He's younger, and while a bad fit in the triangle with Melo, he might be great without Melo as the attacking focus similar to Harden in Houston. Maybe we need to tweak the system, but I do like his abilities to attack the basket and his mid range pull up.
Yes defense is a challenge, but without our other red cape on defense, we might be able to make it work.
I certainly don't max him out in money or years- 3 years to line up with Lee & Noah, maybe $20m per.
Maybe this is Phil's direction?
Fuck no. I am ready to move on from Rose.
hell no... as the pre-season, his unapproved vacation day, and his comments yesterday prove--HE'S ONLY OUT FOR #1
he's a ball-dependent player who is a penetrator and clearly isn't the same guy who is getting paid what he's getting paid. He's not coming back for $12 million a year.
Hopefully the Knicks get a top pick and draft their PG of the future. There are five guys in college who are PGs that are real good. There's an international guy that I don't know much about but people love him and our team is trending towards being international anyways
I don't think it's a good idea.
If I was simply able to pick one I would pick Rose. Both are ball stoppers, but Rose doesnt hold it, he dribbles with it, so while he's doing his thing at least there is some movement on the floor. When Melo holds it everyone stops, watches and we usually see a contested mid range jumper with varying results. Also Melo's only real impact is at the 4, where we have other young players who should be playing there over him.
So from a pure BB standpoint I would take Rose. Now that doesnt mean I want to give him $30mm a year for the next 4 years.
This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
newyorker4ever wrote:Absolutely not
Care to add a thought??
holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Its a players league. If you want to establish that culture you need to remove the players that need to be catered to. That means Melo and Rose.
Rose need to be out.. He's not wht you want to be a well balanced good team.. We need a true pure pg to run this team.. Rose very selfish with scoring mentality and needs the ball. He is probably the worse defender I've seen in decades.
Melo needs to be traded this summer.. You do need to start over with the youth movement and hopefully in a couple of years, players around the league would show interest in playing for the Knicks.. That's not happening now so start over and change the culture around the organization..
No way. A horrible fit with our young core. Not a winning player.
HELL NO...can u hear me now
Is this a joke? Rose is a goner thank god. He isnt a point guard. Even the wolves didnt trade for him and they were desperately wanted to dump rubio. At least melo has value as a scorer,rebounder, and occasional good passer. I do want to trade him BUR only for a good deal
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Melo and Rose has to go...But you are deluding yourself if you think that changes anything...The vibe from above(management) is continued disfunction...We have to change the way the organization is perceived because we wont get anyone to come here...Hornacek is not a good coach or a motivator..Every team that wins in the NBA that wins in the playoffs, wins on defense and he doesn't coach that either...We need those pieces, players and coaches...Phil doesn't talk to anyone...We are New York with team that is covered by the most press outlets...We more more people to talk to them other than Melo and Hornacek..Phil is dropping the ball big time and he has no plan..The rumored trades from yesterday would change nothing..There is no plan..We need guys up to the full task of the job..It's a big role...This isn't the way you change the culture by being a recluse as well...Dolan already tried that..Old people does stuff like that..Isn't acceptable..Dolan isn't going anywhere but full organizational changes are needed...It's toxic with no direction...
Then we sort out the players...Think defense please...
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Melo and Rose has to go...But you are deluding yourself if you think that changes anything...The vibe from above(management) is continued disfunction...We have to change the way the organization is perceived because we wont get anyone to come here...Hornacek is not a good coach or a motivator..Every team that wins in the NBA that wins in the playoffs, wins on defense and he doesn't coach that either...We need those pieces, players and coaches...Phil doesn't talk to anyone...We are New York with team that is covered by the most press outlets...We more more people to talk to them other than Melo and Hornacek..Phil is dropping the ball big time..We need guys up to the full task of the job..It's a big role...This isn't the way you change the culture by being a recluse...Dolan already tried that..Isn't acceptable..Dolan isn't going anywhere but full organizational changes are needed...It's toxic with no direction...
Then we sort out the players...Think defense please...
i agree with you about dolan. As long as he has been here it has been a mess. It doesnt matter who the GM/president is. However now that we finally own all our picks for the forseeable future hopefully we continue to draft well like we did with KP and Willy
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Melo and Rose has to go...But you are deluding yourself if you think that changes anything...The vibe from above(management) is continued disfunction...We have to change the way the organization is perceived because we wont get anyone to come here...Hornacek is not a good coach or a motivator..Every team that wins in the NBA that wins in the playoffs, wins on defense and he doesn't coach that either...We need those pieces, players and coaches...Phil doesn't talk to anyone...We are New York with team that is covered by the most press outlets...We more more people to talk to them other than Melo and Hornacek..Phil is dropping the ball big time..We need guys up to the full task of the job..It's a big role...This isn't the way you change the culture by being a recluse...Dolan already tried that..Isn't acceptable..Dolan isn't going anywhere but full organizational changes are needed...It's toxic with no direction...
