Knicks · Twenty years since the Knicks went 3 consecutive years winning less than 33 games (page 1)

CrushAlot @ 3/5/2017 2:44 AM
Ding, Rosen or Shelbourne will certainly have an explanation if this happens this year. Phil's Knicks have won at an almost 33% rate over his three year term. His winning percentage has the Knicks at 32 or 33 wins. That would mean that the knicks were at a historic low winning percantage of 33 or 32 percent for three consecutive years. The last time the Knicks were this bad Hubie was the coach. The winning percentage for the knicks the three years prior to Phil was 55%.
EnySpree @ 3/5/2017 4:18 AM
Guess we better win 34.... forget getting the best lottery pick.
nyknickzingis @ 3/5/2017 7:12 AM
Meaningless stat
Losing is losing
Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs

Knicks had one good season in 13 years prior to Phil Jackson coming to the Knicks.

nyknickzingis @ 3/5/2017 7:43 AM
The first year was legit bad, and Phil definitely messed up with some trades, because that team had no chance and was no good. However it led to KP and it may be remembered for something there.

The second year we began 22-22. I know this board well, because I was on it all the time and the excitement here last year was legit. We all loved how Lance Thomas was playing, how Melo was finally playing like a point forward who would get you 5 assista a geme, and KP was a marvel rookie. Things went south once Lance got hurt and KP hit a wall. Melo has since then also reverted into ISO stall the offense Melo again. The Knicks had a lottery pick, developed KP and had some early success that showed promise. Unfortunately before Phil got here the Knicks had already traded away this pick foolishly. This isn't Phil's fault, he should have a clean slate to work with, and hasn't. Losing a draft pick this like this is a huge blow.

In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard and the team clearly needed an attacking point guard. We got a coach that would modernize the Triangle and install other offense as well. We signed Noah because he was not going to clog up the middle like Rolo (who I loved) and we could run more spread out offense with better ball movement as Noah, Rose, Melo could all move the ball and get 4-5 assists a piece. Two great shooters and play finishers in Lee and KP around them. In theory that team should be able to play well on both ends if they play hard and together. Brandon Jennings was brought in for the bench. Kuz was a nice pick up as a rookie free agent, as was Baker. Holiday was a nice piece in the Rose trade as we lost Jerian Grant who have us athleticism and guard play off the bench. Another great rookie pick up was Hernangomez signing him using free agency money locked him into a nice longterm deal.

I feel the moves Phil made over the past summer were right at the time, outside of the Noah contract. The only move I didn't like was the Noah contract. Too many years, too much money. Should have been a 3 year 50 million deal at most. Phil messeed up with the additional year.

This year we began pretty well, 14-10 but were bad defensively from the start. Rose missing training camp hurt chemistry big time. Noah was out most of camp and has never been healthy. Melo reverted back to iso Melo who jacks up as many shots as possible with a very low assist rate. Melo's usage rate did not change, in fact went up a few decimal points. KP's defense did not improve in year 2 which left us without a quality defender in the starting 5. We are going lottery, but will have our own draft pick this time to add a cheap longterm investment.

The situation is pretty solid for the Knicks longterm. They have $25 million in capspace this summer. Next summer Melo is likely opting out (if he is not traded before). The Knicks will have massive capspace then. They don't have any bad contracts beyond Noah.

Give it some time. I think Phil has made some mistakes, but our situation longterm is not bad at all. We were in a much worse place longterm when our draft picks were traded away and we did not have a young emerging star like Porzingis. Phil needs to stop tweeting crap about players, he needs to stop signing over the hill vets like Noah. He needs to draft extremely well as these picks are key to the team getting better. Some big decisions coming this summer as to what to do with Rose and Melo. For me this is Phil's last year to show if he's really going get the Knicks in the right direction.

franco12 @ 3/5/2017 7:56 AM
If Phil gives up any pretense of us winning next year, and his goal is to build to be competitive in 2-3 years, then I think we have a chance to start.

