He messed up the PGs he signed
Noah was a good player on paper money was bad and he came out of shape all season.
So yeah horrible offseason for himX
Let's see what he can do this summer it's a make or break season for him.
fishmike wrote:Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
Agree 100%. Also, Lee and KOQ are ASSETS that we can move, if needed, next year for other pieces or picks. Patience is now the key, something Phil understands. These are good times to be a Knicks fan - the future just gets brighter from here on out.
stanleybostitch wrote:fishmike wrote:Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
Agree 100%. Also, Lee and KOQ are ASSETS that we can move, if needed, next year for other pieces or picks. Patience is now the key, something Phil understands. These are good times to be a Knicks fan - the future just gets brighter from here on out.
I wish other knick fans could take a step back and accept this already. This can be alot of fun if you really just sit back and enjoy this.
fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
You use to be a credible poster. Your love for Phil and Noah has made you so ignorant.
nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:He messed up trying to satisfy Melo with a win now approach....... but he didn't mortgage the future by doing so. Noah is the only bad contact, but to his defense he wanted him regardless for his leadership. Rose and Jennings are of the books after this year. Lee and Lance are on cap friendly deals. We have plenty of promising young players. We have all our future picks. We have cap space....Man up and see what's really going on
THIS!!!
Thread asks to man up. And you pull the its Melo's fault. Awesome.
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
You use to be a credible poster. Your love for Phil and Noah has made you so ignorant.
i think he is a credible poster. Have had disagreement with him in the past but he is pretty fair in regards to the knicks
phil really screwed up signing courtney lee
nyknickzingis wrote:He messed up the PGs he signed
Noah was a good player on paper money was bad and he came out of shape all season.So yeah horrible offseason for himX
Let's see what he can do this summer it's a make or break season for him.
Really? You mean his medical papers?
Dude is wrong side of 30, and is starting to break down. Played no games last year, certainly appeared to be breaking down. Don't see in what world you could say Noah looked good on paper.
HofstraBBall wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
You use to be a credible poster. Your love for Phil and Noah has made you so ignorant.
and you used to have reading comprehension. However the piss in your morning Cheerios has you around a 3rd grade level these days. I don't love Phil, except his name, which isn't Isiah. Carry on with your agenda. Life is short. You have important work here to accomplish
crzymdups wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:He messed up trying to satisfy Melo with a win now approach....... but he didn't mortgage the future by doing so. Noah is the only bad contact, but to his defense he wanted him regardless for his leadership. Rose and Jennings are of the books after this year. Lee and Lance are on cap friendly deals. We have plenty of promising young players. We have all our future picks. We have cap space....Man up and see what's really going on
THIS!!!
Thread asks to man up. And you pull the its Melo's fault. Awesome.
Hahahaha. Amen.
WTF are you even laughing at??? You don't even have a point to argue.
Melo is the team's best player currently and so ultimately he's going to get a lot of blame. Still that's not what Enyspree was saying. The point is that Phil made an effort to put some vets around Melo and it should've worked better than it did. In the end Phil didn't do any fatal damage and the future component of the team is still moving forward. The worst you can say is Noah is an expensive backup.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:He messed up trying to satisfy Melo with a win now approach....... but he didn't mortgage the future by doing so. Noah is the only bad contact, but to his defense he wanted him regardless for his leadership. Rose and Jennings are of the books after this year. Lee and Lance are on cap friendly deals. We have plenty of promising young players. We have all our future picks. We have cap space....Man up and see what's really going on
THIS!!!
Thread asks to man up. And you pull the its Melo's fault. Awesome.
Hahahaha. Amen.
WTF are you even laughing at??? You don't even have a point to argue. Melo is the team's best player currently and so ultimately he's going to get a lot of blame. Still that's not what Enyspree was saying. The point is that Phil made an effort to put some vets around Melo and it should've worked better than it did. In the end Phil didn't do any fatal damage and the future component of the team is still moving forward. The worst you can say is Noah is an expensive backup.
What about Galloway and Grant? I thought they were part of the young foundation Phil was building around? You guys just change your argument every season the only constant is its Melo's fault not Phil's.
What do you think of Phil's not telling Hornacek to tank for the rest of the season? Seems like that goes against the rebuild plan. Maybe there is no plan.
Nalod wrote:Jennings and Rose, short term audition. They were asked to run the system and can't.
Noah looked very good and is made for the system. if he has helped Willy, its worth it.
Oh wait, Willy joined in the summer of 2016.
And KOQ got it together in the summer of 2016.
And KP is progressing nicely.
