Knicks · W Knicks traded for Nikola Jovanovic (page 2)
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:EnySpree wrote:holfresh wrote:Only Euors willingly run the triangle??..Oh Phil...Euros are raised playing true organized basketball.... the US players are all in the AAU circuit aka "Just push the ball dribble the ball to death and shoot it"... that's why American players always complain about playing "That way".... it's embarrassing.
So I would totally welcome more european guys. Shved is a great player overseas. I'd welcome him back... bring Milos Teodosic too. Let's just go for it.
I'll respond to the other stuff but I find it funny you gravitate to a guy like Shved, who is Rose like, without the skills...
Yes but Shved was actually able to see the floor and make passes. Shved was a good example of what a player can do in the Triangle even if he wasn't the best player. If we can add TALENTED 2 Way players who understand how to take advantage of the defense using the Triangle this team will improve
Significantly.Bigs that can post, pass and shoot from all spots on the floor are PERFECT for the Triangle. So it makes sense that the Knicks would have interest in Euro bigs that have that kind of game!!!
Not too long ago, you rejoiced at the fact that we are running another offense other than the triangle...Now the triangle lives..I don't get you...
It's simple if you read my posts. If you have Rose and BJ then it only makes sense to run more SPREAD PnR! Now BJ is gone and Rose is the only guy that seems to struggle understanding the Triangle. Baker is more Triangle Saavy and Randle played Triangle in College.
Also I LOVE to study offenses. I actually buy the playbooks like MDA's SSOL and Tex Winters Triple Post Offense Book. Hornacek is NOT running a Traditional version of the Triangle!!! He even stated that they haven't even reached 50% Triangle usage. Horny is still blending concepts and tweaking the way they run the Triangle when they do.
So why don't you question Phil's moves if it seem counter to what he wants to run and the results later prove that the moves were wrong?
Phil TRIED something different and it failed. His underlying plan is still very much intact. Despite this dalliance into a win now attempt Phil didn't sacrifice his plan for the future or completely trash his ability to build with Triangle capable players.
Phil still has his picks! He didn't commit to Rose or BJ. It was a test drive. Remember that Phil could afford to try this because he had already drafted KP, Willy and has 3 picks in the coming draft!!! There's no need for panic or despair.
So you see no flaw in building towards a future with triangle centric players, once again, when we are all assured he won't be here to run it?..Is that a sound plan for the future of this organization?
You seem to have a misconception of what it means to be a Triangle capable player! Literally that just means any player with a high BB IQ, versatile skills and a Team Oriented mentality. The same Knicks kind of players on the Warriors, Spurs and Phil's Title Teams!!!
The key will be hopefully drafting another STUD or 2 and making better use of Free Agency. Phil seems to be getting back to his groove with getting a kid like Jovanovic.
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:EnySpree wrote:holfresh wrote:Only Euors willingly run the triangle??..Oh Phil...Euros are raised playing true organized basketball.... the US players are all in the AAU circuit aka "Just push the ball dribble the ball to death and shoot it"... that's why American players always complain about playing "That way".... it's embarrassing.
So I would totally welcome more european guys. Shved is a great player overseas. I'd welcome him back... bring Milos Teodosic too. Let's just go for it.
I'll respond to the other stuff but I find it funny you gravitate to a guy like Shved, who is Rose like, without the skills...
Yes but Shved was actually able to see the floor and make passes. Shved was a good example of what a player can do in the Triangle even if he wasn't the best player. If we can add TALENTED 2 Way players who understand how to take advantage of the defense using the Triangle this team will improve
Significantly.Bigs that can post, pass and shoot from all spots on the floor are PERFECT for the Triangle. So it makes sense that the Knicks would have interest in Euro bigs that have that kind of game!!!
Not too long ago, you rejoiced at the fact that we are running another offense other than the triangle...Now the triangle lives..I don't get you...
It's simple if you read my posts. If you have Rose and BJ then it only makes sense to run more SPREAD PnR! Now BJ is gone and Rose is the only guy that seems to struggle understanding the Triangle. Baker is more Triangle Saavy and Randle played Triangle in College.
Also I LOVE to study offenses. I actually buy the playbooks like MDA's SSOL and Tex Winters Triple Post Offense Book. Hornacek is NOT running a Traditional version of the Triangle!!! He even stated that they haven't even reached 50% Triangle usage. Horny is still blending concepts and tweaking the way they run the Triangle when they do.