Pretty shocking how bad we've been. Dolan has never wanted to rebuild, yet his end results have been far worse.

Bonn1997 @ 3/5/2017 8:22 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Meaningless stat
Losing is losing
Missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs

Knicks had one good season in 13 years prior to Phil Jackson coming to the Knicks.


So if the Knicks have a 6 or 7 playoff seed next year, you will count it as a bad season?
yellowboy90 @ 3/5/2017 10:13 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Vmart @ 3/5/2017 10:16 AM
That's crazy. Well let's give a tank a chance. It really is the only way we haven't gone until Phil got here. We have a KP for it. Now let do this and maybe we can get something too.

All we are saying is give tank a chance.

nixluva @ 3/5/2017 10:51 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Melo openly complained about the notion of rebuilding. Phil and Melo met and talked about the pace of improvement and Melo wanted to try and win now, so Phil obliged him. He surely didn't go for Rose and BJ on his own account. This was one last attempt to do something with Melo.

My guess is Phil is thinking about building around a new young core!!!

Vmart @ 3/5/2017 10:59 AM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Melo openly complained about the notion of rebuilding. Phil and Melo met and talked about the pace of improvement and Melo wanted to try and win now, so Phil obliged him. He surely didn't go for Rose and BJ on his own account. This was one last attempt to do something with Melo.

My guess is Phil is thinking about building around a new young core!!!

Phil tried to build around Melo. It doesn't work it's time to go another direction. One that doesn't include Melo. He is the core of the problem.

nixluva @ 3/5/2017 11:22 AM
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Melo openly complained about the notion of rebuilding. Phil and Melo met and talked about the pace of improvement and Melo wanted to try and win now, so Phil obliged him. He surely didn't go for Rose and BJ on his own account. This was one last attempt to do something with Melo.

My guess is Phil is thinking about building around a new young core!!!

Phil tried to build around Melo. It doesn't work it's time to go another direction. One that doesn't include Melo. He is the core of the problem.

YUP! Melo can't say Phil didn't try to give him some help. Now it's time to move on to building around KP. I hope they can get a high pick in this draft and get another STUD and more quality talent.

yellowboy90 @ 3/5/2017 11:38 AM
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Melo openly complained about the notion of rebuilding. Phil and Melo met and talked about the pace of improvement and Melo wanted to try and win now, so Phil obliged him. He surely didn't go for Rose and BJ on his own account. This was one last attempt to do something with Melo.

My guess is Phil is thinking about building around a new young core!!!

Phil tried to build around Melo. It doesn't work it's time to go another direction. One that doesn't include Melo. He is the core of the problem.

YUP! Melo can't say Phil didn't try to give him some help. Now it's time to move on to building around KP. I hope they can get a high pick in this draft and get another STUD and more quality talent.

You can't say you are helping someone cure their cold by giving them the flu. Phil lack of ability to properly assess talent is terrible. He is going to build around KP in a similar fashion because he thinks his triangle will mask players deficiencies.

holfresh @ 3/5/2017 12:02 PM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Melo openly complained about the notion of rebuilding. Phil and Melo met and talked about the pace of improvement and Melo wanted to try and win now, so Phil obliged him. He surely didn't go for Rose and BJ on his own account. This was one last attempt to do something with Melo.

My guess is Phil is thinking about building around a new young core!!!

It's a silly notion to think you can win in this league with the Knicks current bench...If Melo has to play the entire quarter at his age, in which he has to wait for KP to get his rest and back in the game, the coach is telling you he doesn't have confidence in the bench...

holfresh @ 3/5/2017 12:09 PM
3 years of winning less than 33 games which may amount to an average of 27 win per season and you get a chorus of Phil needs time..I remember the days when 1 year of 37 wins not making the playoffs was enough to banish Woodson...
Vmart @ 3/5/2017 12:18 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
In the offseason traded for Rose, because Melo wanted a point guard

So I am suppose to believe that Phil went out and got a PG because Melo wanted in when he hadn't considered Melo's opinion in any other personnel decisions? That seems to go against Phil Jackson's Modus operandi.

