Knicks · Draymond Green: Knicks owner James Dolan using 'slave master mentality'... (page 2)

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

SupremeCommander wrote:I think the words that were used were incorrectly chosen, that said, I agree with Dray's overall point.

Oak was an enforcer for the Knicks and was celebrated by everyone within the organization for doing so. He was aggressive then. But now that's not okay.

Similarly, Dolan may or may not be racist - who cares - but clearly everything he did had racial overtones to it. He was scared of the angry, aggressive black man and relied on that stereotype to paint him with the substance abusing black guy stereotype. Dolan used stereotypes in the media. Then he surrounds himself with black former players to show off all his black friends.

Absolutely correct.
Most of the people who are at average society mental development level are perceiving the Dolan actions as having racial overtones.
The reality is not important for most of the people. Only perception is important.

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I don't think Draymond is too far off base. I definitely think that Dolan has a "slave masters mentality" but I don't think it is exclusive to any one race, religion, etc. Most of Dolan's social interactions from birth involve people who work for him, so why would anyone expect anything less?

It's odd how people are so hellbent on taking everything literally. To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

I think this is a product of fatigue from racial issues. There are many that are opting to not even acknowledge instances of racism, which extend to issues that can be percieved to involve race e.g. "slave master". Like I said before, I don't think the context of Draymond's comments necessarily involved race but people will automatically construe it as such and have an unreceptive reaction to them....even though he's spot on.

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I don't think Draymond is too far off base. I definitely think that Dolan has a "slave masters mentality" but I don't think it is exclusive to any one race, religion, etc. Most of Dolan's social interactions from birth involve people who work for him, so why would anyone expect anything less?

It's odd how people are so hellbent on taking everything literally. To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

I think this is a product of fatigue from racial issues. There are many that are opting to not even acknowledge instances of racism, which extend to issues that can be percieved to involve race e.g. "slave master". Like I said before, I don't think the context of Draymond's comments necessarily involved race but people will automatically construe it as such and have an unreceptive reaction to them....even though he's spot on.

You can't use such a high charged phase then introduce context..How do you introduce context around "slave master mentality"..

newyorker4ever wrote:This is all so far out of hand it's ridiculous. The only one that was throwing around racial slurs in that whole incident was C.Oakley so why isn't that talked about??

I'm as far away from being a Dolan fan as any of you and as much of a fan of what Oakley did for us when he was playing as any of you but the way this thing has gone totally against the Knicks and Dolan and Oakley is probably sitting back smiling is just crazy to me. Dolan has NEVER EVER shown anything at all to say he has a lick of racism in him.

You are aware that slavery extended beyond just race, right? Even on this continent, you had "indentured servitude" of whites though they entered into those arrangements voluntarily, enjoyed more rights, and did not necessarily serve the remainder of their life as "servants"....sorta like a NBA player. So again, how did Draymond Green characterize Dolan as being "racist"?

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racial group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I don't think Draymond is too far off base. I definitely think that Dolan has a "slave masters mentality" but I don't think it is exclusive to any one race, religion, etc. Most of Dolan's social interactions from birth involve people who work for him, so why would anyone expect anything less?

It's odd how people are so hellbent on taking everything literally. To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

I think this is a product of fatigue from racial issues. There are many that are opting to not even acknowledge instances of racism, which extend to issues that can be percieved to involve race e.g. "slave master". Like I said before, I don't think the context of Draymond's comments necessarily involved race but people will automatically construe it as such and have an unreceptive reaction to them....even though he's spot on.

You can't use such a high charged phase then introduce context..How do you introduce context around "slave master mentality"..

Green didn't just throw the phrase out there in some one-liner comment. He elaborated on his thoughts enough to build context.

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racist group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racist group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

What avenues do you have to Draymond Green's contextual utterances that others don't have??

An understanding of American history. Don't want to sound rude but not once did Draymond mention anything about race...yet everyone automatically presumes he's referring to some type of racial dynamic. You can reasonably follow his logic and still arrive at a conclusion that doesn't involve race but still be similarly f'd up. After all, this is a man that fired an employee for not immediately knowing he was the owner of the team and granting him access to the MSG facility. This is also a guy who doesn't speak to someone in 15 years, then gives them a call up to sit next to him at a game as some PR stunt. He is clearly a guy that uses people he considers his subordinates and disposes of them when they offend his sensitivities or outlive their usefulness. That alone is enough to earn him the "slave master mentality" title...same as douchebag extraordinaire, Dan Gilbert.

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racist group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

What avenues do you have to Draymond Green's contextual utterances that others don't have??