So why don't you question Phil's moves if it seem counter to what he wants to run and the results later prove that the moves were wrong?
Phil TRIED something different and it failed. His underlying plan is still very much intact. Despite this dalliance into a win now attempt Phil didn't sacrifice his plan for the future or completely trash his ability to build with Triangle capable players.
Phil still has his picks! He didn't commit to Rose or BJ. It was a test drive. Remember that Phil could afford to try this because he had already drafted KP, Willy and has 3 picks in the coming draft!!! There's no need for panic or despair.
So you see no flaw in building towards a future with triangle centric players, once again, when we are all assured he won't be here to run it?..Is that a sound plan for the future of this organization?
You seem to have a misconception of what it means to be a Triangle capable player! Literally that just means any player with a high BB IQ, versatile skills and a Team Oriented mentality. The same Knicks kind of players on the Warriors, Spurs and Phil's Title Teams!!!
The key will be hopefully drafting another STUD or 2 and making better use of Free Agency. Phil seems to be getting back to his groove with getting a kid like Jovanovic.
We can address that at another time But the problem have been Phil insisting on dictating the style of play..It has totally undercut the success of th team..You have no problem with 3 years of this failure?
Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?
It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
EnySpree wrote:holfresh wrote:Only Euors willingly run the triangle??..Oh Phil...Euros are raised playing true organized basketball.... the US players are all in the AAU circuit aka "Just push the ball dribble the ball to death and shoot it"... that's why American players always complain about playing "That way".... it's embarrassing.
So I would totally welcome more european guys. Shved is a great player overseas. I'd welcome him back... bring Milos Teodosic too. Let's just go for it.
Euros are soft players...Phil is stacking the team with them because they will be agreeable and will run his system..When does winning matter??
holfresh wrote:EnySpree wrote:holfresh wrote:Only Euors willingly run the triangle??..Oh Phil...Euros are raised playing true organized basketball.... the US players are all in the AAU circuit aka "Just push the ball dribble the ball to death and shoot it"... that's why American players always complain about playing "That way".... it's embarrassing.
So I would totally welcome more european guys. Shved is a great player overseas. I'd welcome him back... bring Milos Teodosic too. Let's just go for it.
Euros are soft players...Phil is stacking the team with them because they will be agreeable and will run his system..When does winning matter??
Isn't that a bit general? Also, the game is changing. The league is getting very international and these kids are more organizational. Lonzo is different.
In the age of a hard cap, its good to have fundamentally strong players willing to move the ball.
Rose and Melo are a bit throw back. They do posses skills to create which works in crunch time, but its not working here.
Its good in half court playoff ball, but if you don't sniff a seed, your not in the dance.
BTW, are the Black Euro's also "Soft"? Seems we going there, might as well go all the way!!
Nalod wrote:holfresh wrote:EnySpree wrote:holfresh wrote:Only Euors willingly run the triangle??..Oh Phil...Euros are raised playing true organized basketball.... the US players are all in the AAU circuit aka "Just push the ball dribble the ball to death and shoot it"... that's why American players always complain about playing "That way".... it's embarrassing.
So I would totally welcome more european guys. Shved is a great player overseas. I'd welcome him back... bring Milos Teodosic too. Let's just go for it.
Euros are soft players...Phil is stacking the team with them because they will be agreeable and will run his system..When does winning matter??
Isn't that a bit general? Also, the game is changing. The league is getting very international and these kids are more organizational. Lonzo is different.
In the age of a hard cap, its good to have fundamentally strong players willing to move the ball.
Rose and Melo are a bit throw back. They do posses skills to create which works in crunch time, but its not working here.
Its good in half court playoff ball, but if you don't sniff a seed, your not in the dance.
BTW, are the Black Euro's also "Soft"? Seems we going there, might as well go all the way!!
Not at all...Looking at our euro players, they are soft defensively..They are easily pushed around..You still can't win in this league without defense...Our problem also is Phil pushing the triangle on the team and having to hire inferior coaches to run it...Phil undercuts his coach in the process...It's failed for three years and a new scapegoat emerges every year....Now Rose and Melo are the problem...I have seen Melo carry 50 win teams and Rose still can produce, so to me, it ain't them...Defense is the issue and we look better with Melo at the 4 and Lance at the 3...That's won't sit well with folks and Hornacek don't have the stones to implement it, so Melo has to go...
