Which is the worst telling factor and why we ned to tank
When we lose to GS, and then hopefully lose to Orlando on Monday...we BETTER see the yoot movement emerge in full tank mode. Otherwise some of us supporters may turn on Phil and Horny for hurting the franchise long term.
Moonangie wrote:When we lose to GS, and then hopefully lose to Orlando on Monday...we BETTER see the yoot movement emerge in full tank mode. Otherwise some of us supporters may turn on Phil and Horny for hurting the franchise long term.
Willy starts, Baker is PG off bench, KP plays... what else?
martin wrote:Moonangie wrote:When we lose to GS, and then hopefully lose to Orlando on Monday...we BETTER see the yoot movement emerge in full tank mode. Otherwise some of us supporters may turn on Phil and Horny for hurting the franchise long term.
Willy starts, Baker is PG off bench, KP plays... what else?
maybe Rose gets released. Too late for him to make the play offs.
I don't think we can get anything for him in a S&T & I hope we're not bringing him back unless it's one year.
I know this will fall on deaf ears
But we have a young player we want to develop into a winning star
Not the Melo laugh off the losses just put up good stats kind of star. The star who goes all out and plays to win.
A tanking culture takes away the edge of young players. They begin to accept losses as ok, as part of the process.
It is not what I want for KP. I don't think it's good for any young player.
nyknickzingis wrote:I know this will fall on deaf ears
But we have a young player we want to develop into a winning starNot the Melo laugh off the losses just put up good stats kind of star. The star who goes all out and plays to win.
A tanking culture takes away the edge of young players. They begin to accept losses as ok, as part of the process.
It is not what I want for KP. I don't think it's good for any young player.
The damage is minimal. NOTHING would make me change from wanting to be successful and I get that impression from KP. He WANTS to be great. The same with Steph Curry. Early losing didn't mess up his desire to win. It should allow the Knicks a better chance to add Winning talent.
We've been losing WITH Melo and Vets so IMO tanking won't be that much different.
BRIGGS wrote:Which is the worst telling factor and why we ned to tank
Not sure what this means, Briggs.
Actual Knicks players thought they would win...as opposed to actual Knicks players who thought they would lose and were playing to lose?
Athletes don't play to lose...those of you who though Orlando was playing to lose were totally off base. Guys on the floor playing are always going to want to win, and players who don't do this are guys you don't want on your team, anyway.
Only way to tank is to sit certain players out, or tinker with the rotation by limiting the minutes of certain players. Philly shutting down Simmons and Embiid are an example of this...but as we saw, the team still played hard to win.
The guys on the floor are not going to do this, and anyone who believes this is fooling themselves.
WaltLongmire wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Which is the worst telling factor and why we ned to tank
Not sure what this means, Briggs.
Actual Knicks players thought they would win...as opposed to actual Knicks players who thought they would lose and were playing to lose?
Athletes don't play to lose...those of you who though Orlando was playing to lose were totally off base. Guys on the floor playing are always going to want to win, and players who don't do this are guys you don't want on your team, anyway.
Only way to tank is to sit certain players out, or tinker with the rotation by limiting the minutes of certain players. Philly shutting down Simmons and Embiid are an example of this...but as we saw, the team still played hard to win.
The guys on the floor are not going to do this, and anyone who believes this is fooling themselves.
You know what I mean
As in we have this game we WILL easily beat this shitty team as we get back to the 8 position. And the reality is the opposite
BRIGGS wrote:WaltLongmire wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Which is the worst telling factor and why we ned to tank
Not sure what this means, Briggs.
Actual Knicks players thought they would win...as opposed to actual Knicks players who thought they would lose and were playing to lose?
Athletes don't play to lose...those of you who though Orlando was playing to lose were totally off base. Guys on the floor playing are always going to want to win, and players who don't do this are guys you don't want on your team, anyway.
Only way to tank is to sit certain players out, or tinker with the rotation by limiting the minutes of certain players. Philly shutting down Simmons and Embiid are an example of this...but as we saw, the team still played hard to win.
The guys on the floor are not going to do this, and anyone who believes this is fooling themselves.
You know what I mean
As in we have this game we WILL easily beat this shitty team as we get back to the 8 position. And the reality is the opposite
Unless they curtail the minutes of certain players...it looks like the team is going to play hard.
Guys like Rose and Holiday playing for next season...Melo, KP, Lee, and others play for pride.
I'm rooting for us to lose...hate doing it, but I want a high pick...however the players on the court don't give a shyte about what we want.
Presented without comment.
crzymdups wrote:Presented without comment.
maybe you should ask the twolves why the decided to pull out of the deal.
I think what Briggs means is the Knicks don't know how bad they really are. We are so predictable, and our predictable plays aren't that great. ISO Melo, Derrick Rose heads down drives to the basket, both predictable, lame, dumb basketball.
