If you look around the league from the teams that are really good
From our perpective
KP
Melo
Lee
Are capable starters on a 50 win type of team.
Willy may improve to become one as well but he needs way better defensive impact inside.
So easiest solution to me
Get a starting 5 or 3 or 4 that fits with Melo/KP.
Get a PG.
Easier said than done but it is that simple.
We have enough talent to get better really fast.
Just the moves Phil made this past summer with Noah and Rose. They never fit well around Melo/KP/Lee.
Not everything is bad about this team. With KP, Melo and Lee we have 3 players who have enough talent to be starters on good teams. Where I see our issues are at the 1 spot and then who is the best starter next to KP/Melo that helps them defensively.
My point is basically if we make two good moves this summer - we are not that far away.
If Melo is intent on staying till 2018 we could shift from a 30-35 win team to a 45 win team with 2 starters that fit.
We learned some good things this year about what type of PG we need.
We should know by now they issues Melo/KP have for D.
I actually see us having a real shot to improve if we learn from the mistakes of Rose/Noah.
Depends on who else is starting on that 50 win team.
I could easily argue that none of our roster would start on a 50 win team.
And we are so far away from being a 50 win team, it isn't even funny.
No one with the way they're playing now would - at least not unless the other starters were carrying the team. We definitely don't have 3/5ths of a 50 win team's starting lineup IMO. Melo from a few years ago would. KP from early in the season might.
nyknickzingis wrote:If you look around the league from the teams that are really goodFrom our perpective
KP
Melo
Lee
Are capable starters on a 50 win type of team.
Willy may improve to become one as well but he needs way better defensive impact inside.
So easiest solution to me
Get a starting 5 or 3 or 4 that fits with Melo/KP.
Get a PG.
Easier said than done but it is that simple.
We have enough talent to get better really fast.
Just the moves Phil made this past summer with Noah and Rose. They never fit well around Melo/KP/Lee.
Not everything is bad about this team. With KP, Melo and Lee we have 3 players who have enough talent to be starters on good teams. Where I see our issues are at the 1 spot and then who is the best starter next to KP/Melo that helps them defensively.
Offensively, Lee and Melo could start if they are surrounded by 4 defensive talented players. Lee would also need high usage players around him to make up for his low usg.
Re: KP
I saw this posted the other day...
http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning...
You’d expect a player like that to develop in his sophomore season, but Porzingis has not developed much. His rebounding has declined precipitously, and his hot start scoring the ball has dissipated greatly. Porzingis came roaring out of the gate, with a .598 TS% and .564 eFG% in his first 18 games. Since then? He has a .517 TS% and .476 eFG% from game 19 on.
I think a lot of that can be blamed on injuries and other things but right now he has not been playing like a starter on either side of the ball. This does not mean that anyone should give up on KP or anything like that. (Is it sad that I have to write that sentence?)
Bonn1997 wrote:No one with the way they're playing now would - at least not unless the other starters were carrying the team. We definitely don't have 3/5ths of a 50 win team's starting lineup IMO. Melo from a few years ago would. KP from early in the season might.
Correct. Melo would make it if the rest of the team was playing super defense. KP only if he was playing both ends of the ball consistently. The goal is to win championships not 50 games, and neither would start on a championship team.
If the Knicks could replace Noah and Rose with a top 15 player at their position, they could win 50 games. Thing is those two players would be borderline all stars. The Knicks aren't getting 2 borderline all star talent with 25 million in cap space.
It is possible to get lucky... via trade or lucky in the draft.... The Knicks haven't been lucky since 1999
I would say:
KP
Melo
Lee
I don't think Melo has shown anything recently that would demonstrate he'd refrain from shooting 9 of 25 or 26...
I am tempted to cross Lee off the list but if he's the fifth best starter I could see that working.
Melo at the 4 +Rose+Lee+ mobile defensive players as starters..Melo playing 32/34 minutes per..Woodson as the coach..
KP at the 4 +Willy+Lance(healthy) off the bench...
Right now KP, Melo, and Lee. Lee is still a great role player to surround star players. Melo can still take over. KP is one of those rare 3pt shooting, rim protecting big men everyone is searching for. Willy could get to that point. Really, it comes down to the PG position. We saw against Toronto what a difference a star PG makes. Toronto is a very mediocre team without Lowry.
If the other two guys are Lebron and Kyrie than any of em.
This is a trick question. I think Melo would disrupt the 50 win team. If the team is winning based on strong leadership then maybe Melo would be able to conform to the team needs. For instance if he is going to a team with Chris Paul or say a LeBron then I can see Melo being a starter and winning. But if he is going to a team like Houston then I see Houston taking a big step back as he doesn't fit the team needs. Location is very important with a player of Melo's caliber. Porzingis probably gets to start on many 50 win teams as his upside is high.
Lee probably starts on some 50 win teams but mostly bench player or 6th man role. Rose probably starts on some 50 win teams with him also location is vital. The rest are all bench players.
fishmike wrote:If the other two guys are Lebron and Kyrie than any of em.
Yeah we saw that with Chump and JR.
Vmart wrote:This is a trick question. I think Melo would disrupt the 50 win team. If the team is winning based on strong leadership then maybe Melo would be able to conform to the team needs. For instance if he is going to a team with Chris Paul or say a LeBron then I can see Melo being a starter and winning. But if he is going to a team like Houston then I see Houston taking a big step back as he doesn't fit the team needs. Location is very important with a player of Melo's caliber. Porzingis probably gets to start on many 50 win teams as his upside is high.Lee probably starts on some 50 win teams but mostly bench player or 6th man role. Rose probably starts on some 50 win teams with him also location is vital. The rest are all bench players.