By the way, Is the triangle throw back, you know, reliant on interior, midrange, post up offenses??..Is it working here??
holfresh wrote:Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
BS SPIN??? First off the Triangle has been around before most of us were born. It's evolved over the years and most teams actually use some Triangle sets. Phil won how many Championships and Playoff Games running the Triangle??? The Spurs have used some Triangle sets to win Titles as well. So what kind of players do you want in order to win like Phil's teams and Pop's teams??? GOOD PLAYERS. GREAT PLAYERS!!! The role players tend to be guys that are smart and skilled and know how to play within a TEAM CONCEPT.
IMO it's beyond ridiculous to rail against Phil and his belief in the Triangle. What other single system has been more successful???
Phil Jackson
Regular Season Playoffs
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W/L% W > .500 Finish G W L W/L% Notes
1990-91 45 NBA CHI 82 61 21 .744 20.0 1 17 15 2 .882 NBA Champions
1991-92 46 NBA CHI 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 22 15 7 .682 NBA Champions
1992-93 47 NBA CHI 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1993-94 48 NBA CHI 82 55 27 .671 14.0 2 10 6 4 .600
1994-95 49 NBA CHI 82 47 35 .573 6.0 3 10 5 5 .500
1995-96 50 NBA CHI 82 72 10 .878 31.0 1 18 15 3 .833 NBA Champions
1996-97 51 NBA CHI 82 69 13 .841 28.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1997-98 52 NBA CHI 82 62 20 .756 21.0 1 21 15 6 .714 NBA Champions
1999-00 54 NBA LAL 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 23 15 8 .652 NBA Champions
2000-01 55 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 16 15 1 .938 NBA Champions
2001-02 56 NBA LAL 82 58 24 .707 17.0 2 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
2002-03 57 NBA LAL 82 50 32 .610 9.0 2 12 6 6 .500
2003-04 58 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 22 13 9 .591 WC Champions
2005-06 60 NBA LAL 82 45 37 .549 4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2006-07 61 NBA LAL 82 42 40 .512 1.0 2 5 1 4 .200
2007-08 62 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 21 14 7 .667 WC Champions
2008-09 63 NBA LAL 82 65 17 .793 24.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2009-10 64 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2010-11 65 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 10 4 6 .400
Now moving forward Phil has accepted that he needed to update the Triangle again. YES the Triangle has been updated in the past before. This time Phil picked Hornacek not because he was a Lame Triangle coach but because he was a very innovative coach. In fact Kerr admitted that it was watching Hornacek that inspired him before he took the job in GS. MDA and Hornacek have a lot of things they bring that Kerr liked.
Now here in NY Hornacek has brought more PnR, greater Spacing and MORE 3 POINT ATTEMPTS. Last year the Knicks attempted 21.5, 3's and this year it's up to 25.5 3pt attempts. It should go up again if we replace Rose with a PG that actually shoots 3's. Hornacek has changed the way this team plays offensively. It will change even more when we have more Team Oriented players. Guys like Melo and Rose bring down the effect of what Hornacek has tried to do with the offense.
EnySpree wrote:holfresh wrote:Only Euors willingly run the triangle??..Oh Phil...Euros are raised playing true organized basketball.... the US players are all in the AAU circuit aka "Just push the ball dribble the ball to death and shoot it"... that's why American players always complain about playing "That way".... it's embarrassing.
So I would totally welcome more european guys. Shved is a great player overseas. I'd welcome him back... bring Milos Teodosic too. Let's just go for it.
And what about defense??
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
BS SPIN??? First off the Triangle has been around before most of us were born. It's evolved over the years and most teams actually use some Triangle sets. Phil won how many Championships and Playoff Games running the Triangle??? The Spurs have used some Triangle sets to win Titles as well. So what kind of players do you want in order to win like Phil's teams and Pop's teams??? GOOD PLAYERS. GREAT PLAYERS!!! The role players tend to be guys that are smart and skilled and know how to play within a TEAM CONCEPT.
IMO it's beyond ridiculous to rail against Phil and his belief in the Triangle. What other single system has been more successful???
