Knicks · Knicks have over-complicated their moves.. (page 1)
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.
This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
TLover wrote:If the triangle was going to be the system all along, then why not stick with it in the beginning and acquire players who will fit in it. Keeping Lopez & Grant would have made life easier. We wouldn't have a guy in Rose that doesn't fit in the offense & we're not dealing with Noah's contract.
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
It was a mistake in hindsight... it was a gamble worth taking. Risk reward... also it gave the Knicks an out with Rose being free next this summer.
We still ended up signing Jennings so it does look bad considering what our record is now.
No, Melo, rolo, jennings... but we don't sign Lee without Noah and we wouldn't have Holiday... all things valid.
Another thing, this roster is underachieving. We should be a playoff team. We still actually might squeeze in with these last 21 games.
Most PG's who avg double digit assists, comes from mastering the PnR, and Wall and CP3 are tops in the league at it. Why you think Stockton avg over 15 assist in a season, you know how hard that is. I like rose in this system, I just thinks he needs time, like anyone not name shved
Vmart wrote:I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. This team is not as good as you guys are making them out to be. Phil is making a huge mistake and I question whether he has a plan. I'm starting to feel he came here for the fat pay check, I hope I'm wrong but there is no difference between Phil and Melo at this point just here for the fat check.
Well Phil has also been bringing in guys like KP, Willy, CLee, LT, Holiday, Kuz etc. Phil saved our picks and has 3 this year plus cap flexibility. The team is underachieving but some of that was due to health issues. They could be starting to come together. We'll see how the rest of the season goes.
Vmart wrote:I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. This team is not as good as you guys are making them out to be. Phil is making a huge mistake and I question whether he has a plan. I'm starting to feel he came here for the fat pay check, I hope I'm wrong but there is no difference between Phil and Melo at this point just here for the fat check.
How do you directly go from The basketball court to the gutter? Just here for the fat check? That's just completely bypassing any type of reasoning. That's just not fair. If you have that mentality then just find another team. Maybe a team that's always winning so you don't have to worry about thinking.
knicks1248 wrote:Is so silly to think that any PG in college or the NBA will be a triangle fit, especially over night. Even a PG like CP3 would have a major problem about bringing the ball up and running in the corner to stand there and space the floor.Most PG's who avg double digit assists, comes from mastering the PnR, and Wall and CP3 are tops in the league at it. Why you think Stockton avg over 15 assist in a season, you know how hard that is. I like rose in this system, I just thinks he needs time, like anyone not name shved
Chasson ran Triangle in College and I hope he works out. Baker looks like a good fit as well. The Knicks could be done with the PG position. They need more athletic and well rounded Wings.
nixluva wrote:Vmart wrote:I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. This team is not as good as you guys are making them out to be. Phil is making a huge mistake and I question whether he has a plan. I'm starting to feel he came here for the fat pay check, I hope I'm wrong but there is no difference between Phil and Melo at this point just here for the fat check.Well Phil has also been bringing in guys like KP, Willy, CLee, LT, Holiday, Kuz etc. Phil saved our picks and has 3 this year plus cap flexibility. The team is underachieving but some of that was due to health issues. They could be starting to come together. We'll see how the rest of the season goes.
Its a broken record for us Nixluva. It's completely frustrating to continue to see fans flat out disregarding everything and taking it to the gutter. It's just not fun to see.... We want the team win too but when you disregard all hope or logic.... what do you have? It becomes a witch hunt. I just can't live without reason. With Phil at least we have that. This Scott Layden years we didn't have that. The season after the 54 win Melo squad was brutal as well. The time under Phil isn't the same feel. There is still something to look forward too. There is a path to follow unlike the periods I mentioned
TLover wrote:If the triangle was going to be the system all along, then why not stick with it in the beginning and acquire players who will fit in it. Keeping Lopez & Grant would have made life easier. We wouldn't have a guy in Rose that doesn't fit in the offense & we're not dealing with Noah's contract.
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
I completely agree. But RoLo and Grant aren't that sexy backpage splash this franchise is addicted to. I don't think the tea woudl have been very good if the moves had not have been made. But we certainly would be closer to "playing system basketball."
TLover wrote:If the triangle was going to be the system all along, then why not stick with it in the beginning and acquire players who will fit in it. Keeping Lopez & Grant would have made life easier. We wouldn't have a guy in Rose that doesn't fit in the offense & we're not dealing with Noah's contract.
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
Because they weren't a good fit for the system...Lopez held the ball and wasn't a good passer in the post...What's Lopez assist stat, 1 per year??..Grant can't hit the outside shot consistently..Fisher's comments about Grant's game was that he was a PnR PG..But we won 32 games, I guess we long for those days??...
