to what the Clippers went thru with their owner! I think people tend to blow NY stuff out of proportion.
You are tempting me. You don't understand how mad this post makes me. I want to punch puppies reading this post.
Nothing compared to what the Clippers went through?
James Dolan has 15 losing seasons out of 17 years in power.
James Dolan's record as an NBA owner is 567-784.
James Dolan has been through 6 general managers and 11 head coaches in his tenure as an NBA owner.
In his time as owner the Knicks have turned from respected NBA franchise to laughingstock of the league. The Clippers may have been the Clippers with Sterling but they are not the old Clippers any longer. The Knicks are the new Clippers. Failure to acknowledge the consistent losing, petty fights with beloved Knicks faithful, terrible decision-making, continuous drama by employees and/or fighting with the media and complete and utter ignorance and carelessness to the fanbase only shows that you, as I have said before, will support anything and everything about the Knicks, including the worst owner in the NBA and possibly professional sports.
The nba did recognize it and forced Dolan to hire Donnie Walsh. The NBA can't force Dolan to sell the franchise at this point. He hasn't been recorded saying anything like Sterling.
CrushAlot wrote:The nba did recognize it and forced Dolan to hire Donnie Walsh. The NBA can't force Dolan to sell the franchise at this point. He hasn't been recorded saying anything like Sterling.
One and can only hope and pray.
It's the only thread left to hang onto in terms of being a fan.
As the years pass my fandom decreases with the feeling of hopelessness.
I hate what Dolan did, but taking a step back, at the end of the day he got security to toss out a guy and is now claiming he was abusive (which I don't really believe). Whether true or not, and taking emotion and loyalty to Oak out of the question, what Dolan did is not exactly the crime of the century
smackeddog wrote:I hate what Dolan did, but taking a step back, at the end of the day he got security to toss out a guy and is now claiming he was abusive (which I don't really believe). Whether true or not, and taking emotion and loyalty to Oak out of the question, what Dolan did is not exactly the crime of the century
What Dolan has done to the Knicks is a crime.
Charles Oakley is a Knicks institution. James Dolan is equivalent to al Qaeda for the Knicks.
An incompetent owner doesn't mean they should force him to get rid of the team. This is the guy that owns the Knicks. He's not selling. That's about it. It's a waste to keto talking about it. He said he's not going to meddle in basketball decisionshoes and that's about all we can hope from him.
Everyone likes to blow things out of proportion but Phil has done a good job of keeping the Knicks stable. Evens wants the Knicks to be instantly contenders but that's not how it works. The Nets are worse than the Knicks yet we get roasted evey day. I wish fans would open their eyes to that. The media hates us and theirs more self hate than anything.
smackeddog wrote:I hate what Dolan did, but taking a step back, at the end of the day he got security to toss out a guy and is now claiming he was abusive (which I don't really believe). Whether true or not, and taking emotion and loyalty to Oak out of the question, what Dolan did is not exactly the crime of the century
But we're not judging this incident in a vacuum. It's the latest feather-in-the-cap-of-f**kery that has gone on since Dolan has owned the team. And the theme of the incidents seem to suggest that the man is on a power-binge that victimizes employees, patrons and ex-greats alike. That's not run-of-the-mill incompetence; that is major character failings and character failings are what got the NBA to get rid of Donald Sterling.
EnySpree wrote:An incompetent owner doesn't mean they should force him to get rid of the team. This is the guy that owns the Knicks. He's not selling. That's about it. It's a waste to keto talking about it. He said he's not going to meddle in basketball decisionshoes and that's about all we can hope from him. Everyone likes to blow things out of proportion but Phil has done a good job of keeping the Knicks stable. Evens wants the Knicks to be instantly contenders but that's not how it works. The Nets are worse than the Knicks yet we get roasted evey day. I wish fans would open their eyes to that. The media hates us and theirs more self hate than anything.
Presiding over an environment that was conducive to sexual harrassment/assault is not "incompetence". Re-hiring the chief architect for said environment to run an all-female league is also not "incompetence". Throwing patrons because they heckle the hometown team is not "incompetence". The list goes on and on that indicate that Dolan's tenure hear is much more than just poor basketball decisions.