Phil Jackson
Regular Season Playoffs
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W/L% W > .500 Finish G W L W/L% Notes
1990-91 45 NBA CHI 82 61 21 .744 20.0 1 17 15 2 .882 NBA Champions
1991-92 46 NBA CHI 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 22 15 7 .682 NBA Champions
1992-93 47 NBA CHI 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1993-94 48 NBA CHI 82 55 27 .671 14.0 2 10 6 4 .600
1994-95 49 NBA CHI 82 47 35 .573 6.0 3 10 5 5 .500
1995-96 50 NBA CHI 82 72 10 .878 31.0 1 18 15 3 .833 NBA Champions
1996-97 51 NBA CHI 82 69 13 .841 28.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1997-98 52 NBA CHI 82 62 20 .756 21.0 1 21 15 6 .714 NBA Champions
1999-00 54 NBA LAL 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 23 15 8 .652 NBA Champions
2000-01 55 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 16 15 1 .938 NBA Champions
2001-02 56 NBA LAL 82 58 24 .707 17.0 2 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
2002-03 57 NBA LAL 82 50 32 .610 9.0 2 12 6 6 .500
2003-04 58 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 22 13 9 .591 WC Champions
2005-06 60 NBA LAL 82 45 37 .549 4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2006-07 61 NBA LAL 82 42 40 .512 1.0 2 5 1 4 .200
2007-08 62 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 21 14 7 .667 WC Champions
2008-09 63 NBA LAL 82 65 17 .793 24.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2009-10 64 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 23 16 7
.696 NBA Champions
2010-11 65 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 10 4 6 .400Now moving forward Phil has accepted that he needed to update the Triangle again. YES the Triangle has been updated in the past before. This time Phil picked Hornacek not because he was a Lame Triangle coach but because he was a very innovative coach. In fact Kerr admitted that it was watching Hornacek that inspired him before he took the job in GS. MDA and Hornacek have a lot of things they bring that Kerr liked.
Now here in NY Hornacek has brought more PnR, greater Spacing and MORE 3 POINT ATTEMPTS. Last year the Knicks attempted 21.5, 3's and this year it's up to 25.5 3pt attempts. It should go up again if we replace Rose with a PG that actually shoots 3's. Hornacek has changed the way this team plays offensively. It will change even more when we have more Team Oriented players. Guys like Melo and Rose bring down the effect of what Hornacek has tried to do with the offense.
And KP??..He doesn't pass either..But you seem to blame Melo and Rose for everything under the sun..The Knicks problem is defense..But in every gsmethread almost, you can be seen blaming Melo and Rose for everything including KP's play...
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
BS SPIN??? First off the Triangle has been around before most of us were born. It's evolved over the years and most teams actually use some Triangle sets. Phil won how many Championships and Playoff Games running the Triangle??? The Spurs have used some Triangle sets to win Titles as well. So what kind of players do you want in order to win like Phil's teams and Pop's teams??? GOOD PLAYERS. GREAT PLAYERS!!! The role players tend to be guys that are smart and skilled and know how to play within a TEAM CONCEPT.
IMO it's beyond ridiculous to rail against Phil and his belief in the Triangle. What other single system has been more successful???
Phil Jackson
Regular Season Playoffs
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W/L% W > .500 Finish G W L W/L% Notes
1990-91 45 NBA CHI 82 61 21 .744 20.0 1 17 15 2 .882 NBA Champions
1991-92 46 NBA CHI 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 22 15 7 .682 NBA Champions
1992-93 47 NBA CHI 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1993-94 48 NBA CHI 82 55 27 .671 14.0 2 10 6 4 .600
1994-95 49 NBA CHI 82 47 35 .573 6.0 3 10 5 5 .500
1995-96 50 NBA CHI 82 72 10 .878 31.0 1 18 15 3 .833 NBA Champions
1996-97 51 NBA CHI 82 69 13 .841 28.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1997-98 52 NBA CHI 82 62 20 .756 21.0 1 21 15 6 .714 NBA Champions
1999-00 54 NBA LAL 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 23 15 8 .652 NBA Champions
2000-01 55 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 16 15 1 .938 NBA Champions
2001-02 56 NBA LAL 82 58 24 .707 17.0 2 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
2002-03 57 NBA LAL 82 50 32 .610 9.0 2 12 6 6 .500
2003-04 58 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 22 13 9 .591 WC Champions
2005-06 60 NBA LAL 82 45 37 .549 4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2006-07 61 NBA LAL 82 42 40 .512 1.0 2 5 1 4 .200
2007-08 62 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 21 14 7 .667 WC Champions
2008-09 63 NBA LAL 82 65 17 .793 24.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2009-10 64 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 23 16 7
.696 NBA Champions
2010-11 65 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 10 4 6 .400Now moving forward Phil has accepted that he needed to update the Triangle again. YES the Triangle has been updated in the past before. This time Phil picked Hornacek not because he was a Lame Triangle coach but because he was a very innovative coach. In fact Kerr admitted that it was watching Hornacek that inspired him before he took the job in GS. MDA and Hornacek have a lot of things they bring that Kerr liked.