Honestly, the triangle might be good since melo and rose can't really read situations that well, at least the system would enforce some ball movement and they could learn to play with their teammates and find better shots.
Rose's ability to drive to the basket and take shots there is an asset and fits with modern NBA
What doesn't is someone playing ISO basketball from midrange or the post inefffeciently which is Melo's game
I understand Rose has flaws but he has not been as bad as he's been made out to be. Rubio is a heck or a passer but look at Minnesota's record and they have Towns who is better than KP and Wiggins who is better or just as good as Melo.
its 20 games if he cant handle that he is a lost cause anyway. Lets miss out on another great player because we just werent bad enough.
nyknickzingis wrote:I know this will fall on deaf ears
But we have a young player we want to develop into a winning starNot the Melo laugh off the losses just put up good stats kind of star. The star who goes all out and plays to win.
A tanking culture takes away the edge of young players. They begin to accept losses as ok, as part of the process.
It is not what I want for KP. I don't think it's good for any young player.
nyknickzingis wrote:Rose's ability to drive to the basket and take shots there is an asset and fits with modern NBA
What doesn't is someone playing ISO basketball from midrange or the post inefffeciently which is Melo's gameI understand Rose has flaws but he has not been as bad as he's been made out to be. Rubio is a heck or a passer but look at Minnesota's record and they have Towns who is better than KP and Wiggins who is better or just as good as Melo.
It de-emphasizes the point guard—he's buried in the corner after initiating the offense with a quick pass up the floor—in a league dominated by outstanding 1s. It isn't friendly to analytics either. It probes the defense with multiple post-up opportunities, a low efficiency shot-creation area, according to most metrics. It doesn't lead to very many three-point attempts, as the weak-side action generates mid-range jumpers and elbow play. Its tempo, in a league whose pace is on the rise, is slow.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/22951...That is the offense that the Knicks are supposed to be running and evaluating their players by. How does Rose fit? Melo?
nyknickzingis wrote:Rose's ability to drive to the basket and take shots there is an asset and fits with modern NBA
What doesn't is someone playing ISO basketball from midrange or the post inefffeciently which is Melo's gameI understand Rose has flaws but he has not been as bad as he's been made out to be. Rubio is a heck or a passer but look at Minnesota's record and they have Towns who is better than KP and Wiggins who is better or just as good as Melo.
There is nothing about 1 on 5 basketball that makes it an asset. Rose isn't even aware that there are other Knicks on the floor when he had his head down and drives. I would rather have Rubio, but the important thing is weer don't re-sign him
one must tank with purpose. Team is running a strict system and losing is a part of the learning curve.
YOu have to play thru it. Maybe when team was still in contention for playoffs you forgo for the greater good, but historically Phils teams he coach either got it and won big, or fell apart despite obvious talent. Notable the Gary Payton and Karl Malone season.
Knicks are not tanking, but Melos frustration with Coaching not changing is a form of tank. Melo put himself in a bad position friday nite by not seeing the double early enough. ITs obvious what is happening. Blame will get slung around but what is apparent is the players flaws are showing themselves.
Adhere to the team and what it wants to do (we call it "Do your job man!" is not that unreasonable. If melo does not want to do this, he should ask for a trade. Melo is on his fourth knick coach.
crzymdups wrote:Presented without comment.
I wanted us to trade for him, but I'm not sure why him having a triple double one game makes any difference either way.
nyk4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Presented without comment.
maybe you should ask the twolves why the decided to pull out of the deal.
We already know why. Wolves offered Rubio for Rose straight up. Knicks tried to hold out for more in return. At five minutes to the deadline, Phil tried to come back to original deal and Wolves balked at the last minute. A masterful performance.
crzymdups wrote:nyk4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Presented without comment.
maybe you should ask the twolves why the decided to pull out of the deal.
We already know why. Wolves offered Rubio for Rose straight up. Knicks tried to hold out for more in return. At five minutes to the deadline, Phil tried to come back to original deal and Wolves balked at the last minute. A masterful performance.
No, we don't know. One story said Twolves wanted something else from us, one story said we wanted something else from them. One story said we changed our minds but there wasn't enough time, one said we changed our minds but so did they, one said it was only ever 50/50 the whole time. You are choosing which story to believe.
smackeddog wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyk4ever wrote:crzymdups wrote:Presented without comment.
maybe you should ask the twolves why the decided to pull out of the deal.
We already know why. Wolves offered Rubio for Rose straight up. Knicks tried to hold out for more in return. At five minutes to the deadline, Phil tried to come back to original deal and Wolves balked at the last minute. A masterful performance.
No, we don't know. One story said Twolves wanted something else from us, one story said we wanted something else from them. One story said we changed our minds but there wasn't enough time, one said we changed our minds but so did they, one said it was only ever 50/50 the whole time. You are choosing which story to believe.
So are you. Most of the post mortems had the same story. Whatever. What's done is done, but it's pretty clear Phil blew it.