Phil has kept the Knicks stable? So you consider constantly deriding the team's best player's character in newspapers is stability? Hiring 4 different coaches in 3 years is stability? Never being around to do your job and having extended stays in California during the season is considered stability? The man is a joke and has done serious damage to his legacy. I'd much rather be the Nets and have their front office that has done a solid job in maximizing a roster that was one of the worst in the league and had no tools to improve it.
NardDogNation wrote:I was listening to a podcast featuring David Thorpe and I thought he had a brilliant analogy for Dolan's tenure as team owner. He likened the turmoil to a lumberjack hacking away at a tree. The final blow might be distinct but ultimately it's the cumulative effect of the earlier strikes that brings the tree down. With that being said, could this most recent Oakley incident be the blow that forces the league to intervene and force James Dolan out?From the Isiah Thomas sexual harrassment scandal, to then re-hiring Isiah Thomas to run a WNBA franchise, to Stephon Marbury allegedly coercing an employee/subordinate into having sex with him, to having a handicapped Nets fan removed that later committed suicide, to defaming/intimidating employees....this stuff has to have a negative impact on the public perception of the NBA product and thus the overall health of the league. At what point does the NBA formally recognize that in some character-clause they must have in their contract, ala Donald Sterling,and submit an ultimatum to save us all from this bungling idiot?
Stern tried to intervene when he forced Dolan to remove Isiah Thomas and bring in Donnie Walsh to run things. But even then, Dolan undid Walsh's entire rebuilding plan in one fail swoop when he took over the Melo trade negotiations. Walsh quietly "didn't renew his contract" two months later.
I don't know what it will take to get rid of Dolan. We're prob stuck with him.
You can't remove an owner for being terrible, unfortunately.
Dolan has stopped making knick decisions. One might even blame Phil for the Oakly thing. I'd even say this is a matter that Steve Mills might have been responsible for.
I think the tipping point has happened with Dolan stepping away. What is not making us happy is the assumption Phil should be further along than he is.
Thats subjective. There is not sure way to restore a franchise.
Not sure making another change hear changes our trajectory other than feeling good to lay some blame.
If we are changing the thinking process from the one that got us into a very deep hole, the let it play out.
I'' take phil over mills or Isiah. dolan likes to trust those guys. Its his call.
He is letting phil play this out.
Better that than him interfere.
Dolan is being smart and straight. You can hate on him all you like but he hired Phil and is sticking with him and Phil is sticking with us. That's great news. And Dolan gets that there is a pernicious and dedicated group of haters no matter what happens. I like that. That consistency will work in our long-term favor.
fwk00 wrote:Dolan is being smart and straight. You can hate on him all you like but he hired Phil and is sticking with him and Phil is sticking with us. That's great news. And Dolan gets that there is a pernicious and dedicated group of haters no matter what happens. I like that. That consistency will work in our long-term favor.
You would have a 'dedicated group of haters' if you failed for your entire 17 year ownership tenure.
JamesKPolk wrote:fwk00 wrote:Dolan is being smart and straight. You can hate on him all you like but he hired Phil and is sticking with him and Phil is sticking with us. That's great news. And Dolan gets that there is a pernicious and dedicated group of haters no matter what happens. I like that. That consistency will work in our long-term favor.
You would have a 'dedicated group of haters' if you failed for your entire 17 year ownership tenure.
Juvenile logic. Scapegoating never looks good.
fwk00 wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:fwk00 wrote:Dolan is being smart and straight. You can hate on him all you like but he hired Phil and is sticking with him and Phil is sticking with us. That's great news. And Dolan gets that there is a pernicious and dedicated group of haters no matter what happens. I like that. That consistency will work in our long-term favor.
You would have a 'dedicated group of haters' if you failed for your entire 17 year ownership tenure.
Juvenile logic. Scapegoating never looks good.
What are you even talking about? Are you trolling? You're absolving a man who has lost from the minute he took over the franchise for no apparent reason.
James Dolan is a failure. Arguing anything else is a joke.