Now here in NY Hornacek has brought more PnR, greater Spacing and MORE 3 POINT ATTEMPTS. Last year the Knicks attempted 21.5, 3's and this year it's up to 25.5 3pt attempts. It should go up again if we replace Rose with a PG that actually shoots 3's. Hornacek has changed the way this team plays offensively. It will change even more when we have more Team Oriented players. Guys like Melo and Rose bring down the effect of what Hornacek has tried to do with the offense.
And KP??..He doesn't pass either..But you seem to blame Melo and Rose for everything under the sun..The Knicks problem is defense..But in every gsmethread almost, you can be seen blaming Melo and Rose for everything including KP's play...
KP is at the very beginning of his career and you continually compare his development with that of Rose and Melo!!! THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!. Maybe KP is learning the wrong things from Melo. In either event I suspect KP's game to continue to improve and widen in scope. I think he will begin to pass more out of his post situations as he gains more legit posting skills and strength. KP is used in a lot of Catch and Shoot situations. Not as many Back to the basket situations. KP does in fact pass the ball but not enough looking for assists directly yet. KP passes more than he actually GETS the ball.
PASSES PASSES FT SECONDARY POTENTIAL AST PTS AST AST TO AST TO
TEAM GP W L MIN MADE RECEIVED AST AST AST AST CREATED ADJ PASS% PASS% ADJ
Kristaps Porzingis NYK 52 22 30 32.7 40.0 38.8 1.3 0.1 0.5 2.7 3.3 2.0 3.3 4.9
Carmelo Anthony NYK 61 25 36 34.4 35.1 44.4 2.9 0.2 0.5 5.6 7.0 3.7 8.3 10.5
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?...
nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
BS SPIN??? First off the Triangle has been around before most of us were born. It's evolved over the years and most teams actually use some Triangle sets. Phil won how many Championships and Playoff Games running the Triangle??? The Spurs have used some Triangle sets to win Titles as well. So what kind of players do you want in order to win like Phil's teams and Pop's teams??? GOOD PLAYERS. GREAT PLAYERS!!! The role players tend to be guys that are smart and skilled and know how to play within a TEAM CONCEPT.
IMO it's beyond ridiculous to rail against Phil and his belief in the Triangle. What other single system has been more successful???
Phil Jackson
Regular Season Playoffs
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W/L% W > .500 Finish G W L W/L% Notes
1990-91 45 NBA CHI 82 61 21 .744 20.0 1 17 15 2 .882 NBA Champions
1991-92 46 NBA CHI 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 22 15 7 .682 NBA Champions
1992-93 47 NBA CHI 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1993-94 48 NBA CHI 82 55 27 .671 14.0 2 10 6 4 .600
1994-95 49 NBA CHI 82 47 35 .573 6.0 3 10 5 5 .500
1995-96 50 NBA CHI 82 72 10 .878 31.0 1 18 15 3 .833 NBA Champions
1996-97 51 NBA CHI 82 69 13 .841 28.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1997-98 52 NBA CHI 82 62 20 .756 21.0 1 21 15 6 .714 NBA Champions
1999-00 54 NBA LAL 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 23 15 8 .652 NBA Champions
2000-01 55 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 16 15 1 .938 NBA Champions
2001-02 56 NBA LAL 82 58 24 .707 17.0 2 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
2002-03 57 NBA LAL 82 50 32 .610 9.0 2 12 6 6 .500
2003-04 58 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 22 13 9 .591 WC Champions
2005-06 60 NBA LAL 82 45 37 .549 4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2006-07 61 NBA LAL 82 42 40 .512 1.0 2 5 1 4 .200
2007-08 62 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 21 14 7 .667 WC Champions
2008-09 63 NBA LAL 82 65 17 .793 24.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2009-10 64 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 23 16 7
.696 NBA Champions
2010-11 65 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 10 4 6 .400Now moving forward Phil has accepted that he needed to update the Triangle again. YES the Triangle has been updated in the past before. This time Phil picked Hornacek not because he was a Lame Triangle coach but because he was a very innovative coach. In fact Kerr admitted that it was watching Hornacek that inspired him before he took the job in GS. MDA and Hornacek have a lot of things they bring that Kerr liked.