Even if I suspend my belief of how Phil operates why go after one of the worst pg's in the league statistically on both sides of the ball? My point being is Rose being here is 100% on Phil and Melo should not be brought up as an excuse for another one of Jackson's Phailures.

Melo openly complained about the notion of rebuilding. Phil and Melo met and talked about the pace of improvement and Melo wanted to try and win now, so Phil obliged him. He surely didn't go for Rose and BJ on his own account. This was one last attempt to do something with Melo.

My guess is Phil is thinking about building around a new young core!!!

Phil tried to build around Melo. It doesn't work it's time to go another direction. One that doesn't include Melo. He is the core of the problem.

YUP! Melo can't say Phil didn't try to give him some help. Now it's time to move on to building around KP. I hope they can get a high pick in this draft and get another STUD and more quality talent.

You can't say you are helping someone cure their cold by giving them the flu. Phil lack of ability to properly assess talent is terrible. He is going to build around KP in a similar fashion because he thinks his triangle will mask players deficiencies.

Melo wanted Chicago he brought it to him. As for the cold to a flu the immune system was already weak.

Nalod @ 3/5/2017 12:20 PM
crush with another dark side post about the obvious.
The previous three years came at a price. While far from perfect, what would phil have done better with hindsight that was a bonafide alternative?
Sure GM's make good and bad decisions.

I don't know why some of you take his bait and try to describe to him that a core of Melo, JR, Tyson and Shump was not that good.
Replace Melo with Lebron, it gets better. Add Kyrie Irving an Love, it really gets good.

I took the bait but im cutting this line.....

knicks1248 @ 3/5/2017 12:21 PM
Vmart wrote:That's crazy. Well let's give a tank a chance. It really is the only way we haven't gone until Phil got here. We have a KP for it. Now let do this and maybe we can get something too.

All we are saying is give tank a chance.

Knicks need to give winning a chance, by playing with some smarts and effort down the stretch.

They need to give Rambis a chance at another job, like triangle seminars in alaska

newyorknewyork @ 3/5/2017 12:33 PM
We use to trade draft future draft picks for past prime veterans in order to win 36-40 games year in and year out. Since we stopped doing that. The trade off is that we will have worse records then those other years presently, but possibly have a better future then any of those years.
StarksEwing1 @ 3/5/2017 1:23 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:We use to trade draft future draft picks for past prime veterans in order to win 36-40 games year in and year out. Since we stopped doing that. The trade off is that we will have worse records then those other years presently, but possibly have a better future then any of those years.
Exactly. Either way we lose BUT at least now we have a future to look forward to. We have willy and kp along with all our future picks. Time to build this franchise the right way
crzymdups @ 3/5/2017 1:30 PM
Knicks just need to tank. Need to move on from Melo and Rose in the summer and do a proper rebuild. Melo is throwing Hornacek under the bus, it's time to blow it up. It's been time for a while.
nixluva @ 3/5/2017 1:45 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:We use to trade draft future draft picks for past prime veterans in order to win 36-40 games year in and year out. Since we stopped doing that. The trade off is that we will have worse records then those other years presently, but possibly have a better future then any of those years.
Exactly. Either way we lose BUT at least now we have a future to look forward to. We have willy and kp along with all our future picks. Time to build this franchise the right way

Some can pretend to not understand the value of this but we all know they know better. The only reason to keep up this attack on Phil is because of an agenda. If you don't like Phil that's OK, but don't pretend like you don't know how important it's been that he's drafted KP, Willy and added other young players. Don't pretend that it's not a big deal that he's protected our future picks and cap space.

The end of this season is a big deal for the future of the franchise. Today and Tomorrow's games are a key to how they approach the rest of the season IMO. Wins or Losses will determine whether this experiment continues longer or ends sooner. Do they keep up the dream of the playoffs or shut that down and fully prepare for this summer.

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