Good analysis
So that means there is talent with Rose, Lee, Melo, KP.
It's about finding the pieces that fit and who you want to keep.
KP is a must keep.
Melo has a NTC and is still a top 25 player.
Lee is a great shooter and solid 2-way player on a good contract
I think we should try to get 2 new starters who can work with those players.
A flip scenario I have is keep Rose, trade Melo. Build the team around KP, Rose, Lee along side the 2 new staters.
The chemistry of the Rose, Lee, Melo, KP and Noah team wasn't there but doesn't mean it will never be there with some of those starters and some new starters brought in. Talent is talent and we have some.
nyknickzingis wrote:Vmart wrote:This is a trick question. I think Melo would disrupt the 50 win team. If the team is winning based on strong leadership then maybe Melo would be able to conform to the team needs. For instance if he is going to a team with Chris Paul or say a LeBron then I can see Melo being a starter and winning. But if he is going to a team like Houston then I see Houston taking a big step back as he doesn't fit the team needs. Location is very important with a player of Melo's caliber. Porzingis probably gets to start on many 50 win teams as his upside is high.Lee probably starts on some 50 win teams but mostly bench player or 6th man role. Rose probably starts on some 50 win teams with him also location is vital. The rest are all bench players.
Good analysis
So that means there is talent with Rose, Lee, Melo, KP.
It's about finding the pieces that fit and who you want to keep.
KP is a must keep.
Melo has a NTC and is still a top 25 player.
Lee is a great shooter and solid 2-way player on a good contract
I think we should try to get 2 new starters who can work with those players.
A flip scenario I have is keep Rose, trade Melo. Build the team around KP, Rose, Lee along side the 2 new staters.
The chemistry of the Rose, Lee, Melo, KP and Noah team wasn't there but doesn't mean it will never be there with some of those starters and some new starters brought in. Talent is talent and we have some.
OK, but he's saying those pieces are guys like LeBron and Chris Paul! We're not just a couple of small or even medium pieces away from being a 50 win team.
I disagree that it's Lebron n CP3 to make the Knicks a playoff team
A champion? Yes
A good team? No
I think we have talent at the top to be a good team.
What we need is:
1- starting 5 that plays well off each other defensively and on O
2- a bench go to scorer who can carry the load when Melo/KP sit
I don't see a team like Atlanta and think they are more talented at the top (top 3-4 players) than us. To me its the support players, the chemistry and defense that separates us from a 4th/5th seed in the East.
Bonn1997 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Vmart wrote:This is a trick question. I think Melo would disrupt the 50 win team. If the team is winning based on strong leadership then maybe Melo would be able to conform to the team needs. For instance if he is going to a team with Chris Paul or say a LeBron then I can see Melo being a starter and winning. But if he is going to a team like Houston then I see Houston taking a big step back as he doesn't fit the team needs. Location is very important with a player of Melo's caliber. Porzingis probably gets to start on many 50 win teams as his upside is high.Lee probably starts on some 50 win teams but mostly bench player or 6th man role. Rose probably starts on some 50 win teams with him also location is vital. The rest are all bench players.
Good analysis
So that means there is talent with Rose, Lee, Melo, KP.
It's about finding the pieces that fit and who you want to keep.
KP is a must keep.
Melo has a NTC and is still a top 25 player.
Lee is a great shooter and solid 2-way player on a good contract
I think we should try to get 2 new starters who can work with those players.
A flip scenario I have is keep Rose, trade Melo. Build the team around KP, Rose, Lee along side the 2 new staters.
The chemistry of the Rose, Lee, Melo, KP and Noah team wasn't there but doesn't mean it will never be there with some of those starters and some new starters brought in. Talent is talent and we have some.
OK, but he's saying those pieces are guys like LeBron and Chris Paul! We're not just a couple of small or even medium pieces away from being a 50 win team.
Precisely, I keep going back to Jason Kidd and his leadership or for that matter Lin (small sample size). When all the player or most players get on the same page because of one player that is leadership. What the problem here is Melo is the Knicks best player on offense we think it translates to leadership but it doesn't. I feel as long as Melo is on this team the Knicks will be devoid of leadership. Any rookie that comes here won't be taken seriously by him and at the same time I do believe that KP might have a leadership quality but because of Melo's presence it won't shine through.
nyknickzingis wrote:I disagree that it's Lebron n CP3 to make the Knicks a playoff team
A champion? Yes
A good team? NoI think we have talent at the top to be a good team.
What we need is:
1- starting 5 that plays well off each other defensively and on O
2- a bench go to scorer who can carry the load when Melo/KP sit
I don't see a team like Atlanta and think they are more talented at the top (top 3-4 players) than us. To me its the support players, the chemistry and defense that separates us from a 4th/5th seed in the East.
3- please God someone else in the backcourt who can manage to defend the perimeter for at least the last 24 minutes of every game
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:If the other two guys are Lebron and Kyrie than any of em.
Yeah we saw that with Chump and JR.
yea but some think we gave up championship caliber role players. If Melo could just be more like Lebron all would be good!
fishmike wrote:Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:If the other two guys are Lebron and Kyrie than any of em.
Yeah we saw that with Chump and JR.
yea but some think we gave up championship caliber role players. If Melo could just be more like Lebron all would be good!
Melo is who he is. He has made his bed as to the type of player he wants to be.
If your starting top ten, it's rare that a 19-20 kid who weighs 190 or less can make an impact. If we secure a first in 2019 or 2020 for Melo that's fine. This is officially abrebuild and lottery picks are welcome. Free agents who play two way ball and perhaps jrue is a fit.