Now here in NY Hornacek has brought more PnR, greater Spacing and MORE 3 POINT ATTEMPTS. Last year the Knicks attempted 21.5, 3's and this year it's up to 25.5 3pt attempts. It should go up again if we replace Rose with a PG that actually shoots 3's. Hornacek has changed the way this team plays offensively. It will change even more when we have more Team Oriented players. Guys like Melo and Rose bring down the effect of what Hornacek has tried to do with the offense.
And KP??..He doesn't pass either..But you seem to blame Melo and Rose for everything under the sun..The Knicks problem is defense..But in every gsmethread almost, you can be seen blaming Melo and Rose for everything including KP's play...
KP is at the very beginning of his career and you continually compare his development with that of Rose and Melo!!! THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!. Maybe KP is learning the wrong things from Melo. In either event I suspect KP's game to continue to improve and widen in scope. I think he will begin to pass more out of his post situations as he gains more legit posting skills and strength. KP is used in a lot of Catch and Shoot situations. Not as many Back to the basket situations. KP does in fact pass the ball but not enough looking for assists directly yet. KP passes more than he actually GETS the ball.
PASSES PASSES FT SECONDARY POTENTIAL AST PTS AST AST TO AST TO
TEAM GP W L MIN MADE RECEIVED AST AST AST AST CREATED ADJ PASS% PASS% ADJ
Kristaps Porzingis NYK 52 22 30 32.7 40.0 38.8 1.3 0.1 0.5 2.7 3.3 2.0 3.3 4.9
Carmelo Anthony NYK 61 25 36 34.4 35.1 44.4 2.9 0.2 0.5 5.6 7.0 3.7 8.3 10.5
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?...
I hate getting caught in the weeds where key questions I ask go answered because you deflect...But hey, so 1.3 assist per game from a player logging 33 mins per is acceptable??
And how are these sats tabulated??..Melo brings up the ball after a rebound versus KP passes after a rebound..Lost in th weeds again with nonsense and not addressing how much Phil Jackson sucked the last three years...
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
BS SPIN??? First off the Triangle has been around before most of us were born. It's evolved over the years and most teams actually use some Triangle sets. Phil won how many Championships and Playoff Games running the Triangle??? The Spurs have used some Triangle sets to win Titles as well. So what kind of players do you want in order to win like Phil's teams and Pop's teams??? GOOD PLAYERS. GREAT PLAYERS!!! The role players tend to be guys that are smart and skilled and know how to play within a TEAM CONCEPT.
IMO it's beyond ridiculous to rail against Phil and his belief in the Triangle. What other single system has been more successful???
Phil Jackson
Regular Season Playoffs
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W/L% W > .500 Finish G W L W/L% Notes
1990-91 45 NBA CHI 82 61 21 .744 20.0 1 17 15 2 .882 NBA Champions
1991-92 46 NBA CHI 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 22 15 7 .682 NBA Champions
1992-93 47 NBA CHI 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1993-94 48 NBA CHI 82 55 27 .671 14.0 2 10 6 4 .600
1994-95 49 NBA CHI 82 47 35 .573 6.0 3 10 5 5 .500
1995-96 50 NBA CHI 82 72 10 .878 31.0 1 18 15 3 .833 NBA Champions
1996-97 51 NBA CHI 82 69 13 .841 28.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1997-98 52 NBA CHI 82 62 20 .756 21.0 1 21 15 6 .714 NBA Champions
1999-00 54 NBA LAL 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 23 15 8 .652 NBA Champions
2000-01 55 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 16 15 1 .938 NBA Champions
2001-02 56 NBA LAL 82 58 24 .707 17.0 2 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
2002-03 57 NBA LAL 82 50 32 .610 9.0 2 12 6 6 .500
2003-04 58 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 22 13 9 .591 WC Champions
2005-06 60 NBA LAL 82 45 37 .549 4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2006-07 61 NBA LAL 82 42 40 .512 1.0 2 5 1 4 .200
2007-08 62 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 21 14 7 .667 WC Champions
2008-09 63 NBA LAL 82 65 17 .793 24.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2009-10 64 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 23 16 7
.696 NBA Champions
2010-11 65 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 10 4 6 .400Now moving forward Phil has accepted that he needed to update the Triangle again. YES the Triangle has been updated in the past before. This time Phil picked Hornacek not because he was a Lame Triangle coach but because he was a very innovative coach. In fact Kerr admitted that it was watching Hornacek that inspired him before he took the job in GS. MDA and Hornacek have a lot of things they bring that Kerr liked.