It ain't all on the players...We are dysfunctional..
EnySpree wrote:Vmart wrote:I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. This team is not as good as you guys are making them out to be. Phil is making a huge mistake and I question whether he has a plan. I'm starting to feel he came here for the fat pay check, I hope I'm wrong but there is no difference between Phil and Melo at this point just here for the fat check.How do you directly go from The basketball court to the gutter? Just here for the fat check? That's just completely bypassing any type of reasoning. That's just not fair. If you have that mentality then just find another team. Maybe a team that's always winning so you don't have to worry about thinking.
Asides from KP and Hernangomez Phil hasn't done anything. He has an opportunity here to tank and work the team into a top pick. He should have cut Rose and Melo should be getting 20-25 minutes a game and KP should be limited also as he is dealing foot injury and other nagging injuries. The object here is to get the highest pick possible. While also working the likes of Kuz, Baker, Randle and Hernangomez into the mix for experience.
Winning now is meaningless and it is going to cost the Knicks like it always does. You know it's a given. This team does everything half assed and they seem to be doing it again. Phil can't stop himself he has fallen into the win now mentality of his predecessor. Game over!!!
SupremeCommander wrote:TLover wrote:If the triangle was going to be the system all along, then why not stick with it in the beginning and acquire players who will fit in it. Keeping Lopez & Grant would have made life easier. We wouldn't have a guy in Rose that doesn't fit in the offense & we're not dealing with Noah's contract.
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
I completely agree. But RoLo and Grant aren't that sexy backpage splash this franchise is addicted to. I don't think the tea woudl have been very good if the moves had not have been made. But we certainly would be closer to "playing system basketball."
yep, that's why im always scratching my head on phils moves, it's like his mistakes get swept under the rug. It's like somebody who keeps crashing up the car, but because it's not total, it's ok.
REALLY
Vmart wrote:EnySpree wrote:Vmart wrote:I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. This team is not as good as you guys are making them out to be. Phil is making a huge mistake and I question whether he has a plan. I'm starting to feel he came here for the fat pay check, I hope I'm wrong but there is no difference between Phil and Melo at this point just here for the fat check.How do you directly go from The basketball court to the gutter? Just here for the fat check? That's just completely bypassing any type of reasoning. That's just not fair. If you have that mentality then just find another team. Maybe a team that's always winning so you don't have to worry about thinking.
Asides from KP and Hernangomez Phil hasn't done anything. He has an opportunity here to tank and work the team into a top pick. He should have cut Rose and Melo should be getting 20-25 minutes a game and KP should be limited also as he is dealing foot injury and other nagging injuries. The object here is to get the highest pick possible. While also working the likes of Kuz, Baker, Randle and Hernangomez into the mix for experience.
Winning now is meaningless and it is going to cost the Knicks like it always does. You know it's a given. This team does everything half assed and they seem to be doing it again. Phil can't stop himself he has fallen into the win now mentality of his predecessor. Game over!!!
You are all over the place. Either he is doing something or doing nothing. Which is it? You want him to do something and nothing at the same time... yet you still want to cruxify him... It's just a miserable way to look at things
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Is so silly to think that any PG in college or the NBA will be a triangle fit, especially over night. Even a PG like CP3 would have a major problem about bringing the ball up and running in the corner to stand there and space the floor.Most PG's who avg double digit assists, comes from mastering the PnR, and Wall and CP3 are tops in the league at it. Why you think Stockton avg over 15 assist in a season, you know how hard that is. I like rose in this system, I just thinks he needs time, like anyone not name shved
Chasson ran Triangle in College and I hope he works out. Baker looks like a good fit as well. The Knicks could be done with the PG position. They need more athletic and well rounded Wings.
so when the rest of the league, and the teams that are pretty much dominating, have outstanding PGs, we'll be starting a pair that wouldn't be 15th men on any other franchise in the NBA?
holfresh wrote:TLover wrote:If the triangle was going to be the system all along, then why not stick with it in the beginning and acquire players who will fit in it. Keeping Lopez & Grant would have made life easier. We wouldn't have a guy in Rose that doesn't fit in the offense & we're not dealing with Noah's contract.
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
Because they weren't a good fit for the system...Lopez held the ball and wasn't a good passer in the post...What's Lopez assist stat, 1 per year??..Grant can't hit the outside shot consistently..Fisher's comments about Grant's game was that he was a PnR PG..But we won 32 games, I guess we long for those days??...
It ain't all on the players...We are dysfunctional..
you keep the players because you are building, and those players take longer than pre season to understand the system that they are trying to build.