Then we sort out the players...Think defense please...
i agree with you about dolan. As long as he has been here it has been a mess. It doesnt matter who the GM/president is. However now that we finally own all our picks for the forseeable future hopefully we continue to draft well like we did with KP and Willy
If there is no plan, it means nothing...But what should alarm you about KP and Willy is that they are easily pushed around by other bigs...Strength doesn't grow on people like that..That doesn't happen in an off season of lifting weights...But everyone is saying that is our future...But I'm not even there yet...I really can't see beyond the dysfunction...We need people in the organization who can relate to people and run the organization in a sensible way.....
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Melo and Rose has to go...But you are deluding yourself if you think that changes anything...The vibe from above(management) is continued disfunction...We have to change the way the organization is perceived because we wont get anyone to come here...Hornacek is not a good coach or a motivator..Every team that wins in the NBA wins in the playoffs wins on defense and he doesn't coach that either...We need those pieces, players and coaches...Phil doesn't talk to anyone...We are New York with team that is covered by the most press outlets...We more more people to talk to them other than Melo and Hornacek..Phil is dropping the ball big time..We need guys up to the full task of the job..It's a big role...This isn't the way you change the culture by being a recluse...Dolan already tried that..Isn't acceptable..Dolan isn't going anywhere but full organizational changes are needed...It's toxic with no direction...
Then we sort out the players...Think defense please...
Right now I don't care about PERCEPTIONS! We aren't going to be a Free Agent destination for the Top Tier at this stage.
I actually think Hornacek will be fine with the right talent. The younger players actually listen to him and as we replace POOR defenders like Rose n Melo and add more athletic ability I expect a much better result.
IMO you START with the PLAYERS! We will be depending on the Draft and lower tier Free Agency to rebuild. People are reading too much into the reports that Phil isn't working hard enough. That's one GM's opinion made out to be worse than it actually is.
holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Melo and Rose has to go...But you are deluding yourself if you think that changes anything...The vibe from above(management) is continued disfunction...We have to change the way the organization is perceived because we wont get anyone to come here...Hornacek is not a good coach or a motivator..Every team that wins in the NBA that wins in the playoffs, wins on defense and he doesn't coach that either...We need those pieces, players and coaches...Phil doesn't talk to anyone...We are New York with team that is covered by the most press outlets...We more more people to talk to them other than Melo and Hornacek..Phil is dropping the ball big time..We need guys up to the full task of the job..It's a big role...This isn't the way you change the culture by being a recluse...Dolan already tried that..Isn't acceptable..Dolan isn't going anywhere but full organizational changes are needed...It's toxic with no direction...
Then we sort out the players...Think defense please...
i agree with you about dolan. As long as he has been here it has been a mess. It doesnt matter who the GM/president is. However now that we finally own all our picks for the forseeable future hopefully we continue to draft well like we did with KP and Willy
If there is no plan, it means nothing...But what should alarm you about KP and Willy is that they are easily pushed around by other bigs...Strength doesn't grow on people like that..That doesn't happen in an off season of lifting weights...But everyone is saying that is our future...But I'm not even there yet...I really can't see beyond the dysfunction...We need people in the organization who can relate to people...
not worried about KP or Willy they will be a part of the core going forward. However you are right we need management and ownership to somehow get it together
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:This organization needs a full tear down and start again..There is no other way...
We need to at least start to rebuild a team full of Team Oriented players. Rose is not that type of player and he doesn't want to be that type of player.
This team has to look to the Draft and make better Free Agency decisions from this point. We need more athletic ability as well. Most important is to try to find players with LEADERSHIP qualities that actually give a damn and play with Pride!!!
There is no quick fix!
Melo and Rose has to go...But you are deluding yourself if you think that changes anything...The vibe from above(management) is continued disfunction...We have to change the way the organization is perceived because we wont get anyone to come here...Hornacek is not a good coach or a motivator..Every team that wins in the NBA wins in the playoffs wins on defense and he doesn't coach that either...We need those pieces, players and coaches...Phil doesn't talk to anyone...We are New York with team that is covered by the most press outlets...We more more people to talk to them other than Melo and Hornacek..Phil is dropping the ball big time..We need guys up to the full task of the job..It's a big role...This isn't the way you change the culture by being a recluse...Dolan already tried that..Isn't acceptable..Dolan isn't going anywhere but full organizational changes are needed...It's toxic with no direction...
Then we sort out the players...Think defense please...
Right now I don't care about PERCEPTIONS! We aren't going to be a Free Agent destination for the Top Tier at this stage.
I actually think Hornacek will be fine with the right talent. The younger players actually listen to him and as we replace POOR defenders like Rose n Melo and add more athletic ability I expect a much better result.
IMO you START with the PLAYERS! We will be depending on the Draft and lower tier Free Agency to rebuild. People are reading too much into the reports that Phil isn't working hard enough. That's one GM's opinion made out to be worse than it actually is.
Be honest with yourself is all I can say to you...
Dolan needs to continue to stay out of it!!! Phil and his team should be given the full time to rebuild this roster.
The entire roster isn't bad as some seem to be assuming. The team lacks LEADERSHIP!!! It's not easy to find real leaders but that is a top of the list requirement for the players we draft from here on. Not just talent but being a leader and about team and winning.
Phil and his team need to be allowed to find the guards and wings of the future for this team.