Now here in NY Hornacek has brought more PnR, greater Spacing and MORE 3 POINT ATTEMPTS. Last year the Knicks attempted 21.5, 3's and this year it's up to 25.5 3pt attempts. It should go up again if we replace Rose with a PG that actually shoots 3's. Hornacek has changed the way this team plays offensively. It will change even more when we have more Team Oriented players. Guys like Melo and Rose bring down the effect of what Hornacek has tried to do with the offense.
And KP??..He doesn't pass either..But you seem to blame Melo and Rose for everything under the sun..The Knicks problem is defense..But in every gsmethread almost, you can be seen blaming Melo and Rose for everything including KP's play...
Maybe i am just paying attention to KP a little more than other players, but i have notice a lot of good passing from him. Especially the last couple of games.
And then the aerial tweet attacks out of nowhere...
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:holfresh wrote:Rookie wrote:Why does it take a high IQ to play the triangle? So 90% of nba players are 't qualified?It's their BS spin..I saw an interview with WNBA commentator, who said she played for Stanford and it took her three years to learn the triangle when they ran it...
BS SPIN??? First off the Triangle has been around before most of us were born. It's evolved over the years and most teams actually use some Triangle sets. Phil won how many Championships and Playoff Games running the Triangle??? The Spurs have used some Triangle sets to win Titles as well. So what kind of players do you want in order to win like Phil's teams and Pop's teams??? GOOD PLAYERS. GREAT PLAYERS!!! The role players tend to be guys that are smart and skilled and know how to play within a TEAM CONCEPT.
IMO it's beyond ridiculous to rail against Phil and his belief in the Triangle. What other single system has been more successful???
Phil Jackson
Regular Season Playoffs
Season Age Lg Tm G W L W/L% W > .500 Finish G W L W/L% Notes
1990-91 45 NBA CHI 82 61 21 .744 20.0 1 17 15 2 .882 NBA Champions
1991-92 46 NBA CHI 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 22 15 7 .682 NBA Champions
1992-93 47 NBA CHI 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1993-94 48 NBA CHI 82 55 27 .671 14.0 2 10 6 4 .600
1994-95 49 NBA CHI 82 47 35 .573 6.0 3 10 5 5 .500
1995-96 50 NBA CHI 82 72 10 .878 31.0 1 18 15 3 .833 NBA Champions
1996-97 51 NBA CHI 82 69 13 .841 28.0 1 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
1997-98 52 NBA CHI 82 62 20 .756 21.0 1 21 15 6 .714 NBA Champions
1999-00 54 NBA LAL 82 67 15 .817 26.0 1 23 15 8 .652 NBA Champions
2000-01 55 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 16 15 1 .938 NBA Champions
2001-02 56 NBA LAL 82 58 24 .707 17.0 2 19 15 4 .789 NBA Champions
2002-03 57 NBA LAL 82 50 32 .610 9.0 2 12 6 6 .500
2003-04 58 NBA LAL 82 56 26 .683 15.0 1 22 13 9 .591 WC Champions
2005-06 60 NBA LAL 82 45 37 .549 4.0 3 7 3 4 .429
2006-07 61 NBA LAL 82 42 40 .512 1.0 2 5 1 4 .200
2007-08 62 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 21 14 7 .667 WC Champions
2008-09 63 NBA LAL 82 65 17 .793 24.0 1 23 16 7 .696 NBA Champions
2009-10 64 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 23 16 7
.696 NBA Champions
2010-11 65 NBA LAL 82 57 25 .695 16.0 1 10 4 6 .400Now moving forward Phil has accepted that he needed to update the Triangle again. YES the Triangle has been updated in the past before. This time Phil picked Hornacek not because he was a Lame Triangle coach but because he was a very innovative coach. In fact Kerr admitted that it was watching Hornacek that inspired him before he took the job in GS. MDA and Hornacek have a lot of things they bring that Kerr liked.