And he got Baker.
Ropez was the price. Holiday for grant was a wash.
Willy will be better then Ropez. What a great pick he was!!!!!!!How do you fire a guy for creating cap space while auditioning two very good talents?
and for the first time since eddie donovan was GM we have all our no. 1 picks going forward!!!
Spot on. Jax took a risk on a set of veterans who had said all the right things about being here. If they worked out fine. If not, no harm done. And the upside could have been significant.
And critics fail to credit Jax with reviving a moribud front office, a D-League that is an incubator for talent, and talent refreshment, great scouting, a European presence where there was NONE, and a rock solid firewall between Dolan and internal Knicks business.
That will not be easily replaced by ten administrators from other teams.
We're on track to be contenders. Its a far more rocky road than we might like but we have significant upside.
ramtour420 wrote:Yeah, I thought Jennings was a good singing, too bad we couldn't keep him, whatever the reason I don't know. Noah and Rose were gambles that did not pan out. Rose will come off the books and free up a lot of cap space and Lopez is not needed with all the big men we have. We could have gotten more for him than cap relief tho. Maybe even a first rounder? The only real mess up is Noah. I like Phil but he really screwed this up badly.
Noah was part of a package deal to manage Rose. And Noah was a legitimate rotation version the kinds of rotation players Phil values. Enthusiasm is contagious especially coming from respected vets. You have to stop counting money. It ain't about that.
fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
My $.02 as well. Well stated and accurate. And your point bears repeating,
"People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly fascinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they don't set us back"
I look forward to a Melo-neutral agenda as well.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:nixluva wrote:EnySpree wrote:He messed up trying to satisfy Melo with a win now approach....... but he didn't mortgage the future by doing so. Noah is the only bad contact, but to his defense he wanted him regardless for his leadership. Rose and Jennings are of the books after this year. Lee and Lance are on cap friendly deals. We have plenty of promising young players. We have all our future picks. We have cap space....Man up and see what's really going on
THIS!!!
Thread asks to man up. And you pull the its Melo's fault. Awesome.
Hahahaha. Amen.
WTF are you even laughing at??? You don't even have a point to argue. Melo is the team's best player currently and so ultimately he's going to get a lot of blame. Still that's not what Enyspree was saying. The point is that Phil made an effort to put some vets around Melo and it should've worked better than it did. In the end Phil didn't do any fatal damage and the future component of the team is still moving forward. The worst you can say is Noah is an expensive backup.
What about Galloway and Grant? I thought they were part of the young foundation Phil was building around? You guys just change your argument every season the only constant is its Melo's fault not Phil's.
What do you think of Phil's not telling Hornacek to tank for the rest of the season? Seems like that goes against the rebuild plan. Maybe there is no plan.
Galloway and Grant is the best you can do??? The whole idea is to keep working until you can get the right talent. Galloway was a nice UDFA find and Grant didn't workout as expected. If you draft there will be some guys that don't pan out. Are you suggesting that a GM/Prez has to have a perfect draft record???
You're pointing to the young guys that we moved on from but forgot the guys we still have that show real promise. The youth movement is inevitable but there will always have to be some vets as well. You guys are clinging to a weak argument.
Nalod wrote:if we studied 29 other teams except say the top 5, we'll find many mistakes each team makes.
Somehow phil and his 11 rings came with huge expectations. I get it.With that, we just assume any alternative decision is "Better than the one he made" and thus we can call him out on each one.
We yelled about Greg Monroe too.
We dodged bullets with Monroe, Reggie Jackson, and a handful of others. Phil done well enough.
fwk00 wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Yeah, I thought Jennings was a good singing, too bad we couldn't keep him, whatever the reason I don't know. Noah and Rose were gambles that did not pan out. Rose will come off the books and free up a lot of cap space and Lopez is not needed with all the big men we have. We could have gotten more for him than cap relief tho. Maybe even a first rounder? The only real mess up is Noah. I like Phil but he really screwed this up badly.
Noah was part of a package deal to manage Rose. And Noah was a legitimate rotation version the kinds of rotation players Phil values. Enthusiasm is contagious especially coming from respected vets. You have to stop counting money. It ain't about that.
Nonsense..You don't give a 32 year old player coming off two years worth of injuries 17 mil per over 4 years to manage a guy on a one year contract..
20-20 hindsight is a charm, isn't it?
At the time people had dreams of this player on a one year contract having another MVP season. Sure, lots of scepticism too, but it WAS a probable outcome.
This is maybe the only forum where Phil is considered a God.