An understanding of American history. Don't want to sound rude but not once did Draymond mention anything about race...yet everyone automatically presumes he's referring to some type of racial dynamic. You can reasonably follow his logic and still arrive at a conclusion that doesn't involve race but still be similarly f'd up. After all, this is a man that fired an employee for not immediately knowing he was the owner of the team and granting him access to the MSG facility. This is also a guy who doesn't speak to someone in 15 years, then gives them a call up to sit next to him at a game as some PR stunt. He is clearly a guy that uses people he considers his subordinates and disposes of them when they offend his sensitivities or outlive their usefulness. That alone is enough to earn him the "slave master mentality" title...same as douchebag extraordinaire, Dan Gilbert.

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racist group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

What avenues do you have to Draymond Green's contextual utterances that others don't have??

An understanding of American history. Don't want to sound rude but not once did Draymond mention anything about race...yet everyone automatically presumes he's referring to some type of racial dynamic. You can reasonably follow his logic and still arrive at a conclusion that doesn't involve race but still be similarly f'd up. After all, this is a man that fired an employee for not immediately knowing he was the owner of the team and granting him access to the MSG facility. This is also a guy who doesn't speak to someone in 15 years, then gives them a call up to sit next to him at a game as some PR stunt. He is clearly a guy that uses people he considers his subordinates and disposes of them when they offend his sensitivities or outlive their usefulness. That alone is enough to earn him the "slave master mentality" title...same as douchebag extraordinaire, Dan Gilbert.

Are you familiar with the term "putting lipstick on a pig"???..That is exactly what you are doing...

If you say so.

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racist group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

What avenues do you have to Draymond Green's contextual utterances that others don't have??

An understanding of American history. Don't want to sound rude but not once did Draymond mention anything about race...yet everyone automatically presumes he's referring to some type of racial dynamic. You can reasonably follow his logic and still arrive at a conclusion that doesn't involve race but still be similarly f'd up. After all, this is a man that fired an employee for not immediately knowing he was the owner of the team and granting him access to the MSG facility. This is also a guy who doesn't speak to someone in 15 years, then gives them a call up to sit next to him at a game as some PR stunt. He is clearly a guy that uses people he considers his subordinates and disposes of them when they offend his sensitivities or outlive their usefulness. That alone is enough to earn him the "slave master mentality" title...same as douchebag extraordinaire, Dan Gilbert.

Are you familiar with the term "putting lipstick on a pig"???..That is exactly what you are doing...

If you say so.

My only point is that with such a highly charged phase, you lose all context no matter how it could have possibly been intended..And I won't give Draymond Green that much credit...

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racist group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

What avenues do you have to Draymond Green's contextual utterances that others don't have??

An understanding of American history. Don't want to sound rude but not once did Draymond mention anything about race...yet everyone automatically presumes he's referring to some type of racial dynamic. You can reasonably follow his logic and still arrive at a conclusion that doesn't involve race but still be similarly f'd up. After all, this is a man that fired an employee for not immediately knowing he was the owner of the team and granting him access to the MSG facility. This is also a guy who doesn't speak to someone in 15 years, then gives them a call up to sit next to him at a game as some PR stunt. He is clearly a guy that uses people he considers his subordinates and disposes of them when they offend his sensitivities or outlive their usefulness. That alone is enough to earn him the "slave master mentality" title...same as douchebag extraordinaire, Dan Gilbert.

Are you familiar with the term "putting lipstick on a pig"???..That is exactly what you are doing...

If you say so.

My only point is that with such a highly charged phase, you lose all context no matter how it could have possibly been intended..And I won't give Draymond Green that much credit...

I might give Draymond the benefit of the doubt because he has become a favorite of mine. I can do without his antics- both on and off the court- but his grit, versatility and atypical skillset reminds me of myself when I was coming up. I also think he tends to get misunderstood because he can be oblivious at times but is a well intented individual. Either way though, I'm still inclined to believe what he said, is moreso aligned with my thoughts. He's not the kind of guy to minch his words or be afraid of the consequences. If he thought Dolan was racist, he would've said so outright.

Get Isiah Thomas to demand that Green issues a public apology to Dolan. If he refuses suspend him for bring stupid, speaking out of turn and not minding his own damn business. This guy embodies everything that is wrong with humanity.

As for Dolan, I layed most of the blame at his feet but at this point. Falsely accusing Oak of being an alcoholic was way out of line but that's Dolan for you. Small man, small brain. However, if I'm Dolan going forward I say nothing. DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO OAKLEY. I lost all respect for him as a person. Pains me to say it but Dolan was in the right from the get go.

newyorker4ever wrote:This is all so far out of hand it's ridiculous. The only one that was throwing around racial slurs in that whole incident was C.Oakley so why isn't that talked about??