Sure, Lopez wasn't perfect, but he was solid and started every game, and filled a role. Why replace him with someone hurt, with a history of breaking down, and a PG that didn't fit the system?
holfresh wrote:TLover wrote:If the triangle was going to be the system all along, then why not stick with it in the beginning and acquire players who will fit in it. Keeping Lopez & Grant would have made life easier. We wouldn't have a guy in Rose that doesn't fit in the offense & we're not dealing with Noah's contract.
Heck we were better offer keeping & developing Hardaway.This team cannot be built based on impatience of fans & owner.
Because they weren't a good fit for the system...Lopez held the ball and wasn't a good passer in the post...What's Lopez assist stat, 1 per year??..Grant can't hit the outside shot consistently..Fisher's comments about Grant's game was that he was a PnR PG..But we won 32 games, I guess we long for those days??...
It ain't all on the players...We are dysfunctional..
This is what makes Phil so frustrating because he uses one excuse for not liking a player then brings in a player with similar or worst flaws.
Grant and Lopez were not triangle fits so let's trade them for a player who doesn't fit the triangle because we are going to go away from the triangle. Well if you are going to go away from the triangle then why in the world are you trading Lopez and Grant?
Philogic is dumb.
They should not have even needed to give up an asset for a crappy player like Rose. It's like playing heads and tails with a coin that's heads on both sides but you can only pick tails. It's really not a good gamble when you are going to lose.
EnySpree wrote:Vmart wrote:EnySpree wrote:Vmart wrote:I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing. This team is not as good as you guys are making them out to be. Phil is making a huge mistake and I question whether he has a plan. I'm starting to feel he came here for the fat pay check, I hope I'm wrong but there is no difference between Phil and Melo at this point just here for the fat check.How do you directly go from The basketball court to the gutter? Just here for the fat check? That's just completely bypassing any type of reasoning. That's just not fair. If you have that mentality then just find another team. Maybe a team that's always winning so you don't have to worry about thinking.
Asides from KP and Hernangomez Phil hasn't done anything. He has an opportunity here to tank and work the team into a top pick. He should have cut Rose and Melo should be getting 20-25 minutes a game and KP should be limited also as he is dealing foot injury and other nagging injuries. The object here is to get the highest pick possible. While also working the likes of Kuz, Baker, Randle and Hernangomez into the mix for experience.
Winning now is meaningless and it is going to cost the Knicks like it always does. You know it's a given. This team does everything half assed and they seem to be doing it again. Phil can't stop himself he has fallen into the win now mentality of his predecessor. Game over!!!
You are all over the place. Either he is doing something or doing nothing. Which is it? You want him to do something and nothing at the same time... yet you still want to cruxify him... It's just a miserable way to look at things
I don't think you are comprehending what is happening. Gravity of the situation being created by winning now. The franchise is being set up for future failure. The Knicks should be thinking about pairing KP up with a running mate. Instead a scenario similar to past failure is being propped up once again that has the Knicks missing out on top tier talent through the draft. I'm a Phil fan I want to believe he has a plan. Does he really have a plan if you look at his moves they have not been pretty now that it obviously a failure why try to win now. It's so illogical to do so. Rose is a malcontent why even keep him around let him go. Melo is trade bait why give him major minutes keep him healthy so he can be moved. KP has been having a tough time with injuries all season why push it.
Phil has been controlling Hornacek all year I'm sure can do it now too. How often do you want to see the franchise type talent being draft in front of the Knicks pick. To me the a top three draft pick would put the Knicks on the right track to getting back to greatness. The path that they always avoid is the right path.
Noah's passing and Roses penitration were ideally supposed to be good fits for the tri and what this team needed based on the year before.
There is very clear logic behind bringing both players in. They just didn't pan out.
newyorknewyork wrote:In terms of the triangle Noah is waàaaaaaaaay more of a triangle big then Lopez is. You guys forget also the all season we were begging & pleading for a guard the could penitrate.Noah's passing and Roses penitration were ideally supposed to be good fits for the tri and what this team needed based on the year before.
There is very clear logic behind bringing both players in. They just didn't pan out.
They didn't pan out because Phil didn't do his homework.
Noah...damaged goods. Have you seen him shoot at least 1 jumper this season.
Rose...no 3pt shooting on passes from bigs. Terrible at penetrate and kick, how could Phil not see this? How is he a triangle PG at all when he doesn't cut to the basket on passes and is always calling his own number? He is not even a PG.
newyorknewyork wrote:In terms of the triangle Noah is waàaaaaaaaay more of a triangle big then Lopez is. You guys forget also the all season we were begging & pleading for a guard the could penitrate.Noah's passing and Roses penitration were ideally supposed to be good fits for the tri and what this team needed based on the year before.
There is very clear logic behind bringing both players in. They just didn't pan out.
He was a better triangle fit... was being the operative word