Now here in NY Hornacek has brought more PnR, greater Spacing and MORE 3 POINT ATTEMPTS. Last year the Knicks attempted 21.5, 3's and this year it's up to 25.5 3pt attempts. It should go up again if we replace Rose with a PG that actually shoots 3's. Hornacek has changed the way this team plays offensively. It will change even more when we have more Team Oriented players. Guys like Melo and Rose bring down the effect of what Hornacek has tried to do with the offense.
And KP??..He doesn't pass either..But you seem to blame Melo and Rose for everything under the sun..The Knicks problem is defense..But in every gsmethread almost, you can be seen blaming Melo and Rose for everything including KP's play...
KP is at the very beginning of his career and you continually compare his development with that of Rose and Melo!!! THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!. Maybe KP is learning the wrong things from Melo. In either event I suspect KP's game to continue to improve and widen in scope. I think he will begin to pass more out of his post situations as he gains more legit posting skills and strength. KP is used in a lot of Catch and Shoot situations. Not as many Back to the basket situations. KP does in fact pass the ball but not enough looking for assists directly yet. KP passes more than he actually GETS the ball.
PASSES PASSES FT SECONDARY POTENTIAL AST PTS AST AST TO AST TO
TEAM GP W L MIN MADE RECEIVED AST AST AST AST CREATED ADJ PASS% PASS% ADJ
Kristaps Porzingis NYK 52 22 30 32.7 40.0 38.8 1.3 0.1 0.5 2.7 3.3 2.0 3.3 4.9
Carmelo Anthony NYK 61 25 36 34.4 35.1 44.4 2.9 0.2 0.5 5.6 7.0 3.7 8.3 10.5
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?...I hate getting caught in the weeds where key questions I ask go answered because you deflect...But hey, so 1.3 assist per game from a player logging 33 mins per is acceptable??
And how are these sats tabulated??..Melo brings up the ball after a rebound versus KP passes after a rebound..Lost in th weeds again with nonsense and not addressing how much Phil Jackson sucked the last three years...
KP is not the primary focus of the offense as Melo is. He's still progressing and I really am annoyed with your take which seems to be BIASED AS F!!! Melo is the current top player on the team and KP is not. KP is still developing whereas Melo is a finished product. We need to keep working with KP to make him a more complete player and as a KNICKS FAN you should be totally invested in KP becoming a better player and not defending Melo at every chance as if he's the future of the franchise. MELO is not the future.
Also not for nothing but KP does a lot for a skinny 21 yr old kid. He's one of the top under 25 players in the NBA and still growing into his 7-3 frame. Why don't we just back off the idea of comparing Melo and KP in any way at this point. This franchise NEEDS KP to keep developing and hopefully have a great career here. KP is far from perfect but he's really damned good.
As for Phil, he's still got a LOT of work to do and hopefully this summer he can really put his stamp on the future of this franchise. We need another great draft.
But when is Phil going to take responsibility??
holfresh wrote:No..You are completely wrong...Melo and Rose have their issues but you can't blame them for KP which you and others do every game...That is my central argument the entire year...KP shortcomings is on KP..Not Melo and Rose...When I point this out, its labeled KP hate, biased against KP...
But when is Phil going to take responsibility??
Can't blame Rose and Melo for KP, but they certainly aren't helping him either. Traditionally, your PG especially is supposed to make life easier for the big men, and get them involved in the offense. That's just basic basketball.
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:No..You are completely wrong...Melo and Rose have their issues but you can't blame them for KP which you and others do every game...That is my central argument the entire year...KP shortcomings is on KP..Not Melo and Rose...When I point this out, its labeled KP hate, biased against KP...
But when is Phil going to take responsibility??
Can't blame Rose and Melo for KP, but they certainly aren't helping him either. Traditionally, your PG especially is supposed to make life easier for the big men, and get them involved in the offense. That's just basic basketball.
He needs to learn to roll on a pick and roll...He needs to learn to create a passing lane to get the ball..He has to learn to set good picks..Willy does these things with ease and he gets the ball..