I'm as far away from being a Dolan fan as any of you and as much of a fan of what Oakley did for us when he was playing as any of you but the way this thing has gone totally against the Knicks and Dolan and Oakley is probably sitting back smiling is just crazy to me. Dolan has NEVER EVER shown anything at all to say he has a lick of racism in him.

Exactly! No one in the media made a big deal about Oak's racial slurs. That is why idiots from the other side of the country are empowered to comment on incidents they know nothing about making each and every national incident a social problem. Green should leave social justice to those educated on socialism. Can't make this up. What a tool!

arkrud wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:These type of things I hate. Look I despise Dolan I have made no bones about that. But calling him a "slave master" is just flat out wrong. I hate when people like Draymond or Spike Lee use the "race" card.

If there is a conflict between some white man and black man in America and it resulted in some kind of trouble for black man this is automatically perceived as racism case regardless of who is right or wrong to begin with. The reason for this psychological phenomena is in the history of white man dominating society enslaving and segregating black minority for a long time. The combination of guilt and anger by association with the social group is one of the basic instincts of human spaces inherited from our tribal roots.
As every individual getting more educated and mentally refined this tendency is slowly reduced. But it still has long way to go.

Yes, education and better educators is critical

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racial group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

Yup Lack of proper education is the problem and the media thrives on it.

gunsnewing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

callmened wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:To your point if he had used the word "totalitarian" instead of "slave master mentality" he wouldn't be off base - he would be completely accurate. You use the word slave master and people immediately start thinking racism is being implied. This rigid keyword driven interpretation of the language leaves me annoyed every time. People who use power as the first line of defense are by definition totalitarians - Dolan is a classic example, slave owners weren't that different. But once you use the word "slave" in a sentence it has to be about "racism" - pathetic. People have no appreciation for nuances anymore

i agree with these thoughts 100%. as a black man i was a little offended by green's comments. i GET what he was saying but lets not go THERE

Dude, again. Slavery isn't something unique to African Americans and not unique to only one racial group, even on this continent. The problem isn't Draymond Green, the problem is people not understanding context.

Yup Lack of proper education is the problem and the media thrives on it.

Unfortunately, the rest of America never receive he proper education needed to succeed in life. Draymond and his peers are the few lucky ones who succeeded thanks to their athletic talent. Being gifted in sports, music and film doesn't make you a social justice warrior. Stop speaking out of turn with dangerous accusations, generalizations and false narratives. Think before speaking because your words as a public figure can do more damage than good. Draymond's words are irresponsible and dangerous to the uneducated especially in this current climate. Think
Of more positive ways to express yourself as a public figure.

gunsnewing wrote:Meant to add that I am impressed with your educated take on this Hol and really everyone's take on this.

Unfortunately, the rest of America never receive he proper education needed to succeed in life. Draymond and his peers are the few lucky ones who succeeded thanks to their athletic talent. Being gifted in sports, music and film doesn't make you a social justice warrior. Stop speaking out of turn with dangerous accusations, generalizations and false narratives. Think before speaking because your words as a public figure can do more damage than good. Draymond's words are irresponsible and dangerous to the uneducated especially in this current climate. Think
Of more positive ways to express yourself as a public figure.

Do you hold Trump to the same standard?

gunsnewing wrote:Meant to add that I am impressed with your educated take on this Hol and really everyone's take on this.

Unfortunately, the rest of America never receive he proper education needed to succeed in life. Draymond and his peers are the few lucky ones who succeeded thanks to their athletic talent. Being gifted in sports, music and film doesn't make you a social justice warrior. Stop speaking out of turn with dangerous accusations, generalizations and false narratives. Think before speaking because your words as a public figure can do more damage than good. Draymond's words are irresponsible and dangerous to the uneducated especially in this current climate. Think
Of more positive ways to express yourself as a public figure.

Music has been used to express anger, rebellion, and social change. An actor or athlete can use their influence and public recognition to express themselves. As a Trump fan , you prefer to support an president who is very insecure with his stature, and whose arrogance exceeds his intellect.

But if Musicians can put into music the emotion of protest directed at trump, thats art. That moves people. Rock n' roll was about being rebellious, anger, love, social change an protest. Punk had a message. The blues is an expression. Jazz can be many things. NWA was effective not because of the shock value, but the music was good. It moved people.

Music has soundtracks for each generations and it gets personal. I hope many use their voice in their art for protest.